I'm in the process of playing with some designs of unlimited dw boards on shape3d as one of the next boards I will build. The only unlimited dw board I have paddled is the old Naish 17 so don't have much to go on but just wondering if there are any different things you have to think about when paddleing them or with the design of them which I need to conseder differently to a 14. There was obviously the discussion on tail width not so long ago ?
Make sure the tail can support your weight . If its a good dw board youll be spending a lot of time back. Edges for control surfing from the back. No use having a log style rounded bottom that rolls mostly when you are back instead of turning.
Its a lot different from centre standing steering ace like 14 ft boards.
The rocker is going to be your biggest challenge
do you end up sticking the nose in a lot more than you do on a 14 because of the length or does it end up being compensated for because of the rocker and length?
i have a great design 14 x 26 1/4 that works perfect just wondering how i should modify it I'm thinking going 16' ish dropping down to 24.75 or 24.5" a little more pulled in nose and a little less rocker i will post some pics of the 14 when i can
its been the thinking to have more nose rocker because of the length.
however the trend has been less nose rocker. however there is nothing worse than an unlimited nose diving all over the place.
narrower piercing noses is trendy too but I yet to be convinced. sounds good when its all behind you but get the board a bit sideways and a piercing nose well , good luck.
I don't think we , well the goldie get that good of straight behind conditions enough to warrant that type.
personally I would be having a good look at the v1 sic bullet type rocker- great all rounder rocker imo
yes im tempted to not flatten it too much my 14 is not to far from the 14' bullet which I have along with the 17'4 bullet I have the numbers for.
what I have in mind at the moment is bellow.
one of the main things im going over in my head is the tail trying to get the right compromise between being able to pick up bumps well and but not being so big you have to get right to the leash plug to pick the nose up.
I think I have already sent you the sum total of my knowledge board wise.
Not really qualified to comment paddling wise, but from my limited experience, the 17 V1 Bullet rocker and buoyancy forward allows a non expert paddler to get it wrong and survive.
I can stand rooted to the spot in fear, forget to move back, and the board drives through without misbehaving.
As to the 14 vs 17 question, you can go narrower on a 17 and get the same stability due to more board under the paddler on the longer board.
I think you would need to be in a very precise wave set for 3' difference in board length to be noticeable "fit" wise.
A less rockered, finer bow will always be faster, but you need to be Iron Phil or one of his Maui mates standing on the back 2 ft. of board to paddle the thing.
You beat me to the post by 3 minutes - that's a nice looking board.
Very elegant.
Thoughts, if the tail rocker is right, you don't need to sink it to lift the nose, just get it to water level, so width not that critical. Hard rails for steerability more so.
Boat talk, I would straighten the chines aft from the front of where you have it coloured green to the back to give a nice planing section, leave the tail as is
Select to expand quoteNozza said...
You beat me to the post by 3 minutes - that's a nice looking board.
Very elegant.
Thoughts, if the tail rocker is right, you don't need to sink it to lift the nose, just get it to water level, so width not that critical. Hard rails for steerability more so.
Boat talk, I would straighten the chines aft from the front of where you have it coloured green to the back to give a nice planing section, leave the tail as is
It's actually a top view the green is on the deck side
Select to expand quoteNozza said..
I'd still straighten that bit
which bit exactly can you explain again do you mean on the bottom or the top or out line?
the plan is to go rudder less probably to start with until i have developed a reliable system, is any one rideing 16+ without a rudder?
The bellow board is the mk2 of the 14 it's based on however I'm now on mk which has a few very small changes
Select to expand quotecharlieuk said...Nozza said..
I'd still straighten that bit
which bit exactly can you explain again do you mean on the bottom or the top or out line?
The rails in the mid section should be parallel. Ie. no radius in the plan view.
I'm talking the rail / bottom shape
This is observation only, don't really fully understand the theory.
Here is my measured outline of the V1 Bullet.
Two parallel lines added in the main standing area, and two straights shown in the stepped back surfing area.
Nice looking board too Charlie.
that's interesting I have never noticed that I can kinda see the thinking behind it but not sure im going to go that way like I did with my 14 for were we paddle its all about being able to have a board that is as maneuverable as possible to be able to change direction as fast as possible and that is were I think my 14 beats the bullet v1 although not sure if the 14 bullet has those straight rails?
I don't know about the 14 V1, I have to do this at work so will be a couple of days before I look at it.
But I suspect it will be much the same, if not so pronounced / obvious in the smaller board..
It's plus or minus 10mm from straight to curves in most cases.
Then there is cosmetic shaping to hide the science on top of it.
It's all about clean exit from the water, no drag, you probably know about detached flow and such stuff.
Go to PM
its a interesting concept i have never used on any of mine before its a shame there are not more sic's to look at over here in the uk i will take a look at a my friends 14 when i get the chance
Select to expand quoteSUPerD said..charlieuk said...Nozza said..
I'd still straighten that bit
which bit exactly can you explain again do you mean on the bottom or the top or out line?
The rails in the mid section should be parallel. Ie. no radius in the plan view.
A bit like this?
Yup, exactly Magilla. Same as Nozza drew. No need to make it too wide, plus, parallel rails are faster. (IMO).
Select to expand quoteSUPerD said..
Yup, exactly Magilla. Same as Nozza drew. No need to make it too wide, plus, parallel rails are faster. (IMO).
When you're my size, you need to make it that wide... Trust me!
I've a bit less rocker though. This board is 16'8" (because that's all that can fit in my garage)
Nice! I do think that you need more volume in the tail though. That would allow you to step back more... But add it through thickness, not width, keep the tail pinny. Volume is your friend in my opinion. Pretty sure ironphil would agree. If you want to add volume anywhere else, add it at the rails.. But keep them as soft as possible through the front half of the board. If you've had an opportunity to paddle a JL M-14, you'll know where I'm going with this... Note: I'm pretty sure that given you're in Melbourne theres a fair number of brains to pick up close and personal.. please don't put too much stock in my opinion alone..
The board is designed for a (very) heavyweight. The tail is wider for stability (keeps the rails more parallel), but thinner, yet has more volume than both an F16 and a 17'6 V3 in the back 3' of the board. (Although it doesn't look like it)
More NSP/DC like than SIC in the back end, but also designed to require less dancing up and down the board.
If it was designed for the masses, it would have less volume through the middle (tail maybe a wee bit narrower) and be 2" narrower overall.
Front rails very rounded, sharpening to a hard edge 6' from the back of the board.
Well then, goes to show that first impressions aren't necessarily correct. It also reminds me (in profile) of my old Naish Glide V2, with, of course, less nose rocker. One has to stick to the centre of it to maximise glides and minimize weighting the tail and wallowing followed by broaching.. Very nice. I'll just step back now and let you carry on Magilla....
Ditto that!
Good job Charlie - it would go well on Port Phillip Bay here with our short, steep chop.
Bring it over and we'll take it for a spin!
Select to expand quoteHelmy said..
Ditto that!
Good job Charlie - it would go well on Port Phillip Bay here with our short, steep chop.
Bring it over and we'll take it for a spin!
soon as i can save up for a ticket i will be over just got a wedding in july to get out the way with first. How constant are the winds on the bay, are you pretty much garnered something every day? I will have to look in to if i can get a 14 on quantas or i will have to build a two part one
Very nice, elegant rocker, beautiful profile.
I would go for a gloss finish like Jimmy Lewis or SIC though, for that final touch of class.
If you make it over here, I'm sure we can provide something suitable for you to paddle.
Or send Maggilla your shape3d file, and get him working to have something ready for you when you arrive.
Winds on the bay are fairly constant, just from the wrong direction a lot of the time.
But you can paddle somewhere most days.
