I am not happy with my windlass setup - the wire run is too long with the windlass too far from batteries so I am going to install a dedicated high CCA battery at the bow with the windlass.
At the moment I have a Voltage Sensing Relay so that the alternator charges the house batteries after the start battery is charged (reaches 13.3V).
What I want to do is also charge the windlass battery, as well as the house bank, from the alternator after the start battery is charged.
I could be way off course here but my idea is to use a second VSR as follows:
From start battery run through VSR 1 to windlass battery - When start battery is charged (reaches 13.3V) alternator charges windlass battery.
From windlass battery run through VSR 2 to house batteries - When windlass battery is charged, as well as the start battery, the alternator charges house batteries.
Or would I be better off running both VSRs from the start battery
Is any of this possible???
Is there an easier / more efficient method???
Is there such as thing as a double / dual VSR that will do the job???
TIA,
Larry
Just pondering the set up.
If the VSR units are the same, in either set up the house and windlass batteries will start charging at the same time. I think you want the charging order to be start - windlass - house. When both batteries connect it is likely the VSR will shut off leading to it cycling off and on. If you have different operation voltages - say 13.3 and 13.5 - you probably would not have an issue.
Presumably, you'd sometimes be running the winch only off the battery as the alternator may not have yet brought up the voltage enough to trigger the VSR.
Cheers
Bristol
Hi There, you may check or try: Epever 10A 20A Dual Battery Solar Charge Controller 12V/24V Regulator Meter MT-1
it is on eBay for $30/50. You can decide ammount of %charge going to individual battery continously,
Lazz, how long and what diameter cable have you got presently run ? 2x say 10m ok 20m of good arc welding cable ain't cheap but dicken around with extra batteries and fancy relays could be just as expensive and be a potential pain in the A...
and to charge the extra battery your proably going to have to either get a bigger alternator or be able to manually manipulate the field on your existing alt to get a more constant amp flow
and at a guess a voltage sensitive relay wouldn't switch to the next battery until the previous one was full charge an if the previous batt was a bit dicky then the relay might not switch. If you know what I mean ?
Woops got a bit carried away there, so how big is the cable to your winch ?
A winch really should be connected to the start battery with large enough cables to prevent voltage drop (70mm welding flex 200amp cable is what you need) and your engine should be running while winching. In your case the next best thing, but I don't really like it as you can still have problems with voltage under high load would be to install a DC/DC charger adjacent to your new battery at the winch and connect it to the start battery. Forget the VSR ideas as they are not really meant for this purpose.
I wish I understood elektricity stuff more.
Question for the more edumucated, using Lazz' example, how much current is there across theses wires if an 100A alternator is charging the house and windlass batteries as well as all the power needed for the engine and all the other stuff?
If I look at a 1000w windlass, on a 12v circuit that equates to a max of 80A.
I'm trying to work out if there is significantly less current across the wires if you set up as per Lazz's drawing.
Jode, you mention this is not a normal application of a VSR. What are VSR's normally used for?
Yep, imho you'd always want the engine on and charging the winching battery. A VSR is good for managing the order of charging - start then house - but not for distributing loads. They are also good for avoiding any manual change over with its risks of a momentary loss of load stuffing the alternator.
The suggestion of just upgrading the connecting cables is a good one.
Cheers
Bristol
www.ctek.com/products/on-board/d250sa
i know it's costly, however well worth it, including solar charger and DC-DC for deep cycle batteries.
Makes the best use of Alternator current, and proper charge cycle.
Will trickle charge starter from solar after house is fully charged, and charges house from Alternator and Solar at the same time!!!
My first investment on my new yacht, and don't regret. Only drawback is watch Solar voltage limit and limited to 20a unless combined with the other module, and max 300a/h batteries....
Researched heaps of others prior, this worked for me
Would only need maybe 4-6mm2 cable to run to battery in bow ??? Bigger is always better though
Running new cable depends on the Windlass, see what your numbers say. Work it out like this:.
Estimate the length of the cable run from the battery you want to use to the windlass. Say its 10m by the time it goes around corners and is neat. That means total of 20m there and back.
Say you use 250A cable which is easy to get Altronics W4190A. 15.5mm OD, conductor 50sq mm. Thats close enough to 1AWG size. Its the biggest practical. 1AWG cable resistance is 0.4 ohms per 1000m.
So your total 20m circuit resistance in ohms is 20m/1000m x 0.4 ohms = 0.008 ohms.
Using ohms law (volts=amps x resistance) if your Windlass needs 200A then your voltage loss on that cable is 200 amps x 0.008 ohms which is 1.6V.
That means if you battery was at 12.6V the Windlass would be working on 11V. Depends if the Windlass is happy with that. It should say in its instruction manual. (Of course if the Windlass only needs 100A then your loss is only 0.8V etc).
If it was me I would put a 100A battery on the bow and simply connect it in parallel with the source battery via much lighter cables and a switch/circuit breaker so you can isolate it if you want.
Lazz, it's strange the way the electrical diagnoses side of boating goes, I thought my house battery was dodgy turned out the fridge needed regassing so the compressor was running much longer than it would of ordinarily and was drawing the battery down was only luck that I plugged into shore power and the problem exposed it's self.
As for the windlass the worm drive on mine collapsed so now I power it with an Armstrong unit
trek suggestion , perfect.
I would put battery on the bow, install rotating switch
1/ connected to strarter bat. / when you pull anchor
2/ connected to the house
3/ disconnect / keep fully charge as a back up
Biggest mistake I see is some just use the anchor windlass flat out draining battery's and wearing everything out. I run heavy cable from the start battery and run the mains as I'm pulling the pick and use the winch to pull the chain in until I feel it load up and then pull it up from the depths with very little load, the vsr will click in and starts to charge house after this. Your looking at 30 amp per hour and should only take a few minutes to pull the pick so your only looking at 10 amp per retrieval . Less than your bar fridge overall! Don't stress leave it as is I think.
Biggest mistake I see is some just use the anchor windlass flat out draining battery's and wearing everything out. I run heavy cable from the start battery and run the mains as I'm pulling the pick and use the winch to pull the chain in until I feel it load up and then pull it up from the depths with very little load, the vsr will click in and starts to charge house after this. Your looking at 30 amp per hour and should only take a few minutes to pull the pick so your only looking at 10 amp per retrieval . Less than your bar fridge overall! Don't stress leave it as is I think.
I only went Ctek cause it's all I needed and got the Charger for just under $300 new, with a free cooler bag!!! Haha. Didn't think the smartpass was so much. Better than Yum Cha brands, but not as expensive as the Highend stuff I didn't need.
Sterling looks great, but how available are they?? I only checked quickly.
Enerdrive also looks good, thought it charged start after house full???? Again, quick glance.
Redarc does Solar and higher voltage solar than Ctex, but not sure what solar Wattage limit, they normally answer emails quickly..... note Ctex never answered my email. Your link clearly says unregulated Solar input
Or.... Do separate Solar, and separate Dc-Dc.....or get bigger cables to run to the bow and treat it as a 2 Starter setup...???
I wouldn't pay $1300 for Ctex after reading the others, but I like my little charger for $350 with Circuit breakers installed. Ply mount fitted the vent hole I cut in new washboard perfectly!!! Gotta love when a plan works out.
Make a educated choice, and be happy with your outcome, and don't over capitalise like we all keep telling ourselves but seem to ignore.
Lazz, did you look into Twohulls suggestion ofthe duo controller?
I think that could be set up to work.
All modern alternators have build in very good battery charger,
solar regulator is in fact good charger too.
You don't need another so call DC- DC charger, it's in fact
very expensive electronic switch , selecting between two inputs.
And on top of it , they limit current, you need every bit of current
to charge battery/ es, not to limit .
Priority is charge the house battery, than through VSR overflow
current to charge winch battery.
What I alway recommend is build in digital panel voltmeter
with switch selector to monitor individual batteries.
Lazz,
Someone may have suggested this as I haven't read all the replys so here's my bit, this is not the only way to do it, its just another way.
Leave everything as is, leave the existing VSR switching between start & house batteries, the alternator regulator is controlling the charge to the battery selected by the VSR and from what you have written I dont think you have any issues with that side of your system.
I would install a DC to DC charger adjacent to the new windless battery. I would even go as far as using the existing cables that run form the start battery. Why? they're there, use them. I'm a lazy electrician. But would give strong consideration of moving them to the house battery, just to protect the start battery from current draw when engine is not running. A DC to DC charger will continue to draw current until the windless battery is fully charged.
Why this way? The DC to DC charger will charge you windless battery correctly, get a 3 or 5 stage charger. You only use the windless once a day, maybe??? So there's plenty of time to refill the windless battery so long as you have some spare supply for it, excess solar or wind. Perhaps this way may be cheaper. If you hadn't purchased the new battery I would have suggested just paralleling up the cables to the windless.
Sometimes I think we (yachties) overthink things , God I know I do. Its a boat, keep it simple I have to constantly tell myself.
All jokes aside, Fuses Circuit breakers, use them. Anything cable hooked up to a battery needs to be protected with the right sized fuse as close as possible to the battery.
Mike
Just as a quick update:
I ended up getting 25mts of 70mm2 cable to run from the start battery to the windlass - compared to what I have at the moment this will be a huge improvement.
Thanks to all the talk about smart charging etc I ended up getting the REDARC BCDC1250D In-vehicle Battery Charger which will handle my solar input, the alternator & look after the start & house batteries.
www.redarc.com.au/dual-input-50a-in-vehicle-dc-battery-charger
Thanks to all for the input :)