I think it's over 25 knots! Both boats need a bit of mainsail even if it's a third reef. I would prefer to be sailing the classic.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
I think it's over 25 knots! Both boats need a bit of mainsail even if it's a third reef. I would prefer to be sailing the classic.
I thought it was over 25kts to .
What's you thoughts on needing the main Romana ,
Select to expand quoteBROWNSMTRACE said..Ramona said..
I think it's over 25 knots! Both boats need a bit of mainsail even if it's a third reef. I would prefer to be sailing the classic.
I thought it was over 25kts to .
What's you thoughts on needing the main Romana ,
Just balance and stability for the rig. Few rolls in the headsail and 3rd reef would be more comfortable.
It doesn't seem to show much. The cruddy sail on the Comfortina would make a significant difference in the relative performance, itself.
The Comfortina appears to be rolling more but every floating vessel has a particular wavelength in which the roll induced by the sea matches the boat's natural rolling moment. It could be that this vid was taken in a seaway that matched the beamier Comfortina's natural rolling moment. If they passed over a bank and the wavelength changed, the classic could start rolling more too.
Classic style boats go well on a breezy reach - we've always known that. But anyone can take one video at one time, with one other boat sailing at one angle in one wind strength, and make it look as if it means something more.
I would prefer to be putting the kettle on down below in the classic than bouncing about in the "Comfortina".
What on earth would anyone be doing out there in anything other than a classic wooden yacht??
What on earth would anyone be doing out there in anything other than a classic wooden yacht??
The caption in the vid says the wooden boat was 11m long. Assuming she's as fast as a KR class (which are similar and popular around the same area) in normal conditions on a 12 hour passage the 32fter will be on anchor with the kettle going while the 36 ft classic, which has less room down below, will still be bouncing around at sea.
I hope to start the restoration of my wooden yacht next month, but more modern designs definitely have their strengths.
What on earth would anyone be doing out there in anything other than a classic wooden yacht??
Well, the alternative to " out there" on that particular boat is sanding and varnishing, isn't it?
Nothing better than getting a old long keel yacht humming just above hull speed hmmmmm 
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
The caption in the vid says the wooden boat was 11m long. Assuming she's as fast as a KR class (which are similar and popular around the same area) in normal conditions on a 12 hour passage the 32fter will be on anchor with the kettle going while the 36 ft classic, which has less room down below, will still be bouncing around at sea.
I hope to start the restoration of my wooden yacht next month, but more modern designs definitely have their strengths.
i think you may be wrong there in a fresh breeze ior style boats similar to whats in the video of our size normally finish astern of us if you dont believe me check the Gladstone results for this year for pagan tasman seabird 1962 and roller coaster 1980s S&S 36 same length 15 to 35 knot mainly following breeze and beam reach we were drunk by the time they tied up
ims boats of the same size in race trim normally in front by 10 to 15 percent European production race trim same size 5 to 10 percent depending on wind strength
and we were 2 minuites behind jennue 36 10 minuites behind Camille 36 foot long keel
Select to expand quoteboty said..Chris 249 said..
The caption in the vid says the wooden boat was 11m long. Assuming she's as fast as a KR class (which are similar and popular around the same area) in normal conditions on a 12 hour passage the 32fter will be on anchor with the kettle going while the 36 ft classic, which has less room down below, will still be bouncing around at sea.
I hope to start the restoration of my wooden yacht next month, but more modern designs definitely have their strengths.
i think you may be wrong there in a fresh breeze ior style boats similar to whats in the video of our size normally finish astern of us if you dont believe me check the Gladstone results for this year for pagan tasman seabird 1962 and roller coaster 1980s S&S 36 same length 15 to 35 knot mainly following breeze and beam reach we were drunk by the time they tied up
ims boats of the same size in race trim normally in front by 10 to 15 percent European production race trim same size 5 to 10 percent depending on wind strength
and we were 2 minuites behind jennue 36 10 minuites behind Camille 36 foot long keel
And if you want to see a super fast old style yacht that was only 26ft sailed as far South as Antarctica was enginless and unlike the Pardey's stayed out of the limelight where extremely humble and raced the hell out of their Falmouth cutter look up Curlew IMHO the best sailing couple ever.
They have a coffee table book which you can still buy with the most beautiful photos .
P.S Gaff rigged to and regularly beat modern yachts
Here is a Little article on Curlew.
www.cruisingworld.com/how/we-uncluttered-our-cutter/
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
The caption in the vid says the wooden boat was 11m long. Assuming she's as fast as a KR class (which are similar and popular around the same area) in normal conditions on a 12 hour passage the 32fter will be on anchor with the kettle going while the 36 ft classic, which has less room down below, will still be bouncing around at sea.
I hope to start the restoration of my wooden yacht next month, but more modern designs definitely have their strengths.
Any pics of restoration project?
Select to expand quoteboty said..Chris 249 said..
The caption in the vid says the wooden boat was 11m long. Assuming she's as fast as a KR class (which are similar and popular around the same area) in normal conditions on a 12 hour passage the 32fter will be on anchor with the kettle going while the 36 ft classic, which has less room down below, will still be bouncing around at sea.
I hope to start the restoration of my wooden yacht next month, but more modern designs definitely have their strengths.
i think you may be wrong there in a fresh breeze ior style boats similar to whats in the video of our size normally finish astern of us if you dont believe me check the Gladstone results for this year for pagan tasman seabird 1962 and roller coaster 1980s S&S 36 same length 15 to 35 knot mainly following breeze and beam reach we were drunk by the time they tied up
ims boats of the same size in race trim normally in front by 10 to 15 percent European production race trim same size 5 to 10 percent depending on wind strength
and we were 2 minuites behind jennue 36 10 minuites behind Camille 36 foot long keel
In a fresh breeze, yes good and well-sailed classics like yours can hang in with some IOR boats on a reach. But I referred to "normal conditions", which would include upwind in light airs, square running in a breeze, etc. That information about the comparative speed of an 11m KR yacht compared to a Comfortina 32, by the way, comes from the official German handicap list. The classes have been around for eons and the handicap would come from lots of experience.
We can't really take much notice of instances where one good old boat (yours) sails well against one or two newer boats - I've seen a 420 go past an 18 Foot Skiff but that doesn't mean that the 420 is a faster design than an 18 Footer. You're obviously sailing your boat a lot better than the S&S 36 or the Jeanneau. I've beaten an S&S 36 across the line in my 1968 28 footer, but they were just sailing badly. When they were new and well sailed they did well - one of them beat Ragamuffin/Spirit of Koomooloo across the line in the Hobart!
I sailed the S&S Finnisterre-type Sunstone, which is arguably the most successful "classic" in the past 30+ years with the possible exception of Dorade. We could never keep up with a WELL SAILED modern boat of the same length, even a cruiser-racer. It's been the same story ever since I was a kid and we were NSW Clansman champions, but couldn't beat the top Bonbridge 27 or half tonners. As another example look at Dorade - one of the world's great yachts, very keenly sailed, and yet although she's 53 feet long even in her good races she gets beaten over the line by standard production 36 foot cruiser/racers. In her last Fastnet she finished second in class on IRC but was eight hours behind a Benny 47.7, which is hardly a speedster.
I love the classics but good new boats are quicker.
Select to expand quoteParkster said..Chris 249 said..
The caption in the vid says the wooden boat was 11m long. Assuming she's as fast as a KR class (which are similar and popular around the same area) in normal conditions on a 12 hour passage the 32fter will be on anchor with the kettle going while the 36 ft classic, which has less room down below, will still be bouncing around at sea.
I hope to start the restoration of my wooden yacht next month, but more modern designs definitely have their strengths.
Any pics of restoration project?
Maybe when it starts - I've got to patch her up so she can be floated off the trailer so it can be re-worked. Not fun.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..boty said..Chris 249 said..
The caption in the vid says the wooden boat was 11m long. Assuming she's as fast as a KR class (which are similar and popular around the same area) in normal conditions on a 12 hour passage the 32fter will be on anchor with the kettle going while the 36 ft classic, which has less room down below, will still be bouncing around at sea.
I hope to start the restoration of my wooden yacht next month, but more modern designs definitely have their strengths.
i think you may be wrong there in a fresh breeze ior style boats similar to whats in the video of our size normally finish astern of us if you dont believe me check the Gladstone results for this year for pagan tasman seabird 1962 and roller coaster 1980s S&S 36 same length 15 to 35 knot mainly following breeze and beam reach we were drunk by the time they tied up
ims boats of the same size in race trim normally in front by 10 to 15 percent European production race trim same size 5 to 10 percent depending on wind strength
and we were 2 minuites behind jennue 36 10 minuites behind Camille 36 foot long keel
In a fresh breeze, yes good and well-sailed classics like yours can hang in with some IOR boats on a reach. But I referred to "normal conditions", which would include upwind in light airs, square running in a breeze, etc. That information about the comparative speed of an 11m KR yacht compared to a Comfortina 32, by the way, comes from the official German handicap list. The classes have been around for eons and the handicap would come from lots of experience.
We can't really take much notice of instances where one good old boat (yours) sails well against one or two newer boats - I've seen a 420 go past an 18 Foot Skiff but that doesn't mean that the 420 is a faster design than an 18 Footer. You're obviously sailing your boat a lot better than the S&S 36 or the Jeanneau. I've beaten an S&S 36 across the line in my 1968 28 footer, but they were just sailing badly. When they were new and well sailed they did well - one of them beat Ragamuffin/Spirit of Koomooloo across the line in the Hobart!
I sailed the S&S Finnisterre-type Sunstone, which is arguably the most successful "classic" in the past 30+ years with the possible exception of Dorade. We could never keep up with a WELL SAILED modern boat of the same length, even a cruiser-racer. It's been the same story ever since I was a kid and we were NSW Clansman champions, but couldn't beat the top Bonbridge 27 or half tonners. As another example look at Dorade - one of the world's great yachts, very keenly sailed, and yet although she's 53 feet long even in her good races she gets beaten over the line by standard production 36 foot cruiser/racers. In her last Fastnet she finished second in class on IRC but was eight hours behind a Benny 47.7, which is hardly a speedster.
I love the classics but good new boats are quicker.
thanks for the pat on the back about my sailing skills but im not that good we did the paddock from Indian head to s2 Gladstone without a kite as we had blown 2 out in 20 minutes and i wanted 1 left for the run up the drain into Gladstone our irc result was less than stella with a 14 out of 34 boats with wistari another classic wining div 2 irc and placing 4 overall 6 hours in front of us
as to beating koomers we also have done that on 2 occasions in bay races though a fabulous boat (god rest her soul)and very well sailed she seemed to have patchy performance downwind in light air
have only sailed against dorade once not on my own boat but was astounded by her performance and have a mate who crewed on her at hammo he said she is very quick but bogs down badly in heavy chop giving inconsistent results
my point still stands these classic designs still give amazing performance against modern vessels the 2 boats i pointed out for gladstone i consider well sailed though the s&s had less race practice pre race was still sailed well but as is typical of ior boats was losing control in the medium to heavy running the jenneau a regular race boat who normaly beats us in light air always has trouble once the breeze kicks in weather up or downwind
in conclusion it is easy to cherry pick but results talk as i have pointed out
There's no way I'm cherry picking - in fact I'm doing the opposite and using data from hundreds of boats, years of races and the ORCi, IMS, IRC, LYS and PHRF rules, which include tens of thousands of boats. I can't see how using data drawn over 50 years and including some 50,000+ boats is "cherry picking".
I'm not knocking your boat at all, she's great - but just like mine, isn't as quick as good newer boats. It's been that way since 1970, when an S&S 34 (Morning Mischief) first met a Seabird (Cherana) in the Hobart and the S&S came home nine hours in front.
If the late '60s S&S 34 is slower than a late '50s Seabirds then Olin Stephens must have been a moron and the boat must have been a dog. Olin certainly wasn't a moron and the S&S 34 certainly isn't a dog.
If the S&S 34 is slower than a Seabird then the crews of Maris and Cherana must have been dills to get beaten to Hobart by 5 to 3 1/2 hours by S&S 34s in Hobarts. But they weren't dills - they scored 1st, 2nd and two 3rds in class on IMS in those races but still only once beat an S&S 34 across the line. The IMS, IRC and ORCi rules show the same thing - Seabirds are not as fast as newer boats. It's just logical.
I'm not criticising your boat by saying she's not as fast as a good well-sailed boat ten years newer, any more than I'm criticising my 1968 boat when I say she's not as fast as a good well-sailed 1978 boat, or when I say that my Laser can't beat a foiling Moth. All else being equal, new boats go faster.
All I'm saying is that we should respect other boats just as we respect our own, and appreciate their strengths.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
There's no way I'm cherry picking - in fact I'm doing the opposite and using data from hundreds of boats, years of races and the ORCi, IMS, IRC, LYS and PHRF rules, which include tens of thousands of boats. I can't see how using data drawn over 50 years and including some 50,000+ boats is "cherry picking".
I'm not knocking your boat at all, she's great - but just like mine, isn't as quick as good newer boats. It's been that way since 1970, when an S&S 34 (Morning Mischief) first met a Seabird (Cherana) in the Hobart and the S&S came home nine hours in front.
If the late '60s S&S 34 is slower than a late '50s Seabirds then Olin Stephens must have been a moron and the boat must have been a dog. Olin certainly wasn't a moron and the S&S 34 certainly isn't a dog.
If the S&S 34 is slower than a Seabird then the crews of Maris and Cherana must have been dills to get beaten to Hobart by 5 to 3 1/2 hours by S&S 34s in Hobarts. But they weren't dills - they scored 1st, 2nd and two 3rds in class on IMS in those races but still only once beat an S&S 34 across the line. The IMS, IRC and ORCi rules show the same thing - Seabirds are not as fast as newer boats. It's just logical.
I'm not criticising your boat by saying she's not as fast as a good well-sailed boat ten years newer, any more than I'm criticising my 1968 boat when I say she's not as fast as a good well-sailed 1978 boat, or when I say that my Laser can't beat a foiling Moth. All else being equal, new boats go faster.
All I'm saying is that we should respect other boats just as we respect our own, and appreciate their strengths.
I would love to get rid of the all the canting keels, generators, electric winches, super light yachts made from exotic materials , and have a Sydney Hobart race that is more accessible to the average man or woman based on their skill level not how deep your pockets are.
Rather see 5 or 10 yachts battling to the finish line with very little in it because we are all on a similar horse so to speak , and the ONLY reason a yacht is in front is because the yacht was sailed better.
I love motorbike racing but nothing more boring than seeing someone pull away miles in front .
The only people coming out in front with these new concept yachts are the builders , the Americas cup has lost the plot .
I don't know about you but watching a J class yacht powering through the ocean neck and neck is where it is for me.
A coke can can sail down wind, some of these modern yachts designed for maximum speeds down wind have trouble getting close to 60 degrees to the wind.
Having more footage of the average Joe blow sailing his 50 footer through the heads against other yachts of similar ilk is what the Sydney Hobart was all about .
Select to expand quoteBROWNSMTRACE said..Chris 249 said..
There's no way I'm cherry picking - in fact I'm doing the opposite and using data from hundreds of boats, years of races and the ORCi, IMS, IRC, LYS and PHRF rules, which include tens of thousands of boats. I can't see how using data drawn over 50 years and including some 50,000+ boats is "cherry picking".
I'm not knocking your boat at all, she's great - but just like mine, isn't as quick as good newer boats. It's been that way since 1970, when an S&S 34 (Morning Mischief) first met a Seabird (Cherana) in the Hobart and the S&S came home nine hours in front.
If the late '60s S&S 34 is slower than a late '50s Seabirds then Olin Stephens must have been a moron and the boat must have been a dog. Olin certainly wasn't a moron and the S&S 34 certainly isn't a dog.
If the S&S 34 is slower than a Seabird then the crews of Maris and Cherana must have been dills to get beaten to Hobart by 5 to 3 1/2 hours by S&S 34s in Hobarts. But they weren't dills - they scored 1st, 2nd and two 3rds in class on IMS in those races but still only once beat an S&S 34 across the line. The IMS, IRC and ORCi rules show the same thing - Seabirds are not as fast as newer boats. It's just logical.
I'm not criticising your boat by saying she's not as fast as a good well-sailed boat ten years newer, any more than I'm criticising my 1968 boat when I say she's not as fast as a good well-sailed 1978 boat, or when I say that my Laser can't beat a foiling Moth. All else being equal, new boats go faster.
All I'm saying is that we should respect other boats just as we respect our own, and appreciate their strengths.
I would love to get rid of the all the canting keels, generators, electric winches, super light yachts made from exotic materials , and have a Sydney Hobart race that is more accessible to the average man or woman based on their skill level not how deep your pockets are.
Rather see 5 or 10 yachts battling to the finish line with very little in it because we are all on a similar horse so to speak , and the ONLY reason a yacht is in front is because the yacht was sailed better.
I love motorbike racing but nothing more boring than seeing someone pull away miles in front .
The only people coming out in front with these new concept yachts are the builders , the Americas cup has lost the plot .
I don't know about you but watching a J class yacht powering through the ocean neck and neck is where it is for me.
A coke can can sail down wind, some of these modern yachts designed for maximum speeds down wind have trouble getting close to 60 degrees to the wind.
Having more footage of the average Joe blow sailing his 50 footer through the heads against other yachts of similar ilk is what the Sydney Hobart was all about .
Na, You don't really it's just a dream.
For a start your talking about one class racing for all things to be equal
and there's some great classes .
Money has always come out on top most times even back in the day in the SH and it's always been an opportunity for those such as myself to
drool over the latest available. For me the SH has never been so exciting
as it is now . 100 footers duelling up the Derwent last year. Perhaps when Condor beat Apollo by 7 secs was the best edge of the seat viewing for me but now with all the technology one can watch all the fleet 24/7 how goods that!
Beats sitting beside the wireless waiting for the 6 hour skeds for positions .
Linehaul honors is one race but there are many in the SH eg. IRC Div 4.
The duel between Chinese Easyway and Mister Lucky must have been a cracker for minor placings , almost same handicap and finishing 50 odd mins apart.
I love watching timber sailboats under full sail and admire those who pay to restore them for future generations to enjoy and wonder at the craftsmanship (Lydia) but let the grand old ladies smell the roses so to speak and enjoy retirement.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
There's no way I'm cherry picking - in fact I'm doing the opposite and using data from hundreds of boats, years of races and the ORCi, IMS, IRC, LYS and PHRF rules, which include tens of thousands of boats. I can't see how using data drawn over 50 years and including some 50,000+ boats is "cherry picking".
I'm not knocking your boat at all, she's great - but just like mine, isn't as quick as good newer boats. It's been that way since 1970, when an S&S 34 (Morning Mischief) first met a Seabird (Cherana) in the Hobart and the S&S came home nine hours in front.
If the late '60s S&S 34 is slower than a late '50s Seabirds then Olin Stephens must have been a moron and the boat must have been a dog. Olin certainly wasn't a moron and the S&S 34 certainly isn't a dog.
If the S&S 34 is slower than a Seabird then the crews of Maris and Cherana must have been dills to get beaten to Hobart by 5 to 3 1/2 hours by S&S 34s in Hobarts. But they weren't dills - they scored 1st, 2nd and two 3rds in class on IMS in those races but still only once beat an S&S 34 across the line. The IMS, IRC and ORCi rules show the same thing - Seabirds are not as fast as newer boats. It's just logical.
I'm not criticising your boat by saying she's not as fast as a good well-sailed boat ten years newer, any more than I'm criticising my 1968 boat when I say she's not as fast as a good well-sailed 1978 boat, or when I say that my Laser can't beat a foiling Moth. All else being equal, new boats go faster.
All I'm saying is that we should respect other boats just as we respect our own, and appreciate their strengths.
the strength of N SS34 is windward downwind 7 knots and out of control hobart is a windward race my point still stands
