Value of Old Yachts 70's & 80's a Liability?

Hi All,

I have been reading the forum for a couple of years now, having recently sold my yacht for a price that could make a grown man cry I started to ponder maybe I dodged a bullet!

I had numerous people and brokers approach me showing me other boats for sale during the 6 months it took me to come to reality.

The question I ask is what is a boat from the mid 80's with original engine and electrical wiring, plumbing etc really worth if we put our accountant hats on.

A recent example I viewed was a late 80's Cavalier 37 with 2010 Yanmar engine low hours, Rigging done less than 10 years ago and the boat had been rewired etc overall in excellent condition. The broker was asking 55 and I assume it ended up somewhere in the 40's after haggling.

If you took then a boat that had nothing done but was in good condition to it what would a realistic price be?

Approx Boat value after work done 45k
Repower 30-35hp 15-18k incl install
Rigging Standing & Running 6 - 10k (cant get insurance without it)
Wiring and Plumbing etc 2k?
Misc Items 2k

Does this make the above hypothetical boat really worth 13k?

If you pay more for it you have essentially lost money the moment you take ownership.

Assuming there are other issues with a boat of that age e.g through hull fittings need replacing, Keel bolts might be looking sad, Stern and Rudder glands are starting to leak it wouldn't take much to bring the above into negative territory.


It is sad to think about but my business hat suggests a lot of older yachts are approaching the point where they are worth more for scrap a sad day indeed or maybe a happy day if you are a retired shipwright.

Graham.

My opinion is that bigger sailing boats looked after and fixed up are a good investment. Lucky for us there are no new design boats that are good and cheap entering the market like whats happening with cars. Hyundai's and similar which are cheap, long warranty and not bad (I dont work for Hyundai) have forced the second hand car market down hugely I think.

The same pool of boats goes around and around in Oz and those boats kind of stay the same value but if you renovate them they can go upwards in value a lot. My boats roughly doubled in value in 5 years due to fixing it which was fun on the way and good exercise. The doubling in value is $35K purchase to $70K offer 2 years ago.

I am looking to buy at the moment and am facing the same problem but on the other side as a buyer. Plenty of older yachts around but all with original engine, need rigging and most of the wiring I have seen resembles a birds nest of loose ends.

While I have the money to spend doing a boat up I would like to have some reasonable chance at recouping some of the cost, its a different ballpark when you are talking about throwing 20 - 30k down the drain which is possible with some of the asking prices floating around. I saw the Cavalier you are referring to on-line and its not an isolated issue. When someone is able to buy something with a new engine and rigging for under 50k why would they look at my boat in a few years time if it doesn't have the same 30k worth of improvements. After having 2 projects in the past and learning the hard way I know what I will be doing next, saving the blood sweat and tears and buying something I can sail today with the hard work already done. I think it will be interesting over the next few years as boats from the 90's have taken the place of what we would have paid several years ago for a boat from the 80's. I am in my early 30's and growing up I was used to the idea that a car from 2000 was really recent, it is funny how that idea sticks in your mind for years until one day the switch flicks and you say wow that is actually 16 years old now.

of course the old yachts are a liability, so are the new ones !! B.O.A.T . stands for ? come on now all together .........................



HG when you get me out on starboard , i will gladly duck off the wind for you !!

Welcome to the forum Graham73.

Despite the detail of your question, it is still very open ended.

When you said "Does this make the above hypothetical boat really worth 13k?", I assume you meant $130,000 not $13,000.


You also referred to "A recent example I viewed was a late 80's Cavalier 37 with 2010 Yanmar engine low hours, Rigging done less than 10 years ago and the boat had been rewired etc overall in excellent condition. The broker was asking 55 and I assume it ended up somewhere in the 40's after haggling."

This makes me assume you are interested in an "Ocean Going Yacht". Be that the case, I highly recommend a read of Donald Steet's "The Ocean Sailing Yacht".

When considering buying a yacht, you need to take your accountant's hat off because any accountant worth his salt, and they are few and far between, will tell that buying a yacht is a bad financial decision likely to lead to financial ruin.

If that has not deterred you, take off the accountant's hat and don your sailing cap. The most important aspect of buying a yacht is that it is of a good design for the purpose intended. Don't even think about dollars yet as you have already proven yourself to be financially inept with your determination to buy a yacht. You are beyond redemption to the normality of mainstream society.

You are buggered mate. Every computer your name comes up on will have a "Red Flag - Not Normal" on it.

So having committed yourself to "Not Normal", you have to determine which design of vessel will take you to the extremity of your not normalness. That done you can really get down to business. From here it is just a matter of market research and determining if you just want to go or if you have the time, patience and skills to turn a fixerupper into your Tardis.

If a yacht is 30 years old and has not had at least one complete refit of everything, it will need it very soon particularly with electrics.

Happy Hunting.

Yes buying a yacht is financial madness but I guess we are all members of the nut case club here. I suggest an AA type meeting where we can talk through our madness. Just joking.

From my understanding and I could be wrong Graham probably was looking at the same boat I saw but I saw it too late.

http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/cavalier-37/182818

I think what he is suggesting is that if this went for somewhere in the 40k region what is a boat that has not had anything done to it worth? You would say 13k as suggested is madness but is it?

This is the same issue that is plaguing my mind as I always assumed if I brought a yacht like this well and if I repowered it and did the rigging and wiring I could sell it for a good price eventually recouping some of my money. Now the real question is what is a good price to buy a boat that has had nothing done to it but is in okay structural condition? To repower and re rig might get you a small amount of change from 30k but not much assuming you cant do it yourself.

With regard to rigging and insurance.

When we purchased our current boat the insurers (Club Marine) wanted a rigging survey.

The rigging survey came back very good but because the rig was older than 10 years the insurers wouldn't comer it. They still gave us cover for everything else, just not the rig.

That enabled us to use facilities where insurance in mandatory until we got the rig replaced.

Shortly later we re rigged for 2.5k (cutter, furler, twin backstays with insulators and twin lowers) and a report to Club Marine from the rigger and we were fuly insured.

MY POINT, don't think that because the rigging of the boat you might be lookong at is out of date that it will stop you getting insurance.

In our case the cost of the rigging was unimportant as it wasn't to expensive and everything else about the boat suited us just fine.

Mind you, we spent over a year looking at overpriced junk before finding what we were after.

Indeed $$$ has nothing to do with it really where sailing boats are concerned.

For example a boat thats sailed the Pacific has a certain character and reputation that cant be converted into $$$. Or the Atlantic even more dollars. To stand on the decks of a boat like that is a wonderful thrill that makes one feel like adventure. I think its called "sea fever" Standing on the deck of a boat thats won lots of sailing championships is like sitting on a champion race horse. Who cares if the rigging's a bit rusty or a few things need fixing, sailings for love of the sea, wind and nature not economics

Old boats with a few cruising extras do help though

I reckon the dollar value of boats at tje moment has a lot to do with the volume of used boats (and new) on the market today and the numbers of buyers about. Add to that the costs of maintainance and limited places to park them which also drives up the values of moorings and marina pens.
A friend of mine built his boat over 30 years ago and enjoyed the coastal cruising he amd his wife and kids did. He reluctantly sold it due to age and declining interest for half what he thought it was worth. But meanwhile over the years his marina berth increased in value to over 10 x what he got for the boat.
Crazy times indead
I wouldnt swap my 75 model Cape Barren Goose GRP (built like an icebreaker with stringers frames bulkheads and massive steel ring frame) for any modern grp foam and ply production boat.
I am the third owner but really just its current caretaker as it will outlive me.
Maintaining my boat gives me pleasure as well as security and trust.
Its a pity the modern boat buyer gets caught up in the world of consuming and devaluating assets.

So far the best analogy I have seen on here is to value the boat the same as you would value a world tour. Both are going to cost a lot of money and there will never be a tangible return on your investment other than the memories that you take away from your adventures. So if buying an older boat is what makes you happy and hopefully give you many happy memories then go for it by all means.

Someone posted here somewhere, sometime

You don't own a boat....its just left ( hopefully) in your safe keeping for a time.

I remember it because it's true.

Its not what it costs to buy...but what it costs to keep

And if you cant afford keep it....Don't buy it

I get the vibe most on here do most their own maintenance.

That labor savings is tremendous. ...plus

There is nothing so fun....as mucking around fixing up your own boat.
You cant take the $$$ with ya

But you will remember the sunsets in the bay as you die