gday probably already a covered subject so sorry if I am rehashing but why would you buy a 14'ft board instead of a unlimited if you were going to use it in the ocean cheers K
Krist, I have a 14' Allstar and it is a long frickin board, an unlimited board would be a real pain to store and transport. Surfing waves on my 14 foot is fun but challenging, not sure how well I would go on an unlimited....
A 17ft SIC Bullet weighs 35lbs and has a rudder. It depends a lot on your local environment as to whether an UL makes sense. The first time you try to get home on one when your local beach is a shingle and pebble head-high shorey, you'll realise one problem with ULs: Hard to control in shorebreak, high chance of ending up with a freeform pile of carbon, and/or or you ending up a freeform pile of organs.
Some people find the sheer size of ULs intimidating. You tend to pilot them rather than surf them: They can feel more like boats than boards, so you lose a bit of that "Boardsports" connection.
ULs usually have rudders. Rudders break, need constant maintenance, and catch weed. They are of limited use in some conditions, and worse than a fixed fin in others (eg. surf).
ULs are heavy and hard to carry in any kind of significant wind.
They are hard to load on vehicles and stick out the back/front in a way that can present a transport danger (easy to forget it's there and back the rear end into something, and good luck in a tight parking space...).
They are more expensive.
17ft+ is longer than a standard build garage in many countries (eg. UK) so presents a storage issue. Where are you going to put it if you are an urban dweller? You can't leave something that long on your car...
Big boards can be an absolute PITA to try to control in strong crosswinds and cross-chop. Anyone who has wiped out in 35 knots and had their UL spiral into the sky on the end of their leash will remember that experience forever.
Rudder mechs tend to be placed exactly where you'd want to stand to paddle the boards in pure flat water, which limits the board's use. They also obstruct your footwork around the deck which limits the board's use in many conditions. For instance, to get a big board into a bump if just downbreezing (say, 15 knots) in short period stuff, you need to stand well forward and paddle like hell (they are big beasts to get moving, requiring plenty of power if you don't have wind help). But you often can't easily stand forward on a UL because you'd be tripping over or standing on the rudder streering arm.
So, ULs tend to be quite specialised boards that work great in certain locations and conditions and for certain people with certain vehicles, accommodation, skills, and wallets. For the rest, the ownership and use hassles can mean they are more trouble than they are worth.
I have had both the best and worst SUP experiences I've ever had on my UL board. They are extreme boards and so give extreme experiences. Many people prefer convenience and fewer extremes.
ULs also provoke extreme opinions. Advocates of them will treat anyone who does not ride an UL as a lower class of water-user. They will never acknowledge that ULs might ever be troublesome, or that rudders might be a PITA sometimes. This extreme evangelism might repel you rather than attract you to them. So if you have a big ego and a domineering and dogmatic personality you might want to give ULs a miss because they could be bad for your social relationships ;)
Select to expand quotecrakas said..
If person can be talked out of an Unlimited, that would certainly do it..
What a lot of people don't realise is that the option to have a custom UL made for you is a very real thing in Australia right now. There are several manufacturers/shapers that will do an UL for you for probably less than many 14ft production boards.
By going custom you can specify length; it doesn't have to be 17'4". You can specify rocker, volume distribution........................
Theres a lot to be said for a locally made custom UL.
Select to expand quoteHumanCartoon said..
Hey Krist...have you looked at the new 14s from Walk on Water?
I have HC the muon i think it's called is a lovely board
Select to expand quoteArea10 said..
A 17ft SIC Bullet weighs 35lbs and has a rudder. It depends a lot on your local environment as to whether an UL makes sense. The first time you try to get home on one when your local beach is a shingle and pebble head-high shorey, you'll realise one problem with ULs: Hard to control in shorebreak, high chance of ending up with a freeform pile of carbon, and/or or you ending up a freeform pile of organs.
Some people find the sheer size of ULs intimidating. You tend to pilot them rather than surf them: They can feel more like boats than boards, so you lose a bit of that "Boardsports" connection.
ULs usually have rudders. Rudders break, need constant maintenance, and catch weed. They are of limited use in some conditions, and worse than a fixed fin in others (eg. surf).
ULs are heavy and hard to carry in any kind of significant wind.
They are hard to load on vehicles and stick out the back/front in a way that can present a transport danger (easy to forget it's there and back the rear end into something, and good luck in a tight parking space...).
They are more expensive.
17ft+ is longer than a standard build garage in many countries (eg. UK) so presents a storage issue. Where are you going to put it if you are an urban dweller? You can't leave something that long on your car...
Big boards can be an absolute PITA to try to control in strong crosswinds and cross-chop. Anyone who has wiped out in 35 knots and had their UL spiral into the sky on the end of their leash will remember that experience forever.
Rudder mechs tend to be placed exactly where you'd want to stand to paddle the boards in pure flat water, which limits the board's use. They also obstruct your footwork around the deck which limits the board's use in many conditions. For instance, to get a big board into a bump if just downbreezing (say, 15 knots) in short period stuff, you need to stand well forward and paddle like hell (they are big beasts to get moving, requiring plenty of power if you don't have wind help). But you often can't easily stand forward on a UL because you'd be tripping over or standing on the rudder streering arm.
So, ULs tend to be quite specialised boards that work great in certain locations and conditions and for certain people with certain vehicles, accommodation, skills, and wallets. For the rest, the ownership and use hassles can mean they are more trouble than they are worth.
I have had both the best and worst SUP experiences I've ever had on my UL board. They are extreme boards and so give extreme experiences. Many people prefer convenience and fewer extremes.
ULs also provoke extreme opinions. Advocates of them will treat anyone who does not ride an UL as a lower class of water-user. They will never acknowledge that ULs might ever be troublesome, or that rudders might be a PITA sometimes. This extreme evangelism might repel you rather than attract you to them. So if you have a big ego and a domineering and dogmatic personality you might want to give ULs a miss because they could be bad for your social relationships ;)
totally on point and very insightful, thanks Area 10
Select to expand quoteKieranr said..
What a lot of people don't realise is that the option to have a custom UL made for you is a very real thing in Australia right now. There are several manufacturers/shapers that will do an UL for you for probably less than many 14ft production boards.
By going custom you can specify length; it doesn't have to be 17'4". You can specify rocker, volume distribution........................
Theres a lot to be said for a locally made custom UL.
That always another option Kieranr , been looking at deep for ideas
Select to expand quoteArea10 said..
A 17ft SIC Bullet weighs 35lbs and has a rudder. It depends a lot on your local environment as to whether an UL makes sense. The first time you try to get home on one when your local beach is a shingle and pebble head-high shorey, you'll realise one problem with ULs: Hard to control in shorebreak, high chance of ending up with a freeform pile of carbon, and/or or you ending up a freeform pile of organs.
Some people find the sheer size of ULs intimidating. You tend to pilot them rather than surf them: They can feel more like boats than boards, so you lose a bit of that "Boardsports" connection.
ULs usually have rudders. Rudders break, need constant maintenance, and catch weed. They are of limited use in some conditions, and worse than a fixed fin in others (eg. surf).
ULs are heavy and hard to carry in any kind of significant wind.
They are hard to load on vehicles and stick out the back/front in a way that can present a transport danger (easy to forget it's there and back the rear end into something, and good luck in a tight parking space...).
They are more expensive.
17ft+ is longer than a standard build garage in many countries (eg. UK) so presents a storage issue. Where are you going to put it if you are an urban dweller? You can't leave something that long on your car...
Big boards can be an absolute PITA to try to control in strong crosswinds and cross-chop. Anyone who has wiped out in 35 knots and had their UL spiral into the sky on the end of their leash will remember that experience forever.
Rudder mechs tend to be placed exactly where you'd want to stand to paddle the boards in pure flat water, which limits the board's use. They also obstruct your footwork around the deck which limits the board's use in many conditions. For instance, to get a big board into a bump if just downbreezing (say, 15 knots) in short period stuff, you need to stand well forward and paddle like hell (they are big beasts to get moving, requiring plenty of power if you don't have wind help). But you often can't easily stand forward on a UL because you'd be tripping over or standing on the rudder streering arm.
So, ULs tend to be quite specialised boards that work great in certain locations and conditions and for certain people with certain vehicles, accommodation, skills, and wallets. For the rest, the ownership and use hassles can mean they are more trouble than they are worth.
I have had both the best and worst SUP experiences I've ever had on my UL board. They are extreme boards and so give extreme experiences. Many people prefer convenience and fewer extremes.
ULs also provoke extreme opinions. Advocates of them will treat anyone who does not ride an UL as a lower class of water-user. They will never acknowledge that ULs might ever be troublesome, or that rudders might be a PITA sometimes. This extreme evangelism might repel you rather than attract you to them. So if you have a big ego and a domineering and dogmatic personality you might want to give ULs a miss because they could be bad for your social relationships ;)
Yup. What A10 said. ....
Mine is is on order, and according to my dealer, the container is in Vancouver. So only another 4000 k's to go.
I've tried to stay out but I can't.
Acknowledging A10's comments, expertise, and I have total respect for his opinions, and I am not worthy to criticise him, but.....
I paddle an unlimited most days as an everyday board.
The effort is sometimes significant, but the rewards are too.
I paddle the bigger boards mainly because of my age induced uncoordinatedness.
I can paddle a narrower 17' odd board than 14' due to the increased stability offered by the "more board under my feet" factor.
I have the car, I have the storage, but not at home where it lives on the car.
It doesn't stick out the back or front of the VW Carravelle.
Weight varies.
My 17'4" Bullet is 18.5 kg, The 17' F16 is 15.4 kg, the 17'6" JM is 13.5 kg, the 17' Naish LE 17 is 11kg.
Sometimes challenging to carry, but the blanket statement doesn't cover it.
All have loops to thread the paddle and carry, making them easier to carry than a 14, although I have followed my Bullet up the beach being dragged by the airboarne board.
I have a small step ladder I walk up with the board on my head to load it.
Sometimes the wind is challenging.
I have the wallet, but don't necessarily need it.
Prices I have paid for my UL boards are $900, $1600, $2500, , $ 2000, $1600, $2500, $1200, $1200.
Yes there are some there I have not mentioned or told my wife about.
But none are super expensive.
I have chosen to buy several, because I can afford it, but that does not mean they are expensive.
I have to park on the street at home. I store the boards at my factory where I work in my office, and load two in the evening for the following morning - one a conservative choice based on predicted conditions, one a wildly optimistic choice if the forecast is totally wrong.
Cross wind and cross chop is where they excel. The rudder lets you counter the nose being blown off, I have to tell myself not to look at the oncoming waves because I am not actually going to have to pre meditate a reaction. I do a lot of paddling upwind / cross wind in waves that I could not do on a 14' board.
Worth mentioning I do not favour unlimiteds because I am any kind of hero, I favour them because I am a now balance challenged 54 year old and they make things easier for me.
I will agree that my attempt to surf the Naish 17 on the bar break at Merimbula resulted in an ankle testing tow towards the beach at a pretty fast rate.
But a rare occurance., and probably not that much more severe than a 14 attached to the same ankle.
Agree the tiller (it is called Area 10) can get in the way, but ignore it and walk on it / over it)
Man up. and stomp on it / ignore it.
pause to look for some photos.
The Naish LE17 is a disaster with twin non removable tillers.
Try to stand outside them / walk over them.
Most of the time irrevelant.
Board is so long and fine it won't turn anyway.
Good upwind right in front, but the boards getting pretty narrow up there, but just step on / over steering and ignore it.
17' F16, clearer path forward and more room, but again just stomp over it and ignore it.
Agree the tillers may limit movement, but F16 gives a pretty clear path past it
I will agree that unlimited will work better for some than others, but don't write them off based on advice from others.
They have made my paddling experience, probably not in the way they were intended to.
Last paragraph I disagree totally.
And maybe you got the angry pills out too early in the evening, Area 10.
Here we have very little extreme evangelism between types / brands of water craft.
Thankyou Nozza , the F16 is the board I have had my eye on if I were to go UL . I like to paddle alone so I consider the extra size comforting to tell truth , suppose at the end of the day I need to demo demo demo . Thanks all for your help
Select to expand quoteNozza said...
I've tried to stay out but I can't.
Acknowledging A10's comments, expertise, and I have total respect for his opinions, and I am not worthy to criticise him, but.....
I paddle an unlimited most days as an everyday board.
The effort is sometimes significant, but the rewards are too.
I paddle the bigger boards mainly because of my age induced uncoordinatedness.
I can paddle a narrower 17' odd board than 14' due to the increased stability offered by the "more board under my feet" factor.
I have the car, I have the storage, but not at home where it lives on the car.
It doesn't stick out the back or front of the VW Carravelle.
Weight varies.
My 17'4" Bullet is 18.5 kg, The 17' F16 is 15.4 kg, the 17'6" JM is 13.5 kg, the 17' Naish LE 17 is 11kg.
Sometimes challenging to carry, but the blanket statement doesn't cover it.
All have loops to thread the paddle and carry, making them easier to carry than a 14, although I have followed my Bullet up the beach being dragged by the airboarne board.
I have a small step ladder I walk up with the board on my head to load it.
Sometimes the wind is challenging.
I have the wallet, but don't necessarily need it.
Prices I have paid for my UL boards are $900, $1600, $2500, , $ 2000, $1600, $2500, $1200, $1200.
Yes there are some there I have not mentioned or told my wife about.
But none are super expensive.
I have chosen to buy several, because I can afford it, but that does not mean they are expensive.
I have to park on the street at home. I store the boards at my factory where I work in my office, and load two in the evening for the following morning - one a conservative choice based on predicted conditions, one a wildly optimistic choice if the forecast is totally wrong.
Cross wind and cross chop is where they excel. The rudder lets you counter the nose being blown off, I have to tell myself not to look at the oncoming waves because I am not actually going to have to pre meditate a reaction. I do a lot of paddling upwind / cross wind in waves that I could not do on a 14' board.
Worth mentioning I do not favour unlimiteds because I am any kind of hero, I favour them because I am a now balance challenged 54 year old and they make things easier for me.
I will agree that my attempt to surf the Naish 17 on the bar break at Merimbula resulted in an ankle testing tow towards the beach at a pretty fast rate.
But a rare occurance., and probably not that much more severe than a 14 attached to the same ankle.
Agree the tiller (it is called Area 10) can get in the way, but ignore it and walk on it / over it)
Man up. and stomp on it / ignore it.
pause to look for some photos.
The Naish LE17 is a disaster with twin non removable tillers.
Try to stand outside them / walk over them.
Most of the time irrevelant.
Board is so long and fine it won't turn anyway.
Good upwind right in front, but the boards getting pretty narrow up there, but just step on / over steering and ignore it.
17' F16, clearer path forward and more room, but again just stomp over it and ignore it.
Agree the tillers may limit movement, but F16 gives a pretty clear path past it
I will agree that unlimited will work better for some than others, but don't write them off based on advice from others.
They have made my paddling experience, probably not in the way they were intended to.
Last paragraph I disagree totally.
And maybe you got the angry pills out too early in the evening, Area 10.
Here we have very little extreme evangelism between types / brands of water craft.
Thank you Nozza. Yet another affirmation that my soon to be Bullet 17-4 is everything I'm hoping for.. And then some.
You are right, Nozza. But the OP asked for reasons why everyone doesn't have a UL board. So that was what I gave. If they'd asked for reasons why people DO have UL boards then I could have written an equally long post listing the benefits of a UL.
I've got UL, 14s and 12-6s and they all have their place and get used. You are dead right hat the main benefit of a UL (other than the glide) is that you can go a lot narrower than you can with an equivalent 14.
All these boards have their place. If you detected a bit of cheesedoffness, it's because I'm getting a bit peeved at people basically presenting a very one-sided view, and I thought I'd present the counter-argument for a change.
But yes, absolutely, there are a lot of upsides for a lot of people. In fact I'm currently considering ordering my second UL...prob a custom. Just got to give some thought to exactly what I want. But I'd never oversell ULs. They aren't for everyone. But that's fine: It's all good.
Btw, I removed one side of the tiller on my Naish pretty easily, so that can help with the standing area thing a bit.
)
When Jeremy Riggs was here in Oz recently he said (or at least I thought he said) that when taking intermediate paddlers out on the Maliko run, he often gets them on SIC 14 foot RUDDERED boards. Maybe that's a better option when you want an UL but don't have the garage space....?
) 
Select to expand quotesteve p said...
When Jeremy Riggs was here in Oz recently he said (or at least I thought he said) that when taking intermediate paddlers out on the Maliko run, he often gets them on SIC 14 foot RUDDERED boards. Maybe that's a better option when you want an UL but don't have the garage space....?
First, it's Maliko. Deep water, long fetch, very different conditions than many, or perhaps even most, DW in. Second, he'll be teaching them how to use a rudder so they can progress up to using his ruddered UL boards. But the top racers using fixed fin 14s are getting awfully close in times to the guys on ruddered UL boards these days, even at Maliko and M2O. So maybe he's using ruddered 14s for teaching purposes, not because they are inherently faster.
Or maybe he's just not that good at using fixed fin boards, having grown up on ruddered UL boards and other watercraft that have rudders. You use what you've got used to, regardless of length. It takes as much skill to get the best from a fixie as it does to get the best from a rudder.
The whole rudder vs. fixed fin thing reminds me of the fixed vs geared debate in cycling, eg.cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/1285/bikes/fixed-vs-gear-bikes/index.html
At the risk of repeating myself, I would go the rudder every time, even on a 14'.
SIC Maui have been taunting me with a new old stock 2013 14' V1 with steering for months that I can click "Add to cart" on as many times as I like because they don't sell to Australia.
I would put up with the inconvenience of the tiller on the deck for the quick turn in the trough between waves, or holding the nose up in a cross wind - friend who is a newer paddler than me on his first 14, caught out in increasing breeze last Sunday morning asked "How do you stop it going straight down wind when you don't want it to?"
With a rudder.
We don't have A10's weed problems here, and I'm not interested in speed / racing.
And I still remember riding fixed wheel racing bikes to the velodrome on the road as a juvenile - the Highbury Road hill was the best argument for freewheel ever.
This one.
http://www.sicmaui.com/bullet-14-w-a-s-s-dcc-2013/
Same colour as my V1 and everything.
Select to expand quoteArea10 said...steve p said...
When Jeremy Riggs was here in Oz recently he said (or at least I thought he said) that when taking intermediate paddlers out on the Maliko run, he often gets them on SIC 14 foot RUDDERED boards. Maybe that's a better option when you want an UL but don't have the garage space....?
First, it's Maliko. Deep water, long fetch, very different conditions than many, or perhaps even most, DW in. Second, he'll be teaching them how to use a rudder so they can progress up to using his ruddered UL boards. But the top racers using fixed fin 14s are getting awfully close in times to the guys on ruddered UL boards these days, even at Maliko and M2O. So maybe he's using ruddered 14s for teaching purposes, not because they are inherently faster.
Or maybe he's just not that good at using fixed fin boards, having grown up on ruddered UL boards and other watercraft that have rudders. You use what you've got used to, regardless of length. It takes as much skill to get the best from a fixie as it does to get the best from a rudder.
The whole rudder vs. fixed fin thing reminds me of the fixed vs geared debate in cycling, eg.cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/1285/bikes/fixed-vs-gear-bikes/index.html
Area 10, you know as well as anyone it's not about the speed, it's about the fun. That's what JR is teaching.
SIC Maui don't sell to Australia?
To my knowledge you can indeed get them to send boards here; customs at least.
Member 'Grenfell' has some beauties here in Sydney.
I reckon you'd love hollow moulded ultralight 14 V3 Nozza. In custom colours of course!! :)
i was very tempted to get my hollow V1 shipped here since I got the new handshaped V3 but couldn't really justify The added expense.
Decided to sell it rather than have 2 boards on Maui.
I'm sure you can get customs here, and maybe one day I will.
I can afford it but not justify it at the moment.
I need to get a lot better at paddling before I am worthy of those beautiful craft.
I'm having enough fun scouring the local second hand market.
And trying to defeat the booby traps on Grenfell's shed.....
Online store is not available in your country, check your local dealers for availability.
Our alleged local dealer, when I went in last year and asked to buy a 7" weedless fin said "Hey, the Boss is in Hawaii at the moment, he could pick one up for you"
Helmy could have had a free 12'6" Bullet after dropping off the demo board "Just leave it on the nature strip" where it stayed.
Unbelievably useless, probably holding back SIC in Victoria beyond measure.
Presumably the distributor in Australia for SIC is Flow Sports? It can be better to buy direct from them rather than deal with a useless retailer. Having days that, I'm not sure that SIC Maui are always well served by Flow Sports... But you could let the Distributors know your experiences with your local retailer (and if that fails, work your way up the Distributors' food chain) and effect some change. Don't put up with that crap!
The local SIC retailer in Melbourne happens to be the distributor of SIC nationally. I don't paddle SIC but I know the people in there and I know a lot of people who have bought SIC from them - everyone seems to have nothing but good words for them so I can't understand this animosity.
Just my impression from admittedly limited dealings.
Apologise if I have caused any offence.
