Hey.
Read a bunch on here while looking for recommendations, which would always start another round of internet searching. Tons of tips of course. I ended up settling on one that is not very common and not really seen mentioned here either or anywhere else really. Surveyor lined up for next week, so hopefully all goes well we will be on to a new adventure. We are new to it all and expect to take it very slowly while we learn the ropes.
Cheers.
Select to expand quoteJode5 said..
Hopefully it all goes well. Is it a centre or aft cockpit version?
It's a centre cockpit version.
A little more about the Citation 34 taken from another listing. Thought I'd spread what I find as there really isn't much info around that I can find. It's a sales spiel so may need filtering. The one I am looking at is set up pretty close to this description it seems.
"This yacht is ideal for coastal cruising " "Several Citations have circumnavigated, proving the vessel to be a great Blue Water Cruising boat. Easily sailed single handed, The Citation 34 has traditional lines with high bow and canoe stern, making her an excellent sea boat. The hull is a one-piece GRP integral design with encased lead long keel and skeg-hung rudder. The cutter rig with furling headsail and fully battened mainsail can be easily handled from the cockpit.
The yacht is set up as a cutter rig with a strong bow-sprit, bob-stay and furling masthead headsail. An inner forestay allows for a Yankee that provides extra drive on the reach and good stability in heavy weather instead of using a reef headsail."
"loves a reach and often cruises at 8/10 knots whilst very comfortably heeled. She points well for a cruising boat with a long keel and often out performs bigger and more performance rigged boats. Downwind sailing is fast and easy to control with 12 knots achieved on occasions"
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
Cruises at 8 to 10 knots! I would pay to see that!
hahaha. Me too, hence why I said sales spiel needing filtering.
I'll be happy if it just sails ok and feels ok, not that I have much of anything to compare it to so probably would not feel the difference anyway.
i have worked on a few of these and they seemed a simple honest boat light osmosis though nothing to stress about i would think performance wise 6.2 knots uphill tacking through 90 with good sails and a feathering prop would be acheievabel and ithink driving hard down wind she would track well with the longish keel and fairly flat sections and i could belive hitting 12 knots but it would need to be a good day to average 8 to 10
Select to expand quoteboty said..
i have worked on a few of these and they seemed a simple honest boat light osmosis though nothing to stress about i would think performance wise 6.2 knots uphill tacking through 90 with good sails and a feathering prop would be acheievabel and ithink driving hard down wind she would track well with the longish keel and fairly flat sections and i could belive hitting 12 knots but it would need to be a good day to average 8 to 10
Thanks for the input. I find it all very interesting and am keen to experience it first hand but I really don't have much of a frame of reference, so I am not sure how that compares to anything really but it sounds ok to me.
Select to expand quoteboty said..
i have worked on a few of these and they seemed a simple honest boat light osmosis though nothing to stress about i would think performance wise 6.2 knots uphill tacking through 90 with good sails and a feathering prop would be acheievabel and ithink driving hard down wind she would track well with the longish keel and fairly flat sections and i could belive hitting 12 knots but it would need to be a good day to average 8 to 10
Hull speed is expressed as 1.34 X the square root of LWL. I have not checked but I would guess the LWL of a Citation as about 30 feet.
I may very well be wrong but isn't hull speed really only relevant when motoring.
To windward most if not all displacement boats will go nowhere near hullspeed but on a reach and a moderate breeze will do well over hullspeed.
The maximum speed I have recorded on my boat is 15.08 knts twice hullspeed. But granted it was surfing. ??
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..
I may very well be wrong but isn't hull speed really only relevant when motoring.
To windward most if not all displacement boats will go nowhere near hullspeed but on a reach and a moderate breeze will do well over hullspeed.
The maximum speed I have recorded on my boat is 15.08 knts twice hullspeed. But granted it was surfing. ??
No. It's relevant for all displacement hulls. Some motor boats can semi plane but takes a lot of horsepower. Older yachts that don't plane are stuck at hull speed with the occasional surf. Want to go faster buy a longer boat.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..twodogs1969 said..
I may very well be wrong but isn't hull speed really only relevant when motoring.
To windward most if not all displacement boats will go nowhere near hullspeed but on a reach and a moderate breeze will do well over hullspeed.
The maximum speed I have recorded on my boat is 15.08 knts twice hullspeed. But granted it was surfing. ??
No. It's relevant for all displacement hulls. Some motor boats can semi plane but takes a lot of horsepower. Older yachts that don't plane are stuck at hull speed with the occasional surf. Want to go faster buy a longer boat.
My hullspeed is I think 7.4knts
In 15 knts and not surfing I can easily surpass hullspeed. Several times I have hit over 9 while on a reach not surfing.
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..Ramona said..twodogs1969 said..
I may very well be wrong but isn't hull speed really only relevant when motoring.
To windward most if not all displacement boats will go nowhere near hullspeed but on a reach and a moderate breeze will do well over hullspeed.
The maximum speed I have recorded on my boat is 15.08 knts twice hullspeed. But granted it was surfing. ??
No. It's relevant for all displacement hulls. Some motor boats can semi plane but takes a lot of horsepower. Older yachts that don't plane are stuck at hull speed with the occasional surf. Want to go faster buy a longer boat.
My hullspeed is I think 7.4knts
In 15 knts and not surfing I can easily surpass hullspeed. Several times I have hit over 9 while on a reach not surfing.
That's damn fast for a Mottle 33. My hull speed is about 5.2 knots but for planning purposes I use 4 knots. Hence the term 4 knot ****box which is the term used to to describe older style yachts under about 35 feet.
I just took this unfortunately yesterday's run has gone but I averaged 6.46 Taylors bay to botany bay yesterday. The 4.66 is the average over 824nm so includes a fair amount of slowersailing as well
Select to expand quoteRamona said..boty said..
i have worked on a few of these and they seemed a simple honest boat light osmosis though nothing to stress about i would think performance wise 6.2 knots uphill tacking through 90 with good sails and a feathering prop would be acheievabel and ithink driving hard down wind she would track well with the longish keel and fairly flat sections and i could belive hitting 12 knots but it would need to be a good day to average 8 to 10
Hull speed is expressed as 1.34 X the square root of LWL. I have not checked but I would guess the LWL of a Citation as about 30 feet.
hull speed only applies to ior style where the tucked stern stalls and the boat wipes out to a broach or very heavy displacement (pre war style slack bilge ) and even these can be surfed through by a hot crew
I have never understood how catamarans which don't plane can achieve speeds much higher than hull speed.
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..
I just took this unfortunately yesterday's run has gone but I averaged 6.46 Taylors bay to botany bay yesterday. The 4.66 is the average over 824nm so includes a fair amount of slowersailing as well
Hi Twodogs, is that a true max speed of 15.08 knots for a Mottle 33.....
Bloody hell, that moment was either "hold my beer and watch this", or scary as fu@k..
Select to expand quoteMadmouse said..
I have never understood how catamarans which don't plane can achieve speeds much higher than hull speed.
Hull speed is the point where the drag created by the bow and stern waves rises sharply, and because of their very slender hulls cats don't make bow and stern waves that are significant in size. The drag of the waves does rise, but it's so low that it can't be discerned. When they get more power in a gust they just accelerate.
Where cats lose out a bit is that their wetted surface remains fairly high because of the deep and narrow hulls and the fact that they don't really plane well like dinghies, so they don't lift out of the water and reduce their wetted surface at high speeds.
It's funny that people traditionally think that cats (and windsurfers) are downwind flyers whereas these days it's often the other way around - the cats and boards have less drag so they can carry efficient sails upwind and go well, but they can lose out downwind because the monos can carry bigger kites and be more powered up.Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..
I may very well be wrong but isn't hull speed really only relevant when motoring.
To windward most if not all displacement boats will go nowhere near hullspeed but on a reach and a moderate breeze will do well over hullspeed.
The maximum speed I have recorded on my boat is 15.08 knts twice hullspeed. But granted it was surfing. ??
One of the funny things about the Mottle is that it was originally thought of as a non-IOR rule downwind flyer, and compared to contemporary boats like the S&S 34 or Dunco 34 it really was quick downwind in a breeze.
Problem is that it's also a good cruiser so these days many of them are loaded down with cruising gear and not sailed fast, so many people don't realise how well they can go. The Cavalier 32 has a similar 'problem'.
All lined up for Thursday for the Survey and Sea Trial. The surveyor happened to be at the marina the day it came out for it's yearly service, antifoul etc. and said it looked good, so here's hoping the actual survey finds no major surprises.
Select to expand quoteAbout2 said..
All lined up for Thursday for the Survey and Sea Trial. The surveyor happened to be at the marina the day it came out for it's yearly service, antifoul etc. and said it looked good, so here's hoping the actual survey finds no major surprises.
For the money you are paying and the experience I had with the surveyor who surveyed or should I say didn't survey but charged for it in my boat. If you know a bit about boats just do it yourself unless you need it for insurance mine was a waste of money could have done a better job myself.
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..About2 said..
All lined up for Thursday for the Survey and Sea Trial. The surveyor happened to be at the marina the day it came out for it's yearly service, antifoul etc. and said it looked good, so here's hoping the actual survey finds no major surprises.
For the money you are paying and the experience I had with the surveyor who surveyed or should I say didn't survey but charged for it in my boat. If you know a bit about boats just do it yourself unless you need it for insurance mine was a waste of money could have done a better job myself.
Funny (but not funny) you should say that because the surveyor I am using has the exact same thing to say about some of the useless surveyors out there who obviously barely even look at the boats they survey. Wife will not buy without a survey no matter what. So there is that also.
I am a new to boats but learn quickly. Some things were just obvious in other boats we looked at. Eg. Movement on the deck (spongy), Fibreglass flaked away leaving a support beam rotting and soft to touch, cracked and holes around chainplates on deck, diesel stink below deck. Did not need a survey for those, just good running shoes to run in the opposite direction from them.
There a few things I expect to see in the survey, but am more interested in what I am not expecting... hopefully nothing much.
