simsup

hi.Has anybody been on standupzone and checked out the talk about the original simsup.
the boards look fairly odd but the zoners are raving about them.
the closest board ive rode to these are the psh hull paddlers and hull rippers.
has anybody seen or demo one, ta

Short and fat, great fun in small surf I would imagine. In decent size surf they would be ordinary, but I could be wrong

Here is the review I wrote on standupzone on my 8' Simmons: (before being banned and my posts deleted)

With all the comments about miniSims just had to add this photo. (Check the hair & you can probably guess the era). It was a Bennett shaped by an American who later went to WA & was involved in quads (- but I can't remember his name. Maybe someone else can). He wanted to make it smaller but I was "an old guy". How did it perform? It was fast!!

Well, in Patrice defence, I just videotaped him on my Simmons board this summer in Corsica and put all the waves on youtube without editing out anything, to convey the feeling of a "real world" session (and I didn't have the skill to made good edits anyways :-)

But it is true that this board does not obey like a modern shortboard. It is not "nimble" as a traditional performance board where you "dominate" the board and "pump" it into turns. You have to let it kind of "get up to speed" during 1/2 to 1 second, and then pilot it, but the speed maintained during all the ride is exhilarating. This is not the same feeling I get with the other fish shape.With the fish, you are on a skateboard, with a Simmons, you have High-G compressing turns, and you make sections you thought impossible. I must say I didn't get the "ah ah" moment on it till early this year, I guess last year I was trying to ride it like a normal board. To enjoy a Simmons, you have to get into the "flow" of it. I never rode a mini-Simmons sufboard, but people who tried them tell me it is the same kind of feeling.

It is stable... for a 8'0", but its low volume rails and low front rocker does not make it the best beginner-friendly board. It is however stabler than the biggest boards in my quiver, the Gong 8'3" Empire and th Gerry Lopez Little Darling 8'10", So I used it for my teaching SUP to my daughter's boyfriend this summer... but let's face it, he would have been much better off with a 10'...
I would not advise it in rough conditions for a non-surfer, as the low front rocker + the wide tail need some surfing knowledge to not nosedive on suddenly peaking waves, but once you get the hang of it, it is quite fun. And beginners will really have fun with these shapes in mellow soft waves.

PS: On the fizzle of wide fishes, I found out 5 fins makes wonder with those...

Sorry guys but what I see you guys posting here and what's on "The Zone" look to be similar in shape but vastly different in development. I'm probably very wrong but it seems that the gong boards are 10 years behind the original simsup. Having surfed for over 45 years I can guarantee that while nose design is important, rail design is crucial and thats where the difference seems to lie. I started on boards that had very little kick in the nose and have seen them almost look like bananas in the early to mid seventies. Fixed fins went out last century. Everything goes full circle, I reckon George Greenough's spoons aren't too far away. We have a surf demigod in Victoria affectionately known as Yoda. His personal designs are based on his boat building expertise and remind me a little of the simsup. he has been seen paddling up the face of an 8 ft Bells monster, flick it around and start riding when all the short boarders and longboarders are paddling for their lives. The point is the surfer makes the difference. Like Wayne Lynch, Dean Snow could have been anything he wanted to be. Sometimes the need for self justification, omniscient comment and commercial gain overtakes the benefit of the sport. I hope that this thread hasn't taken that direction as from what I've seen and read Original Simsups certainly have a place in the quiver if you're that way inclined

Not really understanding what you are saying too Leroy? If you are saying Gong's Simsup is a bit outdated in design - you may well be right...I'm not expert on them. What I would say is that some of the older designs (fixed fins or not) are still some of the best by miles. Taking my surfboards for example....traditional twin fin fish copied from Steve Lis design is brilliant/timeless and I have a pig shaped longboard...superb. Also have a McCoy Nugget....brilliant.

Anyways....where were we? I'd like to try a SimSup but not sure about that tail......and I'd prefer more nose kick...so probably looking at a diff design

Ahhhh - it's the promotion of Gong Sups you're really on about really...will leave that one to Colas as he's obviously got affiliations.

Leroy - in his defence...I don't know the guy but he's given me a lot of good advice in the past re SUPs...and has never bad mouthed other brands to me...even on private messages...unlike others that I've encountered. Personally, I have no connections with Gong - just surf one of their SUPs and rate it very well. Also surf Fanatic and rate them too...and they are heaps tougher but obviously more expensive...go on the Zone and it seems there's dealers talking about them all the time....just saying.

Maybe Colas you should put a signature on your posts to say you are a Gong ambassador so it is clear in case anyone reckons you are posting for commercial reasons....personally I reckon you have a lot of good advice to give and I doubt many over in Aus are really going to buy Gong anyway.

No worries Leroy - good to get cranky pants on now and again

Yup - site sponsors on the Zone pay and get away with more...probably why Colas was booted off.

Incidentally...was having a good look at this Original Simsup boards - like the look of those big time. Anyways.....surf is up over here so SUP in on the roof rack

Here you go: The question was asked why did his Gong AS Simmons Sup not carry vee or double concaves come with quad set up...instead of big concave between the twin keel fins?

He said:

Hello, Just because it is a real Simmons, not a regular wide board. The concave on the back third of the bottom portion is shaped to Increase the Ability and turn the speed potential. A wide board without this acts like a regular concave shape, Just have more surface. This is not a Simmons in my opinion. Any kind of board takes the water from the front portion of the bottom. The thing is how many to take, how many to keep, and how and when we Have to evacuate it. was regular board, the relationship with the entry, capture and release of the water is smooth and quite constant. was As GONG Simmons, i do not take a lot of water with the nose thanks to the belly, convex. It pushs the water on EACH side of the nose. A flat bottom on the nose takes all the water, and a concave bottom nose takes more water and concentrate. center On the hand, there is a transition betweens and flat belly. It is made ​​to accelerate the water That comes from the nose and Provide a steady schedule. ppart On the bach of the bottom, i shape a Specific Simmons concave. This concave Have different properties. It ACCELERATES the flow of water. It aussi concentrate the water to the tail. It acts like a turbine. It has regular board the water goes out of the bottom mostly by the rails When you turn. As my goal is the water goes out mostly by the tail. So it Increase the speed and forehead Decrease the side accelerations. You go faster and turns are more clean even if the tail is wide. On the other hand this concave Increase the center rocker. More rocker turn equals more ability. Any question? There is many many more to tell about it. Goal Have you never trust people confused a wide tail was regular shape and a real concept Simmons Adapted to a modern board. This is not the same thing. Of course a wide tail with a double concave works well on small waves. It is just not what we can call a Simmons in my opinion. It is always tricky to argue about an inheritance. Everybody Has His view of it. Goal some point of the Simmons work are very clear. My respects As 99% of 'em. Thanks,


Anways - had a good surf today on my Fanatic...bit choppy though so too much falling in!!!

Hi Colas, I thought that might be the case with the "Ahem" which is why I mentioned it as an interpretation of how you used it in a sentence.. I certainly respect your input into the forum, but as I keep on saying it wasn't an answer to the question. It might have been better off posted as a seperate topic about Simmons style Sups As I said I had my 'cranky pants' on, you must forgive an old man his bad days ( I hope!). All good now keep on doing what you want!!! Cheers and Mahalo Leroy

Thanks leroy, in anycase I understand now your irritation at my "highjacking" of the post.

Well, continuing a bit off topic, the main point of Patrice is that water escape a normal board a bit diagonally on the side (water try to escape the hull pressure by the shortest path, for water close to the rail the sides are closer than the tail). On this subject, I found the research done by Witchcraft the most striking, see: http://www.windsurfermag.com/magazine/twisted-windsurfing-fin-witchcraft-flow-optimised-multifin-thruster/?params=Mjd8MzY3fDA= They used colored strings to look at water flow on sailboards for instance, and experimented with tweakable fin boxes.


This is why side fins are toed-in: to be actually parallel to the water flow !

The problem is that this angle of water flow is not a fixed value. it depend of course of the board direction (trimming on the face, the board goes somewhat sideways anyways), speed (faster => less angle), water depth (the effect is more important close to the hull) and rear hull shape: V will broaden the angle, concave will reduce it. So a big aft concave is a way to keep the water flow straight, and not spill energy pushing water to the sides.

This is not to say that a concave is "better" (what is "better" in surfing anyways?). It just explains that it gives a different feeling, the "hovercraft speed" seekd by Simmons.

HI All,

These Simmons inspired shapes really seem to polarize peoples opinions about board design, discussion on the topic is a great thing in my opinion.

For better or worse here is my 2c....

When it comes to the topic of single concave out the back i can't really get my head around it either. But i suppose we been effectively doing this for decades with tail channels. It should be no huge surprise that a single concave works as we are really only talking within the context of high to low pressure at the moment. The Tommo boards thet stu kennedy is riding also have a fairly radical rear channel/accelerated rocker through the centre rear of the board. On the context of simmons, if you get onto swaylocks there are tons of examples of single concave mini simmons.

I think if you try to achieve the same thing with doubles then I think you will end up with a shape more in the region of the starboard hypersonic which was a windsurf board from the early-mid 2000's. That was a good board that used deep double concaves to handle the water pressure fluctuations, but ultimately was superceeded by refined flatter bottom boards as they had less drag. That board was short for a windsurf board but was quite tracky because of the bottom contours. (Wish i never sold my hyper 105.)

According to the articles Simmons was always looking for smooth flow out the back of the boards. When i was younger i went through a stage where i was into pintails and loved seeing that classic water ski tail type wake they produce, (it was one of my main criteria for rating a board). I moved away from this as board fashion changed. After reading articles on simmons designs it has become obvious that this type of wake is a product of the board creating a large low pressure zone around the tail of the board and the water pressure equalising as the board moves away. This low drag approach seems critical to getting a simmons board to lift much of its displacement out of the water and get planing efficiently.

Not sure if everyone is on the same page as per Simmons designs, Competition boards are cool for competition but not everybody wants to achieve high scoring rides with judges. The type of thinking that there is only one correct approach to designing a board seems to have had a negative impact on board design and it really blows me away that there are so many alternative surfcraft around. I am after a fast flowing down the line, type of experience and find this is where the prone mini simmons work for me so i want to scale up to a sup style.

I think the L41 SimSup is a board that apparently works well, but also looks not too ugly to put off people wanting to own one. When I see that gong board it find it really challenges my ideas of what a board should conform to.

At the end of the day all these boards are operating in very variable conditions with riders looking for different things, if it works for the surfer using it then its good end of story.

Cheers Chris