Did anyone see the waffle on Ch7 Sydney just presented about the "secret ingenious redesign" of Wild Oats in Mona Vale?
Cutting the boat in half and adding 2m of fibreglass. Lucky most people have no idea that all things being equal a longer water line length means more boat speed. Nothing clever.
ie. Whoever can pay for the biggest boat wins. If you can't pay you cant win.
Oh, and you have to pay for the diesel to run for the entire voyage to shift the keel and power the hydraulics. Dubious calling boats with those sailing boats I reckon. Wild Oats the motor yacht would be more appropriate.
It would be wonderful if the media educated themselves that the handicap race is the real race!
hahaha i know there is a couple of Chinese boats entered this year ......... i,m betting they are about 1000 mm longer that the original W/O !!
yep, bring on the real class races !!
Not to nit pick but I'm pretty sure not a shred of fiberglass was used, just the black stuff! :D
I think it has 2 Diesel engines. Smaller runs continuously for numerous systems and bigger one kicks in when needed for keel movement etc. also believe there is no manual backup.
It's all about the money....the maxi's spend millions for line honors.
Handicap for "equal rating" ? good theory but.......
But Quikpoint Azzurro is 1981 C&C 34....But they spent $3-400 000+ on her.
from the owner: "We rebuilt the entire boat, there's not one thing that's original. It was just beyond repair, so I had everything all newly fabricated and rebuilt"
Why? .....to cash in on her age rating in IRC.....you can buy a new boat from the same molds for 1/2 that. but it would come with a new boat rating.
Is not the same boat!
I think the claim that Azzuro's refit cost that much is a misquote - it was discussed on SA a while back and it's hard to see that much cost in what they did.
Secondly, a new boat from the S&S 34 lines and with the mods that Azzuro had would not come out with a 2014 age allowance - if I recall correctly from the time when I went into IRC with measurers, it would come out the average date of the series date (1967 or so, when the S&S 34 was first designed) and the launch date. Given that the age allowance is less than .001 per year, and there is a maximum (which is about 25 years, from memory) and that Azzuro was launched, there wouldn't actually be much difference - you'd get the average of 47 years series date + 0 years age date, which is very close to the maximum you are allowed. So it seems that there was no "cashing in on age date" as far as I can see.When Azzuro was launched as Shenandoah she was already modified from the original deck layout and (IIRC) in construction, so it's perfectly reasonable that she doesn't get the same age allowance as a stock S&S 34 from 1968.
Select to expand quotenods said..
It's all about the money....the maxi's spend millions for line honors.
Handicap for "equal rating" ? good theory but.......
But Quikpoint Azzurro is 1981 C&C 34....But they spent $3-400 000+ on her.
from the owner: "We rebuilt the entire boat, there's not one thing that's original. It was just beyond repair, so I had everything all newly fabricated and rebuilt"
Why? .....to cash in on her age rating in IRC.....you can buy a new boat from the same molds for 1/2 that. but it would come with a new boat rating.
Is not the same boat!
Yes, it's a bit like Granddads axe isn't it. Granddad had the same axe for 65 years. Mind you, it had had three
new heads and five new handles......but it still the same axe.
Select to expand quoteTrek said..
Did anyone see the waffle on Ch7 Sydney just presented about the "secret ingenious redesign" of Wild Oats in Mona Vale?
Cutting the boat in half and adding 2m of fibreglass. Lucky most people have no idea that all things being equal a longer water line length means more boat speed. Nothing clever.
ie. Whoever can pay for the biggest boat wins. If you can't pay you cant win.
Oh, and you have to pay for the diesel to run for the entire voyage to shift the keel and power the hydraulics. Dubious calling boats with those sailing boats I reckon. Wild Oats the motor yacht would be more appropriate.
It would be wonderful if the media educated themselves that the handicap race is the real race!
Not true Trek, WOXI beat Comanche last year. These guys that spend their millions on magnificent boats, sometimes just for the pure joy of watching other people sail are truly visionary. I for one think they should be applauded.
If you sat on a maxi or even a fifty footer with hydraulics doing 20 plus knots you'd be left in no doubt that you were on a sailing boat. I know its a far cry from what we do but credit where credits due.
It's all good. At least they are spending someones money in the industry and we all benefit down the line. My boat did 5 Hobarts under the previous owners and I enjoy the bits they spent top dollar on.
With respect to your opinions, I think the 100s are bad for sailing overall. They created a lot of dissension among the fleet, and only stayed in when one owner stacked a CYCA meeting by paying for memberships for his crew, or so it was said by those who should know. The same owner then gave up racing powered 100' canters and went back to a smaller fixed keeler - it turned out that even he did not enjoy them.
The fact that the 100 footers finish so far ahead of the smaller boats is probably one of the big causes of the collapse of the small-boat offshore fleet. Back in the day, a typical 30 footer like a Currawong was about 2/3 as fast as the maxis. Today, to be 2/3 as fast as a maxi you pretty much need a 50 foot Grand Prix boat like a TP52, because the maxis are now so much bigger and faster.
So we have had a huge change in the fleet composition. No longer do you get people like carpenters, schoolteachers and academics racing ageing 30-34 footers. No longer do you get a viable fleet of 30-36 footers - now they are almost completely gone. With respect to Shane, many of us can't see much point in doing what he does because he's so far away from the rest of the fleet that he doesn't get anything like decent boat on boat racing.
And those who do sail a small boat to Hobart will find a very different scene - the big boats have finished so far ahead that by the time the smaller boats arrive, the party is over, the presentations can have partly been done, and the big boats have gone home. Contrast that to the days when a teenage kid on his first Hobart could spend New Years Eve touring the line honours winner.
The 100 foot canters have been the least successful maxi type since the second world war, in terms of generating fleet numbers, so there is nothing like the old maxi circuit that we had for years. And offshore racing fleets in Australia are generally way down, which is surely partly down to the fact that you need a 40 footer to hang on to the tail of the main fleet these days, and you still finish miles behind the line honours boats.
For the past 20 years the gap between the "grand prix" and what normal people can afford has been opening up hugely in sailing, and the sport's popularity is dropping rapidly. The more popular "equipment intensive' sports are ones where there is little if any difference between good club-level gear and "grand prix" gear.
And as far as motors going, while I haven't done any mono offshore racing for years, I did sail some of the top boats when they first allowed movable ballast, and I hated having the engine running. I can understand the appeal of these boats to some, but IMHO overall they are bad for the sport.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said...
With respect to your opinions, I think the 100s are bad for sailing overall. They created a lot of dissension among the fleet, and only stayed in when one owner stacked a CYCA meeting by paying for memberships for his crew, or so it was said by those who should know. The same owner then gave up racing powered 100' canters and went back to a smaller fixed keeler - it turned out that even he did not enjoy them.
The fact that the 100 footers finish so far ahead of the smaller boats is probably one of the big causes of the collapse of the small-boat offshore fleet. Back in the day, a typical 30 footer like a Currawong was about 2/3 as fast as the maxis. Today, to be 2/3 as fast as a maxi you pretty much need a 50 foot Grand Prix boat like a TP52, because the maxis are now so much bigger and faster.
So we have had a huge change in the fleet composition. No longer do you get people like carpenters, schoolteachers and academics racing ageing 30-34 footers. No longer do you get a viable fleet of 30-36 footers - now they are almost completely gone. With respect to Shane, many of us can't see much point in doing what he does because he's so far away from the rest of the fleet that he doesn't get anything like decent boat on boat racing.
And those who do sail a small boat to Hobart will find a very different scene - the big boats have finished so far ahead that by the time the smaller boats arrive, the party is over, the presentations can have partly been done, and the big boats have gone home. Contrast that to the days when a teenage kid on his first Hobart could spend New Years Eve touring the line honours winner.
The 100 foot canters have been the least successful maxi type since the second world war, in terms of generating fleet numbers, so there is nothing like the old maxi circuit that we had for years. And offshore racing fleets in Australia are generally way down, which is surely partly down to the fact that you need a 40 footer to hang on to the tail of the main fleet these days, and you still finish miles behind the line honours boats.
For the past 20 years the gap between the "grand prix" and what normal people can afford has been opening up hugely in sailing, and the sport's popularity is dropping rapidly. The more popular "equipment intensive' sports are ones where there is little if any difference between good club-level gear and "grand prix" gear.
And as far as motors going, while I haven't done any mono offshore racing for years, I did sail some of the top boats when they first allowed movable ballast, and I hated having the engine running. I can understand the appeal of these boats to some, but IMHO overall they are bad for the sport.
+1
I used to watch Sydney /Hobart never bother any more.
When a sailing boat under racing conditions has to run a diesel motor to operate anything it should be disqualified. end of story
As far as I'm concerned the motor is assisting propulsion.
So bring on the Catamarans verses the powered sailing keelers I might watch one race.
And a really big plus 1 for the thread above
Perhaps they should reduce the legal size of the Sydney Hobart boats along with no motors are to run in the race what so ever
unless your not finishing the race
Not to mention the "celebrity sailors"
Yeah, they've put in the hard yards (not), straight onto a boat that makes the race virtually an overnighter !
I guess I'm only jealous !!!
I have never sailed on a modern maxi but i did get the chance to have a day on one of the older 77 foot Ragamuffins and it is hard work doing basic stuff on them that is easy on a small boat (raising sails, sheeting head sails) so i understand why they use powered winches etc
I also never realised just how big the 100 footers were until i move to Tassie and saw them in the flesh as they finished in Hobart
I personally prefer to see mono's race over multi's
Regards Don
Yep, it's hard work racing a maxi without powered winches - but Comanche did it when she finished second over the line in the Hobart last year. Secondly, if people don't want to handle high loads, why did they get 100 footers? Thirdly, yes, sailing a 100 footer with manual power may be hard - for the two days they take to get to Hobart. Those on the smaller boats suffer fatigue for much longer.
Some people claim that you can't sail a 100 without power but that is obviously not true - they got J Classers and even bigger schooners around short courses without manual power. Personally I'm more against powered canters, though.
At the moment, the use of power increases your rating, which is not something that the maxis care about. Let's propose a different system, where everyone gets to use the same amount of fossil fuels. If you want to run the engine to cant your keel, fine. If you want to run the engine to power your winches, fine. If you want to have a powerboat to meet you off Flinders to pass on board fresh crew and a nice meal (which, like using powered winches is just another way of using external forces to reduce fatigue), fine - and if you want to just run your main engine to power the boat through any calm patches, that's fine too. 
Select to expand quoteTrek said..
Did anyone see the waffle on Ch7 Sydney just presented about the "secret ingenious redesign" of Wild Oats in Mona Vale?
Cutting the boat in half and adding 2m of fibreglass. Lucky most people have no idea that all things being equal a longer water line length means more boat speed. Nothing clever.
ie. Whoever can pay for the biggest boat wins. If you can't pay you cant win.
Oh, and you have to pay for the diesel to run for the entire voyage to shift the keel and power the hydraulics. Dubious calling boats with those sailing boats I reckon. Wild Oats the motor yacht would be more appropriate.
It would be wonderful if the media educated themselves that the handicap race is the real race!
I'm not going to join the argument about the engines running, But I think "Wild Oats have added 2m into the bow and removed 2m from the stern, effectively moving the mast/keels back and making some shape changes. It's still 100ft long.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
Yep, it's hard work racing a maxi without powered winches - but Comanche did it when she finished second over the line in the Hobart last year. Secondly, if people don't want to handle high loads, why did they get 100 footers? Thirdly, yes, sailing a 100 footer with manual power may be hard - for the two days they take to get to Hobart. Those on the smaller boats suffer fatigue for much longer.
Some people claim that you can't sail a 100 without power but that is obviously not true - they got J Classers and even bigger schooners around short courses without manual power. Personally I'm more against powered canters, though.
At the moment, the use of power increases your rating, which is not something that the maxis care about. Let's propose a different system, where everyone gets to use the same amount of fossil fuels. If you want to run the engine to cant your keel, fine. If you want to run the engine to power your winches, fine. If you want to have a powerboat to meet you off Flinders to pass on board fresh crew and a nice meal (which, like using powered winches is just another way of using external forces to reduce fatigue), fine - and if you want to just run your main engine to power the boat through any calm patches, that's fine too.
thats amazing !!! i would have thought it almost impossible to race a yacht like that without powered winches .
I agree it is pure joy watch these guys sail boats like a great adventure. It is eye soothing to see them zip zap zoom around the corner with such ease. Simply amazing!! I saw these in sports news australia(www.puntsports.com.au/) .
Ando I thought I blundered so didnt say anything. But sadly not. Reported on Ch10 Sydney more waffle about the clever Wild Oats design improvements.
In the story they confirmed that they have simply added boat length in front of the mast which will give them more water line length hence boat speed. They didn't chop the back shorter.
The boats racing against them that haven't spent that $5m (hard to believe??!!) are now at an immediate disadvantage compared to last year.
Hi Trek
I can positively confirm that the boat went into the chop shop 100' long and came out 100' long. The back was cut off and that length added to the length added to the bow to shift mast, keel and rudder back a few meters.
OK thanks, I stand corrected. The news story didnt say that. They just showed one splice in the hull in front of the mast.
Select to expand quoteHG02 said..
I used to watch Sydney /Hobart never bother any more.
When a sailing boat under racing conditions has to run a diesel motor to operate anything it should be disqualified. end of story
As far as I'm concerned the motor is assisting propulsion.
So bring on the Catamarans verses the powered sailing keelers I might watch one race.
And a really big plus 1 for the thread above
Perhaps they should reduce the legal size of the Sydney Hobart boats along with no motors are to run in the race what so ever
unless your not finishing the race
Hi HG,
I agree with you, but then again, is there wriggle room allowable? On my boat it is recommended to start the engine when lowering or raising the keel (electric/hydraulic). I don't see that as enhancing it's sailing performance, so that to me is acceptable, or no?
well i,m looking forward to watching the start and spasmodically following the progress on the yacht tracker .
the line honors race is a bit like the technology race , but that's ok as well .
the handicap race is still the pure sailing tussle !!!
love it !
The whole race has become like the Americas Cup, it means nothing to the general sailing community.
To the point of running engines all the time for power, I agree its just not what sailing is about but thats what gets them over the line at that speed.
I have sailed against Skandia based in Melbourne a few years back. It is an absolute behemoth in light winds it swallowed our wind and spat it out behind its fast hull.
A lot of sailors who have worked on these boats have gone back to Traditional Wooden boats for the handicap win. Sean Langman sailing Maluka is a great example of this.
Handicap boats are way cheaper and much more of a challenge to get to the finish.
If they want it to be more like Formula one they should go to Multihulls. Its funny they did have multihulls do a exibition race and halved the race record (Not much media coverage of that).
Select to expand quoteSandS said..
well i,m looking forward to watching the start and spasmodically following the progress on the yacht tracker .
the line honors race is a bit like the technology race , but that's ok as well .
the handicap race is still the pure sailing tussle !!!
love it !
What is the url for this site please.... the yacht tracker??
