A steel Roberts 35 ketch has caught my eye. Does anyone have any experience sailing these? The issues that I noticed on inspection are (1) that the freeboard above the water-line chine is literally vertical - no radius whatsoever. How would this handle in a decent blow? (2) the ballast/displacement ratio is about 25% - ie quite low. Would this affect stability? (3) there was spot rust throughout the hull where visible beneath the spray-on foam insulation and beneath the near-new engine. Would it be best/most cost effective to strip out the interior to treat and what would a strip out cost?
I'm looking for an ocean-capable yacht and steel has been my preference as I hope to venture to higher latitudes. I have a fair bit of experience racing and delivering GRP yachts, but this would be my first foray into a steel yacht. I would still like any yacht 'though to have good offshore sailing characteristics. The one below (to me at least) is attractive for a chined hull apart from the vertical freeboard. I haven't sailed any yacht with that hull shape so don't know how it would handle.
Appreciate any comments.
I used to own a Roberts 45 Classic Ketch and I would not buy a Roberts design again. I worked out the the yacht design to be dated with plenty of better designs out there. Hence why they are all so cheap.
I also had a friend that owned a steel boat and he was really fastidious in maintenance. Yet he still struggled to keep ontop of the corrosion. One time he stripped down and repainted the deck and within three weeks the rust started showing through again. He now owns a fibreglass yacht.
Biggest concern I would have is your comments about rust spots showing through in various parts of the hull. Looking at the photos on boatsonline looks like there is a lot of interior timber, can you access the inner hull to look for any corrosion? If you wanted to take it further I would suggest you engage a yacht surveyor experienced in steel boats to go over the hull and deck, including an out of water survey. This could be a minor problem, or cost you $5-20k to fix.
Hope this helps, Ilenart
I will get my 2cents worth in before the anti steel lobby, if you have rust spots showing thru spray foam insulation it's a nightmare. I think that the major cause of steel to fail is foam insulation, holds moisture on the steel. In my book it would be a show stopper
what would a strip out cost?
$30,000 at least. And that is without knowing the unknown unknowns.
gary
Judging by a friends experience with a 45 foot steel adams hard chine, stripping out the interior is to be avoided. He put his on the hard with a plan to be there 3 months. It's more than 3 years now. It's starting to look good again and I guess we will see it sailing again eventually. My homeport is full of steel yachts with only one of them actually going to sea at the moment. Lovely rolled steel long keeler that the owner spends a lot of time maintaining. It did take the owner 8 years of labour on the hard to get it looking this way.
Thanks all for the helpful replies.
I would engage a steel specialist surveyor if I felt like going the next step - absolutely.
There's spray-on foam insulation down to the stringer at the base of the free-board chine. I noticed some bubbled rust in that stringer when I lifted boards. No idea how extensive. Is this a sign to walk-away? You can get to see the bilge reasonably well but less so the foam/steel behind the fittings. I guess even a surveyor would have difficulties commenting on the state of the steel beneath?
Cheers Andy
WELL WHAT ABOUT OSMOSIS IN THE FIBREGLASS BOATS.......................... OH NO THERE GOES YOUR MONEY
Select to expand quotewhiteout said..
WELL WHAT ABOUT OSMOSIS IN THE FIBREGLASS BOATS.......................... OH NO THERE GOES YOUR MONEY
Osmosis is unsightly but it doesn't sink boats.
Interesting topic. Roberts yacht, not many like them, I do. They roomy, bit slow, in steel are like icebreaker . Fibreglass positively would be better option.
There is lot of talks about osmosis, my Swanson was full of it, ask expert for advice, the boat was 35 years old, he checked and advised, leave it for another 20 and than take care of it.
Steel is tricky, could be still ok for many years, might be already beyond.
Working many years in calibration labs, hire ultrasonic steel thickness tester.
If you're looking at steel boats a good place to check is under sections of floor that cant be removed such as shower floors. You might have to go by feel to reach under or use mirror and torch.
These areas will usually have the worst rust, and if there are lots of areas where the inside of the hull can't be accessed I would walk away.
I have built 3 steel boats and love them but also built them with corrosion prevention designed in.
unfortunately a lot were built without future maintenance in mind.
i would find someone who has owned and maintained steel boats for a number of years to look over a potential purchase.
surveyors rarely know steel boats and wont go to a lot of trouble looking for rust.
Another thing I would add is that the stringers are a trouble area, each one is like a little bilge, I have looked at several steel jobs and like mine the frames have limber holes but not the stringers ? I guess the thinking is/ was that the stringers are tack welded so the water can drain but of course paint seals the gap and you have a nice little longitudinal water collector, the stringers in my old girl are 25x 4 mm bar, and when I get the chance I drill limber holes, but ive seen an other wise very nicely made vessel with box section stringers, and she was stuffed ! So the issue was amplified by having a non serviceable area.
Select to expand quotewoko said..
Another thing I would add is that the stringers are a trouble area, each one is like a little bilge, I have looked at several steel jobs and like mine the frames have limber holes but not the stringers ? I guess the thinking is/ was that the stringers are tack welded so the water can drain but of course paint seals the gap and you have a nice little longitudinal water collector, the stringers in my old girl are 25x 4 mm bar, and when I get the chance I drill limber holes, but ive seen an other wise very nicely made vessel with box section stringers, and she was stuffed ! So the issue was amplified by having a non serviceable area.
Some of the newer designs have eliminated stringers in favour of closer frame spacings.
Select to expand quoteIlenart said..
I used to own a Roberts 45 Classic Ketch and I would not buy a Roberts design again. I worked out the the yacht design to be dated with plenty of better designs out there. Hence why they are all so cheap.
I also had a friend that owned a steel boat and he was really fastidious in maintenance. Yet he still struggled to keep ontop of the corrosion. One time he stripped down and repainted the deck and within three weeks the rust started showing through again. He now owns a fibreglass yacht.
Biggest concern I would have is your comments about rust spots showing through in various parts of the hull. Looking at the photos on boatsonline looks like there is a lot of interior timber, can you access the inner hull to look for any corrosion? If you wanted to take it further I would suggest you engage a yacht surveyor experienced in steel boats to go over the hull and deck, including an out of water survey. This could be a minor problem, or cost you $5-20k to fix.
Hope this helps, Ilenart
Totally on the maintenance and difficulty accessing the inner hull due an extensive fitout. I found it easier to let my old one rust out while I kept an eye out for something fibreglass that would get me out of trouble. Easier for me to use all the teak fitting out the glass boat than remove it from the steel and hopefully have it fit back together.
Select to expand quotestray said..woko said..
Another thing I would add is that the stringers are a trouble area, each one is like a little bilge, I have looked at several steel jobs and like mine the frames have limber holes but not the stringers ? I guess the thinking is/ was that the stringers are tack welded so the water can drain but of course paint seals the gap and you have a nice little longitudinal water collector, the stringers in my old girl are 25x 4 mm bar, and when I get the chance I drill limber holes, but ive seen an other wise very nicely made vessel with box section stringers, and she was stuffed ! So the issue was amplified by having a non serviceable area.
Some of the newer designs have eliminated stringers in favour of closer frame spacings.
That makes a lot of sense. With the use of boat building steel and epoxy paint system you could produce a strong hull with reasonable corrosion resistance
With steel yachts I believe the VDS 34 is one of the best due to the "frameless fairing" construction method.
Very few places for rust to start and internal access is very easy. The bonus is that they sail very well too and stand up very well in rough conditions.
