Select to expand quoteRideordie said..
Naish Glide 14 V2 on top, SIC FX Pro 14 (x 25) in the middle and SIC X-14 SCC on the bottom. ...how the nose rocker on the FX is almost imperceptible. FX clearly has more tail rocker than the X-14, but it is hard to tell the difference on the nose.
Nice pic that clear shows how all the speculation in this thread does not match up to reality of the board. The FX extends the the flatwater race X into the surf race arena. It is a race board, pure and simple. I said it on the 'Downwind Board Test' thread and I'll say it here; if you're looking for a downwind board, the FX is not it.
Finally got to check one out in person. Wow, it is freakishly thick in the standing area. I'm coming off All Stars and I can't imagine being that high off the water. You'll definitely need to get a longer paddle. The most striking feature however is the nose; the appearance of no rocker and the piercing style nose. It is definitely not the hybrid nose I thought it might be. Overall though, it looks narrow and f'ing fast. Riders under 190lb or shaky on a 25" wide, need not apply.
Yeah it's great seeing the X14 and the FX next to each other like that.
So what is surprising me now is that in the pictures and videos of the FX being paddled in flat water, we nearly always see the front 6 inches or more of the FX sticking out of the water. But when I paddle my X14 the nose is always engaged, and you hardly ever see the nose above the water in X14 videos. So if the nose rockers of both boards are virtually identical, why is there such a difference in trim between the two boards?
Baddog, Agree with what you said. It is a race board that handles rougher water and light to medium downwind. It is very fast down wind though. I am 200 pounds, 55 years old with average balance and I am very comfortable on this board. I did not need to shorten my paddle length, even though I could have done so in minutes with my Kenalu adjustable Extended Ergo T handle. It is very fast and versatile for all conditions. Is it as good as the Allstar 25? I don't know, maybe not. Does not bother me a bit and saves me about a $1000.
Area 10, that's Raaphorst magic and it is subtle. You see what I see. I don't know how to descrive this, but here goes. The board is flat, but trimmed up significantly from the bottom toward the front in the last 6 inches or so. The slight lifting of the nose gives the water planning access for quick acceleration. The board also carries the glide extremely well. I think better than the X 14 Pro. If you are fully engaging the nose, then you are probably a bit too far forward on this board. Stepping bacxk just a few inches can make a huge difference. Too far forward and the board feels out of balance and slower.
I did forget to mention, it does look awesome in person. Finish wise, it puts the All Stars to shame. Ride, you're lucky. You sound like the perfect size rider for the board. A10, since we've all seen the same vids and pics, I was blown away how low the nose rocker appeared to be. I agree with Ride that the concept of engaging the nose is flawed for a lot of boards. Checking the tail wash is the better methodology. p.s. sorry for the previous post's typos
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Select to expand quoteArea10 said...
Yeah it's great seeing the X14 and the FX next to each other like that.
So what is surprising me now is that in the pictures and videos of the FX being paddled in flat water, we nearly always see the front 6 inches or more of the FX sticking out of the water. But when I paddle my X14 the nose is always engaged, and you hardly ever see the nose above the water in X14 videos. So if the nose rockers of both boards are virtually identical, why is there such a difference in trim between the two boards?
I'm guessing the tail rocker is different.. (more on the FX)
Select to expand quoteDavidJohn said...Area10 said...
Yeah it's great seeing the X14 and the FX next to each other like that.
So what is surprising me now is that in the pictures and videos of the FX being paddled in flat water, we nearly always see the front 6 inches or more of the FX sticking out of the water. But when I paddle my X14 the nose is always engaged, and you hardly ever see the nose above the water in X14 videos. So if the nose rockers of both boards are virtually identical, why is there such a difference in trim between the two boards?
I'm guessing the tail rocker is different.. (more on the FX)
Well, it pretty obviously is. But the tail looks light on the water too, even when loaded. So let me re-phrase this: if the FX has flat rocker (like the X14) why do both the tail and nose stick out of the water when it is unloaded (way further than the X14)?
Come on Helmy, you've had 3 or 4 paddles, and 3 or 4 days sulking with a sore head
Is Helmy definitely OK? Head injuries can be strange things. Hope he's all right.
Select to expand quoteArea10 said..
Is Helmy definitely OK? Head injuries can be strange things. Hope he's all right.
Thanks for the concern A10.
Yes I'm still here, probably not possible to do more damage over & above the previous cumulative damage from beer, rum and 20 years of sailing with Nozza.
Still got 4 stitches in my head from walking into a pier in the dark last Tuesday morning.
No paddling since...but tomorrow is on...0-5 knots, foggy start clearing to sunny 21c.
Not much to report so far that hasn't been said already...only 3 paddles in less than perfect conditions, but here goes...
The package :
Well wrapped, beautiful paintwork, no blemishes, 11.1 kg excluding fin. 11.5kg including fin.
Handle pretty well balanced.
Downright sexy.
Fin is straight...unlike a friend who has a cheaper but well respected 14' board. Hers is at least 5 degrees off...!!!
Logistics in and out of the garage & on & off car are great. I have purchased a 2nd bop handle so I have one on each side. Provides an even further improvement to the standard inbuilt SIC handle when carrying the board around, and allows me to run some shock cord for water bottle etc.
The board :
It is different to the demo model :
Noticeably (heaps) more volume - probably good given our choppy conditions - we've always got something going on in terms of wave action.
It bounces over the chop better than the demo. I was worried about the demo's piercing attributes and burying into the waves.
Have extended my paddle about an inch to cope with the higher topsides - test this out tomorrow.
It's got a serious - "take me on a maliko run", or offshore look about it, much like the 17 4 bullets. Different to the X models look, that have that "take me on a lake run" look.
Slight recess in the deck, or a slight lip to delineate deck area from rail. Probably only 10mm, but a better look than the demo. Enough to feel with your toes.
25" is noticeably more tippy than the demo 25 5/8", but not disconcertingly so. It rolls a bit, but doesn't feel like it's going to tip you in.
Not concerned about this personally, as I'm only 5'4" / 75kg, and I have my 12 6 bullet for lumpy stuff, and the F16 for downwinders.
So leaving aside surf, I reckon these 3 SIC boards fill the quiver perfectly.
Paddling :
Hard to tell so far, as I've only paddled it 3 times with me in an unfit state. But :
The nose engages gradually, and is sensitive to fore/aft stance. At the moment I'm standing astride the handle, or an inch or so forward.
Stern drag is non-existent, at least with my 75kg on it. Significant tail rocker in the last 2-3 feet.
Sprinting - wow! It lifts out of the water noticeably and doesn't seem to hit a top speed - keeps accelerating. Would be really useful if I was 30 years younger & fitter...
but paddling at a steady pace it's not faster than any other board I don't think. May be different over a long distance as it is clearly an easily driven shape.
Chop - tail rocker allows you to move back without dragging the stern. It's a board that is "all nose", so I still don't expect it to be overly brilliant in our Port Phillip chop.
Side wind - high topsides, but still a low deck. Will be significantly better than a lot of those DJ "boof" boards...
Downwind - unknown as yet, but it seems to want to sniff it's way downwind quickly. I probably won't get to explore this fully as I have my F16, but hoping to do a light DW with some friends on Monday (Anzac day). Suffice to say so far that it's happy poking it's nose downwind in short, steep chop, without the stern wanting to wash around the front or wanting to skew off sideways.
Ooh Aah factor :
Yep, lots of that. Everyone loves the look of the board and the way it goes through the water.
Me happy? You bet!
Glad to hear you are OK, and thanks for the update. It sounds like a great board, and I'm very envious. Heal quickly mate.
Finally got to see Helmy's board this morning.
Impressive looking, beautifully finished.
Next to a V2 it's a big board.
Rear view, 17'4" Bullet added.
Wish I had the 14 V1 there.
Family resemblance to the Bullet apparent in the rails.
Massive and reassuring.
Tail rocker pronounced, particularly in the last 3 feet or so.
Helmy cruising.
As a balance challenged 54 year old maybe 20 kilos heavier and 6" taller (now there's a measure of the success of metrification) I am less than comfortable on it.
Handled the weight OK, fast, glide forever, but only a matter of time until I fall off.
Nose lifts on paddle strokes.
Stern seems to stay clear of water, with only V wake from clean exit.
Not dragging a hole in the water behind it despite wide stern.
I reckon in flat water like this - glamour morning by the way - worth moving forward to keep nose down / waterline long / stern clear.
14 V2 behind.
You might be right about that paddle being too long Mark.
Nicely trimmed and smiling.
After coffee navigating shallows.
Stern sitting nicely clear there.
I reckon that just forward of the handle stance is a good starting point.
I'll stick to my big boards I think.
Noz, You forgot to mention the colour co-ordinated boardies!
Think we'll have to start calling Mark T. "spider man"!!
Select to expand quoteHelmy said..
Noz, You forgot to mention the colour co-ordinated boardies!
Think we'll have to start calling Mark T. "spider man"!!
And drink bottle I notice
I just got done racing my FX 14 x 25 in the Carolina Cup. I am happy to report that this was my fastest run yet over the past three years of racing. I averaged right at 5.1 mph over 6.5 miles and beat my total time from the X-14 Pro from last year by 55 seconds. It is hard to compare conditions from one year to the next, but I will say that this seemed like a more challenging year with a 10 mph side wind and a fair amount of boat wakes during the entire race. The FX was very stable and comfortable to paddle, which allowed me to concentrate on my stroke. I only got out of shape once, when an unseen boat wake surprised me. The big rails easily saved me yet again. I never really even got a good downwind push at any point during the race. I wish that I had because that is an area when this board really flies. I can now say from experience that this is a fast race board and every bit as fast or faster than the X 14 Pro. It is also much more comfortable to ride. I have a friend who is a bit younger and faster than me. He was riding the X-14 Pro and fell in twice during the race.
I spoke with a couple of my really fast SIC ambassador friends about the FX at the race. I explained that I thought that the board was generally faster standing slightly behind the center of the board. They laughed at me and said that for fun they had just drag raced a 24 wide Pro lite against the FX up wind (about 12-15 mph wind) and FX smoked the Pro Lite. He said he was ridding 6-8 inches ahead of the handle. Seems unthinkable to me. I probably out weigh either of them by 40 pounds though. I would be interested to hear what others think about riding significantly forward in up wind conditions.
By the way, I did get to ride the Starboard Allstar 14 x 25 carbon briefly. It was incredibly stable and much more so than what you would expect from a 25 wide board. It felt like I could have ridden a 23. I did not put a watch on it. My Garmin battery was dead. However, it seemed super fast upwind (12-15mph wind) , as noted by others. Wow!! When I turned back downwind, I was not as impressed. It floated me very well. I was left with a really good impression about the Allstar, which is remarkable considering the very short time I was on it.
Just an interesting note, I was talking with a female racer the day after the race. Her new $4K Javelin LE cracked in half due to an oncoming wave at the start. She was on it and paddled through the wave and she did not fall in. She finished the 13 mile race with a cracked board and thought there was something wrong with her. Looks like a warranty claim.
Great report, Rideordie, and that sounds like an excellent race performance. Interesting what you say about the All Star too. Cheers for the info.
A little left field perhaps but do you guys see the potential for an FX 17 in the 14? (with some mods)? From the photos (only) it looks a little LOWPRESSURE to me.
I am not sure what you mean by lowpressure, but I seen no reason to produce a 17 FX. Little to no demand and 17 Bullets already rule.
I would certainly be interested in an FX17 type board.
The 14' is too tippy for me, but I like the style of board.
No doubt they would be some demand, but not enough to mass produce. I am sure Mark Raaphorst would build you a custom FX 17 if you want it, but I would not expect it in the catalogue.
I think there are probably more "ex-racers" around now than you'd think, who are interested in a UL board. But we don't want highly specialised ULs like are available at the moment, we want versatile ULs instead, like longer FXs, UL versions of the All Star, etc. The problem with buying an UL now is not just that you can't race it, it's that it's a one-trick pony so won't get used often.
My thoughts exactly. I don't want or need an UL for big ole Hawaii-style rolling open ocean swell but for flat water, down breezing and short period wind waves that generally prevail around my neck of the woods an UL "style" FX would be on the money I reckon. I expect there'd be a whole lot more in that situation than UL Bullet wannahaves. Consequently perhaps not out of the question for off the shelf production.....eventually!
Select to expand quoteRideordie said..
I just got done racing my FX 14 x 25 in the Carolina Cup. I am happy to report that this was my fastest run yet over the past three years of racing. I averaged right at 5.1 mph over 6.5 miles and beat my total time from the X-14 Pro from last year by 55 seconds. It is hard to compare conditions from one year to the next, but I will say that this seemed like a more challenging year with a 10 mph side wind and a fair amount of boat wakes during the entire race. The FX was very stable and comfortable to paddle, which allowed me to concentrate on my stroke. I only got out of shape once, when an unseen boat wake surprised me. The big rails easily saved me yet again. I never really even got a good downwind push at any point during the race. I wish that I had because that is an area when this board really flies. I can now say from experience that this is a fast race board and every bit as fast or faster than the X 14 Pro. It is also much more comfortable to ride. I have a friend who is a bit younger and faster than me. He was riding the X-14 Pro and fell in twice during the race.
Disclaimer up front - I had to check Rideordies speed to make sure I was FASTER before I posted!
Just completed our annual Lakes Entrance paddle over the weekend.
27k's / 16.8 miles from Paynesville to Lakes Entrance (Vic). Flat water grind in the sun, with the added pleasure of a 5 knot headwind for about half the race and a slight incoming tide the whole race. Strongest headwind was (of course) the last 2k's to the finish.
Posted a time of 3 hours 17 minutes, averaging 8.23 k/hr. So slightly faster than Rideordie at 8.21 k/hr, and I'll take the moral victory given the distance as well.
No drafting opportunities - the young bucks didn't seem to want to help the old blokes - where has respect for the elders gone I ask? - so it was an "unassisted" paddle.
Finished second in the over 50's division - beaten by the far-too-fit (and younger!) Warwick Lee on a DC dugout.
I reiterate Rideordies comments above, with the added comment that the board lifts and accelerates significantly when pushed. And I think the 25" width eventually has an advantage in a longer distance, without the board being too tippy. At the end of the race I glanced over my shoulder to make sure that I had "put away" my closest age-group rival, only to see him almost onto my stern. So I had to sprint the last 1.5k's, which nearly killed me - seriously. At the end of the race I looked to see how much I had opened up on him, only to realise that it was actually a different competitor, and leader from the 13k race that I had shaken off. So even after 26k's I was able to get the board to lift and generate enough speed over fresher & younger paddlers.
Not sure if I'd recommend racing 27ks when you're 50+, but certainly the board is better than this paddler!
27k race at 50+... Bravo. I know all too well EXACTLY what you mean. Great pace too.
I have NO idea how Dave Kalama can still beat Kai (see recent Olukai race). That is some freaky mind-over-matter stuff.
And before someone who is under 50 chirps in that "age is all in the mind", well come back and tell me that in 10 years' time. If age was all in the mind none of us would die.
Wow Helmy!! That is an impressive performance and over that long of a distance!! Glad to see you also validating the FX racing potential!! It is also pleasurable to paddle. The narrow width let's me get my paddle more vertical and my legs are fresh at the end of a paddle. The big rails have saved me several times and it inspires confidence. You don't have to focus on your balance as much, so you can concentrate on your stroke, effort and stroke rate, breathing, directions, etc. I was thinking that this would be a really good distance board and you have proven it!! Excellent work!!
I can't believe that no-one has posted to this topic for nearly a week now. What is going on???
Ok, I'll have to say something then. What do you think FX stands for? Is it shorthand for "special effects", as in movie lingo, or does it describe how the forum members have reacted to finally getting their new boards - f&@kin' ecstatic?
Select to expand quoteArea10 said..
I can't believe that no-one has posted to this topic for nearly a week now. What is going on???
Ok, I'll have to say something then. What do you think FX stands for? Is it shorthand for "special effects", as in movie lingo, or does it describe how the forum members have reacted to finally getting their new boards - f&@kin' ecstatic?
And just as I was about to put on a post just for the sake of getting us back at the top of the page...
No idea what the FX stands for, but it could equally be known as the SIC "ooohaaah" model. That's the reaction that I've gauged from most people when they've see it.
It's quality, it's sleek, it's sexy, it's red, so of course it's fast - especially when you can get the longer distance conditions for the 25" to start working for you.
I'm interested to hear in this thread that you think that the thick rails on the FX have "saved" you at tricky moments. Isn't there a trade-off with standing so high in terms of cross-wind and cross-chop performance? How does the FX quarter wind and swell (let's say 20 knots and 1-2ft bumps)?
Btw Rideordie, the debate about where to stand upwind is a complex one. It seems to differ according to the board and the conditions. But I suspect that the general principle is that when going upwind it's harder to push a volume that is in front of you than it is to drag volume that is behind you. Standing forward will reduce the volume in front of you, and help keep the board more level over bumps. By contrast, if you stand back there is more leverage acting on you, in effect, as the nose area lifts. As the nose lifts the tail drops, like an anchor. Then it is all about tail shape and tail rocker as to what effect that has. But as I say, the most effective strategies often seem to me to be board-specific. Some boards get squirrelly if you go forward on them when upwind, others seem to get more stable. I've not entirely worked the whole thing out myself. What for instance makes the 2016 All Star apparently quite so good upwind?
Upwind performance is something that is rarely discussed, unfortunately. Does anyone actually know the principles behind what makes a good upwind board, beyond obvious things like narrow width and pointy noses?
