I wonder why there was no life ring or danbuoy put over the side?? maybe its not shown in the footage.
Interesting, the skipper doesn't seem to be taking ownership of the incident.
They were mooring so fast the life bouy would be no where near the MOB.
Was Whitty even on the helm or on deck at the time? Straight after he was below talking makes you think he was off watch.
He did state the MOB broke several protocols not clipped on did not inform the helmsman what his intentions were.
Luckily the only two MOB I have been involved in were inside and we were not doing 15+knots.
Outside in big waves is a whole different story.
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..
They were mooring so fast the life bouy would be no where near the MOB.
Was Whitty even on the helm or on deck at the time? Straight after he was below talking makes you think he was off watch.
He did state the MOB broke several protocols not clipped on did not inform the helmsman what his intentions were.
Luckily the only two MOB I have been involved in were inside and we were not doing 15+knots.
Outside in big waves is a whole different story.
I don't think it maters that the buoy is not near the the MOB, The buoy will create a visual reference point in the water for the crew and for the MOB.
The skipper can't have crew just doing what they want, he is responsible for that , It is his fault the guy went over the side, he hasn't trained his crew well enough, The MOB should be kicked off the boat.
Putting a danbuoy and a life ring over the side is basic recreational skippers ticket stuff.
Skipper needs sacking too
That's one reason I have a divers rescue sausage folded up in, and attached to my inflatable lifejacket.
Select to expand quoteJolene said..twodogs1969 said..
They were mooring so fast the life bouy would be no where near the MOB.
Was Whitty even on the helm or on deck at the time? Straight after he was below talking makes you think he was off watch.
He did state the MOB broke several protocols not clipped on did not inform the helmsman what his intentions were.
Luckily the only two MOB I have been involved in were inside and we were not doing 15+knots.
Outside in big waves is a whole different story.
I don't think it maters that the buoy is not near the the MOB, The buoy will create a visual reference point in the water for the crew and for the MOB.
The skipper can't have crew just doing what they want, he is responsible for that , It is his fault the guy went over the side, he hasn't trained his crew well enough, The MOB should be kicked off the boat.
Putting a danbuoy and a life ring over the side is basic recreational skippers ticket stuff.
Skipper needs sacking too
Sorry twodogs, I did not read your post properly, You may be very correct in saying that the MOB would be no where near the life buoy,,,, as I said in a previous post "maybe its not shown in the footage."
Select to expand quoteJolene said..twodogs1969 said..
They were mooring so fast the life bouy would be no where near the MOB.
Was Whitty even on the helm or on deck at the time? Straight after he was below talking makes you think he was off watch.
He did state the MOB broke several protocols not clipped on did not inform the helmsman what his intentions were.
Luckily the only two MOB I have been involved in were inside and we were not doing 15+knots.
Outside in big waves is a whole different story.
I don't think it maters that the buoy is not near the the MOB, The buoy will create a visual reference point in the water for the crew and for the MOB.
The skipper can't have crew just doing what they want, he is responsible for that , It is his fault the guy went over the side, he hasn't trained his crew well enough, The MOB should be kicked off the boat.
Putting a danbuoy and a life ring over the side is basic recreational skippers ticket stuff.
Skipper needs sacking too
A visual reference perhaps hundreds of meters from the MOB is not going to give a very good reference. Hitting a Mob mark on the GPS would be a lot quicker and closer to the actual MOB.
On my boat with just the wife and I On board I would much prefer her to.hit an MOB mark and getting back to me as quick as possible without wasting time throwing a dan bouy hundreds of meters away then still having to furl the head sail and start the motor. At least with a gps mark she would know where to head. A more prudent thing to look at is should a PFD be worn at all times?
The skipper did say the crew member was supposed to be clipped on while performing the task. I fail to see how it is his fault if the crew did not follow protocols? Also you are not aware if Witty was even on watch.
It's a problem isn't it....if you have a crew that you don't really know, it only takes one "who won't be told" to put the whole
trip in jeopardy and raise the blood pressure of the skipper. If you're out on the blue as a skipper, just how do you cope
with the situation ??.
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..Jolene said..twodogs1969 said..
They were mooring so fast the life bouy would be no where near the MOB.
Was Whitty even on the helm or on deck at the time? Straight after he was below talking makes you think he was off watch.
He did state the MOB broke several protocols not clipped on did not inform the helmsman what his intentions were.
Luckily the only two MOB I have been involved in were inside and we were not doing 15+knots.
Outside in big waves is a whole different story.
I don't think it maters that the buoy is not near the the MOB, The buoy will create a visual reference point in the water for the crew and for the MOB.
The skipper can't have crew just doing what they want, he is responsible for that , It is his fault the guy went over the side, he hasn't trained his crew well enough, The MOB should be kicked off the boat.
Putting a danbuoy and a life ring over the side is basic recreational skippers ticket stuff.
Skipper needs sacking too
A visual reference perhaps hundreds of meters from the MOB is not going to give a very good reference. Hitting a Mob mark on the GPS would be a lot quicker and closer to the actual MOB.
On my boat with just the wife and I On board I would much prefer her to.hit an MOB mark and getting back to me as quick as possible without wasting time throwing a dan bouy hundreds of meters away then still having to furl the head sail and start the motor. At least with a gps mark she would know where to head. A more prudent thing to look at is should a PFD be worn at all times?
The skipper did say the crew member was supposed to be clipped on while performing the task. I fail to see how it is his fault if the crew did not follow protocols? Also you are not aware if Witty was even on watch.
I think anything thrown into the water is better than nothing regardless of the range from the MOB, Even a weekend news paper can help and yes , a MOB mark on a gps is great but it should be used in conjunction with the equipment that physically helps, not all gps equipment calculate current and wind drift.
It doesn't matter if Witty was on watch or not,,, if he is the man ultimately responsible for the crews lives,,, he owns it.
Looked pretty well drilled. 7 minutes is pretty good, but I bet their procedure would have been different at night, possibly use a DAN buoy... that said, had the conditions been worse, or has it been after dark the MOB would have been more likely to follow safety procedures. In this case, (many) lesson learned, all's well that ends well.
OK, it's a fully crewed racing yacht; but I cannot see a single safety principal in use here.
No lifejackets.
No tethers.
No pushpit or stern lifelines.
No decent footwear or bright colours.
No clear leader.
I keep harking back to what we learnt on Skip Novak's yacht,'Pelagic'. Standard procedure for MOB was:
Spotter does nothing but shout alarm and point to last sighting and keeps doing that.
Of course, hit MOB button.
Throw everything that floats over the side to leave a trail near POB.
(Sounds a bit dramatic, but we are talking of Drake Passage.)
And then my technique is: Gybe .. sail below POB .. tack .. pick up POB while luffing/hove to on original tack.
For this to work for short-handed will involve a fair bit of multi-tasking - but it's better than the alternative!
should throw as much floating crap over the side as possible !!! its in all the training ...... the did have a pointer there though ...
i would have thought L jackets on while on deck !!
The video starts after MOB event when everyone has been called up on deck for the tack back, hence lack of shirts/shoes I think. A tack would be less risky than a gybe on those boats. It looks like they then ease off and would have back tracked below their prior track before coming up for the rescue.
The girl spotter says something about "yellow" "yellow thing", so likely a dan buoy or something had been thrown and that is what she was spotting until they then saw the MOB.
Another girl then has a tablet thing which is probably for the GPS MOB position and track line. I wonder if there is a MOB button at the helm? I'd presume so?
The outrigger that he dropped from is shown when he is hauled back onboard, you can see it on the other side of the boat, near the stern.
Thethers when going out on an outrigger in that situation would be interesting, possibly more likely to hasten your demise should you drop in the water. A halyard maybe? Life jacket, AIS, PLB, no brainer!
I reckon it was pretty much a text book recovery from a silly error.
I have to say that with the advent of the inflatable life jackets there really is no excuse not to wear one at all times whilst on a boat they are barely noticeable to wear and don't interfere with doing tasks at all, unlike the old style life jackets we had before them.
Select to expand quoteBruski068 said..
I have to say that with the advent of the inflatable life jackets there really is no excuse not to wear one at all times whilst on a boat they are barely noticeable to wear and don't interfere with doing tasks at all, unlike the old style life jackets we had before them.
Not the same when your wearing one every day for several months. The ones we buy would not stand up to that sort of treatment.
I can see the day PFD'S are going to become mandatory for all offshore races while on deck. The wife and I have crewsaver 290's with PLB'S , intergrated harness ,spray hoods, two crotch straps and hammer inflation while they a lot more bulky then the standard PFD they are actually reasonably comfortable to wear and in no time you don't actually know you are wearing them. One thing though is they are a pain in the add to take on and off when you want to add or remove layers of clothing.
As an ageing single hander, wearing a harnessed PFD(SecumarPro or BalticRace) at all times while out of the cockpit inshore and at all times while on the high seas, l think I could give a hint or two when it is a total pain to wear a harnessed PFD. All this contrary to some demands and allegations!
Auto PFD's regularly go off when spray hits the boat in rough seas or freak waves. Even in heavy rain.
This is a fact, and those should be avoided by competent crews keeping them for visitors who don't leave the cockpit at all.
The manual ones are good to wear on the bow but when the going gets rough and one is obliged to work on his knees or crawl along on his stomach the firing chord of the west gets caught on any protrusion or lines flopping around in the wind like whips, unless well tucked in.
Once the luffing jib clew hit my west and the zip blew open and the airbag ended up flopping in the wind but not firing the cylinder.
It could be very difficult to go forth with a tether attached crossing the lee sheet(s) while the tether is being slid along the jack line. And this is on a cruiser at 6-7 knots not a racing yacht at 18-20 knots.
I understand why pros like at the VOR are not wearing neither PFD's nor harnesses 24/7. It would just be simply impractical.
As far as Scallywag's mishap is concerned, l see the situation as unfortunate and perhaps avoidable but handled with professional aplomb and Witty's public hanging on arrival at HK perhaps could be postponed.
It was actually the talk we had with you that night which convinced us to buy better Pfd's.
The Hammer inflates are different to the normal auto they require you to be actually submerged and it is the pressure that fires it not being wet. There is arguments for both auto and Manuel inflation. My thought is the chance if I fall overboard I am going to hit my head a PFD is not much help if I am unconscous and can't fire it. I to have seen the auto go off from spray that's why we spent the extra for the Hammer inflation.
Well, l am really glad you listened! I hope it never comes to the test of the truth of it.
The two wests l use - inshore and offshore - are both auto-manual so l can modify them in a flash according to the requirements.
In my opinion the cheaper PFD's on the market are NOT ADEQUATE TO SAVE LIVES in demanding situations.
Especially not the ones distributed in the "new for old" campaign by Maritime!!!
The standards are inadequate the design and materials inferior, purely concocted to satisfy a political or safety campaign - showing "we care about your safety" justifying their existence, not seriously saving lives.
It is in line with the half arsed way our leaders approach most subjects where a simple legislation would put things right.
Like PFD's should not be sold without crotch straps,
Like mobile phones should not be sold without hands free car kits,
Like quad bikes should not be sold without welded safety bars...and the list goes on and on.
At a MAST information night I went to a few months ago the said in Tassie most drownings occur in good weather with the person not to far from the boat or home
They said that in good weather people don't bother wearing PFD's and fall in the water (some of them are blokes peeing over the stern) and when they hit the cold water there is not a lot of time available before they are unable to help themselves back on whereas in bad weather most people will wear them
I have a stormy jacket with removable sleeves, internal harness and crotch straps and most of the times it is cool enough that you would be wearing a jacket anyway so I just put it on before I leave home either with or without the sleeves on https://www.stormylifejackets.com.au/product/stormy-life-jacket-with-harness-150n/
It also has a water activated strobe fitted that has gone off a couple of times when I have been wet but the jacket has not gone off as yet
Regards Don
Its all about personal risk.
What are you willing to take? What do other people think is appropriate?
Sailing has its risks. So do a lot of other types of sports and work roles. Its what makes the adventure fun for some people, that there are risks. For others it is not fun.
Personally I love riskier types of sport and work and go insane without it. For these people its probably the reason they signed up. We cannot disregard that fact. If they so choose to live that way who are we to criticise. If they die trying and enjoying the risks then they die with honour and not somewhere with unlived dreams and regrets.
