Stoked to finally get some decent conditions to take the new (not yet released) Naish Hover DW 125L for a quick DW run. Come join me as I take a quick 7km trip down the coast getting aquatinted with the new sled for the first time.
Super stable, incredibly easy to paddle up on, and well balanced for comfortable, easy turning, pumping and reliable altitude control.
This is the Hover DW 125L, which is the bigger of the two boards that will be released shortly. It is 7'4" x 25" and obviously 125L, the second board is the Naish Hover DW 105L which is 7'1" x 22.5" and 105L. Both boards are simply just incredibly nice to ride, both DW and in the waves.
Board: Naish Hover DW 125L
Foil: Naish 1240HA with 280HA rear on 64cm Fuselage and C100/75cm mast.
Conditions: Southerly gusting up to 20kn, lulls as low as 12kn. Main swell from the SE, second swell from the East and then a small long period NE swell.
It is pretty long video as it covers the whole run, and I am talking about the run.
Enjoy,
Awesome video , I watched the whole lot to see how you turn and read the bumps, as usual you make it look way too easy, but there was a fair bit of pumping going on. Do you recon a bigger front wing would have been more suitable in those conditions or easier with less pumping needed. I wondered if Naish were going to get into the DW specific boards. Does it have forward or longer tracks to suit other foils as well as Naish ? and what are the weights ?
Select to expand quotekobo said..
Awesome video , I watched the whole lot to see how you turn and read the bumps, as usual you make it look way too easy, but there was a fair bit of pumping going on. Do you recon a bigger front wing would have been more suitable in those conditions or easier with less pumping needed. I wondered if Naish were going to get into the DW specific boards. Does it have forward or longer tracks to suit other foils as well as Naish ? and what are the weights ?
Interesting comment, for ocean DW, there is actually not a lot of pumping going on IMHO. The 1240HA was perfectly suited to the conditions. Our swells run near direct onshore as you can see on the video (come of the swell was actually coming at me), so some pumping and traversing is inevitable. The tracks are pretty far forward in these boards and weights are excellent for the volumes and build quality. The 105L weighs about 6kg and the 125L under 6.8kg. The board is very well developed and rides amazing.
Ride safe,
JB
Doing DW'ers introduces a whole lot of organisation and logistics, not to mention the risks associated with being way out in the deep blue at times.
As and old time surfer and a 2 year wingfoiler, I'm more interested in being able to ride this type of board around the local surf breaks rather than the shorter, low volume prone boards on the no wind days.
What is the general thought in this regard and not necessarily brand specific?
I make this comment on the Naish thread as I ride Naish gear.
Sooooo good.. Thanks JB.. That new Naish DW foil board looks awesome..
Can't wait to get my hands on one.. Our Port Phillip Bay is going to be a DW foiling paradise.. 
Select to expand quotekersh said..
Doing DW'ers introduces a whole lot of organisation and logistics, not to mention the risks associated with being way out in the deep blue at times.
As and old time surfer and a 2 year wingfoiler, I'm more interested in being able to ride this type of board around the local surf breaks rather than the shorter, low volume prone boards on the no wind days.
What is the general thought in this regard and not necessarily brand specific?
I make this comment on the Naish thread as I ride Naish gear.
Hey Kersh,
Definitely a great wave board. I have surfed it more than I have DW it (because of conditions right now). It surfs soo bloody good it is incredible. Having the paddle up and stability allows you to get on any wave you want, well before they even look like breaking. Able available positions for mounting allows you to set the board up super neutral, and you do not feel the length or width, it just feels light and responsive. I am so impressed with these boards, but in particular the 125L as it will really suit the general rider all the way up to the season enthusiast. I am sure the "PRO's" might still go for custom <20" wides, but I love the stability, ease and reliability. I have zero worries going way offshore on this board.
Ride safe,
JB
Thanks JB,
At just 70kg, I'd be keen to go the 105L, so I'll have to watch this space for release dates.
It will give me time to score points with my wife as it will look different in the garage next to the Morning of the Earth 6'8 Fiji and 7'6" Massive. And it's a different colour to the S26 Carbon Ultra :-)
I would like to try DW or sup foil surf but the idea of the really narrow boards puts me off. I can see the ability to get up to foil speed on a narrow board, but don't think I have the skills to balance or paddle in surf stance in bumpy seas. I think might see a few used narrow boards up for sale when the reality of just how hard it is hit's home.
be good to see how Naish have designed the shape to optimise speed.
.
Select to expand quotergmacca said..
I would like to try DW or sup foil surf but the idea of the really narrow boards puts me off. I can see the ability to get up to foil speed on a narrow board, but don't think I have the skills to balance or paddle in surf stance in bumpy seas. I think might see a few used narrow boards up for sale when the reality of just how hard it is hit's home.
be good to see how Naish have designed the shape to optimise speed.
.
I've heard the bigger of the two Naish DW boards has a sensible width for us bigger boys.. 
Why are companies still using 10" track boxes. Have we not learn't that different foils like to ride in different places in the box and 10" is not enough adjustment!
Select to expand quoteactivechris said..
Why are companies still using 10" track boxes. Have we not learn't that different foils like to ride in different places in the box and 10" is not enough adjustment!
Why would there not be enough adjustment?
Without the restrictions of a footstrap position can't you just position your feet accordingly?
Or am I missing something?
Select to expand quoteactivechris said..
Why are companies still using 10" track boxes. Have we not learn't that different foils like to ride in different places in the box and 10" is not enough adjustment!
Hey activechris,
Thanks for your comment, and a good one at that. There's a few reasons we opted away from the 16" tracks and stuck with the 10" tracks.
1. Weight. The longer tracks add a substantial amount of weight if installed correctly. The 10" track allows for use across many if not all foil brands when positioned correctly (as Naish's are), where both AXIS and LIFT can be used on both sizes of board (minus those weirdo's out there that can not balance up a board). It is important to understand that the ideal way to set your mount position is by an actual centre of gravity balancing over the Center of Lift of your foil. Then moving your stance to center over this point also. Fine tuning for personal preference is of coarse encouraged as we don't all stand or ride the same, but +/- an cm, 10" should be enough.
2. Strength. The longer a track the weaker it is. The further away the actual ends go from the solid end blocks of high density foam, the more you are relying on only the edges to handle the forces applied. Down wind boards will be using bigger foils, bigger spans and being pumped a lot! Strength is paramount, as we're likely offshore also.
3. Cost. More materials mean more costs. Less strength means more reenvforcements = more materials = more costs.
For unnecessary adjustment, adding more cost, more weight and taking away strength, I feel Naish have made a great choice going with the 10" tracks, I also love their placement.
Now, I am sure someone will not like the placement, it is guaranteed, there's always someone, but this could just as easily be the case even with linger tracks. Some people just ride incredibly different to others of the technical balance point of the board.
As DJ mentioned, it is important to remember you can move your stance to be more efficient and effective. In the balance up process, the board is only accounting for 6kg of the combined weight to be balanced. Assuming a rider like me at 90kg and my biggest foil at 5kg, we are weighing in at 101kg with the board only making up <6% of that. Moving my stance literally 1cm at 90kg can equate to 7.5% increase in force. So easily compensated for personal preference.
The board is amazing, and rides incredible
Get your name on them NOW!! Limited numbers in this first shipment (yes DJ I have your name on one).
Ride safe,
JB
I wasn't having a direct go at Naish. And yes you are right it is less important on a board of this size. Cost is a non issue as I understand the cost difference in materials between going 10" 12" 14" and 16" and there is bugger all. It just blows me away that so many wing boards and prone boards are still 10" tracks. At least go 12" or 14". I have friends that have literally had to sell their boards as they have changed foil brands and can no long use their board because they can't move their foil far enough forward or back. I design my own boards and I would never use 10" tracks. I feel 16" might be over kill but my 4'6" Prone has 16s in it and it only weighs 2.4kg. If done right they can still be light and bullet proof!!
Select to expand quoteactivechris said..
I wasn't having a direct go at Naish. And yes you are right it is less important on a board of this size. Cost is a non issue as I understand the cost difference in materials between going 10" 12" 14" and 16" and there is bugger all. It just blows me away that so many wing boards and prone boards are still 10" tracks. At least go 12" or 14". I have friends that have literally had to sell their boards as they have changed foil brands and can no long use their board because they can't move their foil far enough forward or back. I design my own boards and I would never use 10" tracks. I feel 16" might be over kill but my 4'6" Prone has 16s in it and it only weighs 2.4kg. If done right they can still be light and bullet proof!!
All good and didn't see it as a dig 
.
Cost does come in in a mass production sense. I know one off it likely makes bugger all difference, but 60% more material used when costing is done by actuals used in the board, not waste, does make a difference. Everything added of taken at the production stage in mass manufacture multiple out substantially larger by the time it reaches the end consumer.
Using conventional materials, there is only so light you can go and still be "strong". Everything is a weigh off! It is finding the balance of what you need as an individual rider in strength and performance. Generally (for 99% of riders out there) the weight is not actually inhibiting their performance, but it is nice to have a light board, agreed 
. However a vast majority of riders out there do require superior durability.
There is always a way, and as mentioned, everything has a counter affect. Hopefully all brands do the necessary R&D to get the tracks in an accurate location for actual balance up (using math not just guess what looks good).
Good discussion points 
Ride safe,
JB
As long as the tracks are placed ideally in relation to the center of buoyancy 10" is plenty,
Also when ramming you foil to the front of the tracks you are creating more tail and most possibly making lift off harder.
I certainly don't want longer boxes and the weight and strength penalties it comes with. So many big companies didn't r&d their wing boards sufficiently including where the tracks were placed.
Select to expand quoteAnyBoard said..
As long as the tracks are placed ideally in relation to the center of buoyancy 10" is plenty,
Also when ramming you foil to the front of the tracks you are creating more tail and most possibly making lift off harder.
I certainly don't want longer boxes and the weight and strength penalties it comes with. So many big companies didn't r&d their wing boards sufficiently including where the tracks were placed.
IMHO I have to disagree on that one. Between different foils, different stab shimming and different riding styles 10" is a compromise. Take the FG boards that are setup from Amstrong for an amstrong foil. They work really well until you want to ride a Axis or tukuma with a more neutral stance and you can't get your foil back far enough. Yet if you like a front footed feel but don't like your tail shimmed too much you are all the way forward in the box with a lift or HA Armie. This is also definitely more related to smaller boards in the range where your foot positioning is more critical.
Adding a couple of inches to the tracks is adding 50g approx to the weight 100 at the most. You are also adding weight over the foil where it matter the least as it doesn't change the swing weight. If people are that concerned about weight build the tracks out of Carbon fibre. You can make them stronger and lighter and they also bond better to the laminate as epoxy doesn't love bonding to plastic. There is also plenty of other areas you can save weight on.
Board looks great JB , easy flyer
I'll throw my 2 bobs in on 16" tracks v 10" tracks , first up the weight gain is substantial and it's not just from the extra heavy duty long boxes but it's the extra HD foam , glue , carbon ect it can easily add 750 grams as they really need to be set in securely due to extra leverage. All boards are different and all handle nose or tail pressure differently , so NO simply shifting your feet will not always work .Too far back you sink the tail and it stalls and it won't start , too far back you drown the nose and it will not start. You also want to be able to balance you board and foil position ( JB Expert on this ) if you can't do this before the board hits the water , you are behind the 8 ball from the start and with all the different mast positions on the fuselage these days from all the different brands , I think it's nearly impossible to achieve this on a 10" box. You want your feet to be in the same position from when you start paddling to when you foil , having to do the shuffle as you try and pop onto the foil , just makes things harder.
Having said all that though if you only ride one or 2 brands of foils , you know where your boxes need to be and 10" boxes are fine BUT if you ride and test everything like me 16" is a must and I'll happily pay the weight penalty , which on the big boards is not a biggy but lighter does always feel better.
Kind of funny, Naish who make boards and foils to go on said boards get bagged because other manufacturers foils aren't suited to the boards. I'm sure the track placement is perfect for a Naish foil so wouldn't it be better to buy a Naish foil to suit. Or you could buy an Armstrong or Axis board to suit your Armstrong or Axis Foil?
10" is definitely not enough , I ride Armstrong and if I had 10" boxes on my Sunova DW board instead of 16" ,I wouldn't be able to ride both HS foils and HA. For instance if the 10"boxes were placed 22" from the tail like the Kalama boards ,I could only ride my 1550v2 HS wing and not my 1125 HA because it wouldn't go forward enough . So that's a problem with even the same brand of foil use.
Select to expand quoteairsail said..
Kind of funny, Naish who make boards and foils to go on said boards get bagged because other manufacturers foils aren't suited to the boards. I'm sure the track placement is perfect for a Naish foil so wouldn't it be better to buy a Naish foil to suit. Or you could buy an Armstrong or Axis board to suit your Armstrong or Axis Foil?
If any brand is only going to build the board for there foil they are shooting themself in the foot. At the end of the day there are all businesses that need to sell product. Why would you design something that limits who you can sell too??
Select to expand quotePiros said..
Board looks great JB , easy flyer
I'll throw my 2 bobs in on 16" tracks v 10" tracks , first up the weight gain is substantial and it's not just from the extra heavy duty long boxes but it's the extra HD foam , glue , carbon ect it can easily add 750 grams as they really need to be set in securely due to extra leverage. All boards are different and all handle nose or tail pressure differently , so NO simply shifting your feet will not always work .Too far back you sink the tail and it stalls and it won't start , too far back you drown the nose and it will not start. You also want to be able to balance you board and foil position ( JB Expert on this ) if you can't do this before the board hits the water , you are behind the 8 ball from the start and with all the different mast positions on the fuselage these days from all the different brands , I think it's nearly impossible to achieve this on a 10" box. You want your feet to be in the same position from when you start paddling to when you foil , having to do the shuffle as you try and pop onto the foil , just makes things harder.
Having said all that though if you only ride one or 2 brands of foils , you know where your boxes need to be and 10" boxes are fine BUT if you ride and test everything like me 16" is a must and I'll happily pay the weight penalty , which on the big boards is not a biggy but lighter does always feel better.
Don't disagree that they add weight. And my thoughts are 16" is too far the other way. I think if positioned right that 12 - 14" should do the job. Also there is many ways to mount the boxes and still keep it light. My prone has 16"s is only 2.4kg and has been abused, towed and smashed in shore breaks plenty of times. I am also a heavy rider. The tracks are never going to let go in that thing.
Just use 2 x 10" boxes and off set 4". 14" tracks for the weight of 10"
Just have to use three bolts instead of 4.
The Kalama Barracuda production model in another topic here only has 10" tracks too and their boards are longer. Yes longer tracks would be nice, guess next years model in most companies will feature this as customer feedback will demand. Time will tell!
Select to expand quotekobo said..
10" is definitely not enough , I ride Armstrong and if I had 10" boxes on my Sunova DW board instead of 16" ,I wouldn't be able to ride both HS foils and HA. For instance if the 10"boxes were placed 22" from the tail like the Kalama boards ,I could only ride my 1550v2 HS wing and not my 1125 HA because it wouldn't go forward enough . So that's a problem with even the same brand of foil use.
Isn't that more of an Armstrong problem? I ride other brands where I only have to make minor adjustments between sizes and range of foil.
Select to expand quoterandomfoiler said..
It is interesting to see where the guy in the video above put his foil ...
Looks like the front of the boxes (just like I do with my Naish foils on my Naish boards) and I think Naish put the boxes more back to accommodate some of the other brand foils that need to be positioned more back than Naish foils.. What a great looking board..
Select to expand quotePeterP said..kobo said..
10" is definitely not enough , I ride Armstrong and if I had 10" boxes on my Sunova DW board instead of 16" ,I wouldn't be able to ride both HS foils and HA. For instance if the 10"boxes were placed 22" from the tail like the Kalama boards ,I could only ride my 1550v2 HS wing and not my 1125 HA because it wouldn't go forward enough . So that's a problem with even the same brand of foil use.
Isn't that more of an Armstrong problem? I ride other brands where I only have to make minor adjustments between sizes and range of foil.
Yeh probably but also a lift,North, Cabrinha, Unifoil, Fone problem too who all have HA and MA foils in their range that need travel in the boxes to work.
Select to expand quoteactivechris said..
Don't disagree that they add weight. And my thoughts are 16" is too far the other way. I think if positioned right that 12 - 14" should do the job. Also there is many ways to mount the boxes and still keep it light. My prone has 16"s is only 2.4kg and has been abused, towed and smashed in shore breaks plenty of times. I am also a heavy rider. The tracks are never going to let go in that thing.
Wow that's light 2.4 kg with 16" , how did you achieve that.
Kobo :- Agree the Cabrinhas ,F-One's , North & Lift like to way forward as well not so much the Uni's though.
I am not sure if this topic is getting off topic or not 
.
Something that has to be addressed here is also personal preference. Take for instance the pic of Austin above. On that board (the 105L), I ride with my foil about half way and I am 90kg. Austin is more like 70kg and rides it all the way forward. Now I am not going to say Austin has it wrong, but he does . No, seriously, Austin has come from a lifetime of foiling on GoFoil, a notorious front foot feeling foil, where as Naish is more neutral. So likely to feel natural for him, he rides it slammed all the way forward. From a technical stand point, it is actually not as efficient as being balanced up, but he can out ride all of us on here put together, so I am not going to call him and tell him 
.
You are likely never going to get every person out there even if they were riding the same board same foil to want their foil in the same spot. What I find neutral may be different to what Piros finds neutral. There is a technical way to set things up neutral, but then you need to tune to your liking.
Basic flight required an amount up lift to counter the mass/down forces. Every force that is applied that is not directly countering this mass directly is actually creating drag and the need for greater masses/forces to counter. This is why aligning the centre of gravity and the centre of lift is the most efficient way to fly, this will minimize drag and rear wing down forces required for stability. As your CoG moves from the CoL, extra forces are required to offset and correct to achieve an equilibrium. Again, the more forces added, the more drag is added, but more importantly the more velocity is required to produce the extra forces needed.
In theory, a perfectly balanced board with enough velocity producing the right amount of lift to counter the mass (weight plus gravity) would not require a rear wing for flight.
But again, some people like to feel of always having the forces out, even though it is very inefficient and draggy, it feels powerful! In foiling it is soo important to understand "Feels"! As we often think something is better going off feel. But I have tested soo much gear in countless settings, and I know that majority of the time, I am going the fastest when I do not feel like I am. Being unstable, or having to counter forces gives you the impression of power and speed, but in actual fact it is not.
Anyway, whilst I would like as many option as possible, I do not think it is the better option for production. The collective globally seem to agree with this as many boards made by international companies are sticking with the 10" tracks even after feedback from countries round the world. I agree, stick with the 10" commercially. But getting it "right" is important, assuming you speak to the "right" person to find out where "Right" is!
JB
