Opinions

Ha ha, I get your rant!!!

Another point you might soon be adding when you buy that thirtyish feet sensible boat you are over the moon enjoying. Despite your satisfaction, all of a sudden the same "experts" are looking to buy something twenty feet bigger????????

there are as many opinions as there are sailors often the strongest opinions are from those who sail the least i tend to favor smaller wooden boats 35 to 40 foot under 6 foot draft heavy displacement they are slightly dear and more time consuming but carry a good payload with a smooth ride at sea generally smaller sail area (easy to handle )and look pretty ( no point in having an ugly mistress ) that doesn't mean my opinion is the only valid one
try buying a yacht in fair condition as someone who restore yachts for a living i can assure you it is cheaper to buy one already in good condition than to do it yourself this applies to all methods of construction not just timber

Very few people ever truthfully answer the first question.
What will I use the boat for?

Interesting post. I've been doing a lot of research into the history of sailing design and one thing that's interesting is that sailors have created so many myths that are negative to other sailors; for example, in dinghies there are many tales about how innovative designs were resisted by sailors of yore. In fact, that really hasn't happened all that much, and the resistance has been created just as much by people like skiff sailors (who like to pretend that they are more forward-thinking) as by 'the establishment' that many people like to blame.

Take Nat Herreshoff's catamaran, for example. There have been many tales about how she was banned after winning one race and that ban stopped cats from being developed around the world, but it simply didn't happen. These days internet archives allow us to look at the reports of regattas and we can see quite clearly that cats were NOT banned after Herreshoff's Amaryllis took part in that first race. In fact fleets of cats raced in several places, and they were treated just like everything else.

And yet people have been carping on for years in print and in club bars about the supposed ban, and when it's pointed out that there is incontrovertible evidence that it didn't occur, they get upset. They can't seem to live in a world where there are no big bad bogeyman to blame and to feel superior about.

At a guess, the self-concept of many people is bound up in their choice of boat. People who buy a "salty" type might feel that they are independent, tough-minded no-nonsense guys who are above the frippery of modern boats, and that modern boats are only bought by consumerist daysailers or fools. The guys who buy modern boats feel that they are innovative, nimble thinkers and that the guys with gaffers are just stick in the muds. It's not about the boat, it's about the owner's self image, and that's all but impossible to change.

And then there are people like me, who are arrogant enough to think that we can stand above all this stuff, and can't get off the fence because we can't condemn any type!

The thing I find interesting is that there are extremely smart, successful and knowledgeable people who like very different boats. It's obviously not a matter in which the more experienced sailors all sail one type or the other, and it's not a case where people who are objectively smart sail one type or the other. I've met very cluey people cruising on cats, heavy displacement timber boats, steel gaffers, and stripped-out IOR lightweight racers.

Surely personal taste matters in boats as much as it does in travelling on land, where some people hike, some people ride heavy touring bicycles, some ride ultralight backpacking bicycles, some hitchhike, and some use motor homes. There's no "ideal" boat any more than there is an ideal way of travelling on land.

Personally, my dream boat is getting smaller, which is unusual. As I understand the physics, in general;

Interior space increases by the square;
Speed increases by a factor of the square root (so big boats are proportionately slower, in general);
Displacement increases by the cube;
Costs increase at the same rate as displacement.

These days we're looking at a lightweight 36 footer when we move to full-time cruising, but we find the lightweight 28'er so good for weekend cruising that we'll probably hang onto it for when we return to living ashore.

'Scuse the rant, I'm just trying to postpone taking the dogs for a walk.

There are so many great boats out there in the 28 to 35 foot range.
Unless you have your heart set on a particular design I guess the best boat is really one of the good ones at a great price, for instance one 34 went at auction for $5,000.
I think there are probably more 20 to 40 year old boats out there for sale in good condition than there are buyers so there are always bargains out there.

I absolutely love my tophat. cheap to buy. big thick hull. sturdy, strong, handles a blow, headroom. Cost of producing such a boat today? about 100k. I paid 5k. Been up and down the coast heaps. Solo. Getting ready for the Whitsundays next year. She gets used alot. good size, easy to manage, cheap for anything you need, cheaper to moor, slip etc. i dont mind roughing it and dont have the funds for a big expensive boat, but i want to sail and fortunately theres alot of good boats around that anyone can afford if theyre that keen to get into it. Im not for the attitude of " if you cant afford a huge boat, dont bother"
I think you should start with something small. i know a few people who got a windfall and bought massive 500k-1mill boats. Both didnt learn to sail and had scary experiences and quit.
I like your idea of a 28 foot to 35 foot boat. youll be more comfortable than i will be and your family will appreciate the extra space. My mooring fees went up from 300 a year, to 427 when i upgraded from a 22 footer to the 25 footer. THe bigger you go, the more itll cost. It could be like storage unit. sitting there costing you money. You gotta use these things, and in order to do that it needs to be manageable. I did some work the other day to the boat and then sailed for 3 hours, from 2-5pm. Easy. I reckon you want a boat that you can just go to and enjoy , alone and with friends.

"And on a related subject, why is it that poeple who have lived and worked in the same city and job their whole lives are experts on why a cruising life would never work? Why are people who have never owned a boat the quickest to say that it will send you broke and make you cry? Of course that is possible (maybe even probable!), but living a life that misses good things for fear of the possibility of bad things is just not the way I think."

People are cruising indefinately, making a living, making it work. Those people you speak of are everywhere. Theyre scared of not having enough money(even though they got tonnes and retired), drowning, storms, missing out on something in the city(like a saturday morning traffic jam)

Getting into sailing was the BEST thing i ever did. Only been doing it 4 years and hooked. I use the boat so much that it SAVES me money!! instead of going to fiji or something i go away on my boat for a week or so. stock her up with goodies, paddle board, dinghy, music, beers, fishing gear, snorkel mask, surfboard. Cant spend a cent. barely use any fuel. Its mental. Adds an amazing dimension to your life. If you buy something small and cheap then its kinda ok if it doesnt work out. if you lose any $it wont be much. DO IT :)

I've got a good mate who has lived on his compass 29 for over 7 years. He says that he will die on her. I agree with him. I'm fairly sure he is talking about old age. I think it will be more than likely from liver failure. Either way he will go with a big smile on his face.

Mick

It all depend on your buying budget and then yearly budget that you can afford a main sail for my H28 is around $2000 plus some Jodes 5 I would not know but it would be at least double rigging is expensive as well a 30 foot yacht may use 6 to 8 mm wire a turn buckle might cost around the $150 plus where as Jodes maybe twice or more than that,
Then when you lift out and antifoul there's a lot of prep work before then the anti foul amount you need its all relative to the size of your yacht.
For me not going into detail I'm on a very tight budget so when I retire I wanted low running cost to achieve that I'm pouring lots of dollars into the boat before I retire
so my running cost should be low over the next ten years of sailing . SO its getting new sails new rigging and a lot of alteration for long term use most 28 footers are for weekends and short cruising .
The Compass originally was use up north back in the 70's as charter boats after Bernis start doing it in the Whitsundays .
I used to sail against Bernie Katchor who used to charted a yacht called Nari many many years ago up there before he set sail we did sharpie racing great fun
That's when sail boats dinghies were made of ply and Mirrors were rampant
www.whitsundaytimes.com.au/news/farewell-for-tourism-pioneer/2272455/

<div class="forumPostText">Jode5 said, Hi HG, you are correct, just because a boat is twice the size, it does not mean the cost is only double. I just put a new Norths 3DL main sail on, $28,000.00. I may be a little more comfortable and a little faster but I guarantee you are having just as much fun as me.


Well that is very true Jode. Jode passed me going south from Gloucester Is last year, and I must say his boat does look very impressive,
but I arrived only a few hours [I won't say how many, but not that many] in Airlie Beach after him.

Enjoyment on the day, about the same I reckon, but I had longer out on the water.

As to the cost of that main, well that's about what I'm admitting to having spent on Seaka. [a Mark 1 Top Hat]

But I'm out there sailing

Basically its what you can afford and just like life it's the journey not the destination.
Myself and NSW will get there takes a little bit longer at sea and will definitely not have as many creature comforts as Jode 5.
But all three of us are happy little vegemites.
It's been a bit over two years now and never raised a sail but Ive learnt some many more skills over that time and thoroughly enjoyed the journey so far.
before


in between




at the moment below mast will be back this year finally



Ill be still working on her for years
but she'll be sailing
such a enjoyable journey not for everyone

Would I do it again no Id buy a 32 foot plus yacht which had been blue water cruising probably
and after I bought mine prices dropped and many more are available to buy so look hard and see between the lines
Like a book it's what's inside as well as rigging and sails and boat set up and sailable for a single person
Good winds to you
And never for get what boat means
B=Bring
O = on
A=Another
T = thousand may be ten or more (depend if you get the disease )

A wise man told me that a few years ago called Cisco

Ha! Well it's obvious now that I've just been talking to the wrong people . So much GOOD advice. Thank you all.

I hear there's a Compass 28 for sale locally listed at $15k. The question is whether it's a $10k boat asking too much or a $25k boat at a good price. Could be a reasonable place to start looking regardless.........

T.