I was talking to my local SUP shop owner today who has a deep understanding of boards. Reasons for the ideas etc etc. Keen to find out what others also think. There's been much talk about the front of boards and how they work in DW conditions and from experience and preference I know I like a more fuller nose board than a pointy nose but what about the tails I'm in two minds about what's better?
Wide Square or narrow more pin tail what do you like??
I've always thought a pin tail like falcon/ace is the way for down winding much like the prone unlimiteds have been for years. They seem to work.
The square tail obviously works too in a diferent way.
Anyone have any opinions on either and why do you think that way?
IMO.. The narrow Ace/Falcon tail is needed because of the nose shape.. Because of what I call the boof nose tends to go boof and raise when you hit the chop or wave in front.. and when the nose raises the tail needs to lower into the water in a type of rocking see-saw motion.. A narrow tail can move up and down where a wide square tail can't without a lot of resistance causing drag.. So these boards work best when the paddler stays in the center of the board.. The boards with a nose that can pierce through the chop or wave in front don't require a narrow tall and a big square tail works fine alowing the paddler to move back when needed.. Boards like this are the Allstar's and Jav's.. If you notice in my DW vids my boards nose will often cut through the water just below the surface without slowing or making a slash.. A board with a boof nose and a square tail will still work so all this is not a golden rule.. 
One of the benefits of a square tail is that it's like having longer board but with a short piece of the tail chopped off reducing the total length.. and they can also allow a heavy paddler get back on the tail without sinking it too much.. All these different tail shapes work in conjunction with the rest of the boards out line, rails and rocker.
That's very much along the lines of my thinking DJ. Really good insight appeciate it. Though then many DC boards are boof nose and wide tails. And then there's the falcon 12"6 boof nose and wide tail and I've seen people dw these things fantasicly.. Then the new all star dw is more boof nose but wide tail still. It sort of contradicts the thinking of boof nose narrow tail to sink.
I would of liked to see the DW all star with a narrower tail
think narrow on a wider nose 14 is the go. most wider tail dc's you would find would be 12'6. a pintail bay runner is in the works for a 'punter'
I think the pintail just gives that bit more control and maybe generally more speed.
what dj says too.
I had my first tomys done as a sq and pintail. I went with the pintail board for a year- a record for me. however my orange top tomy is sq tail
you could imagine a starby coast runner a pintail no worries.
btw andy. ive seen a carbon open ocean forsale in the breeze. a sister to the coast runner. more rocker . would be the ticket for that west run day we did.
very good price too
I like the way you think lace.
For a "punter" hey aren't we all punters haha. Now a true pin tail on the likes of that would be something!!
I like this DC and think is that the best of both worlds an open tail ace letting you get right back with the foot.
I see that board for sale and hope someone in Brisbane picks it up as with that little bit more
Rocker it would be the best dw board on the second hand market for that price. Perfect for someone wanting something easy and stable to paddle
sorry not right way round but you get the idea IMO i love the top one the best you can turn the board and the relese is great too bit tippyer but you get use to it thats wats going on my Doctor Chaser for sure
Select to expand quotetightlines said...
Interesting thread, I was just discussing this very topic today. 
What are ur thoughts ?
Stimo. you are spoiled for choices.
I don't profess to know anywhere near as much as the mad scientists who are out there shaping the boards of tomorrow, but it does make me smile when I see someone steal a nose from a board they like and try to Frankenstein that together with the tail of another board they like, without any consideration for how the original designer integrated an entire design, just as DJ says above. These bastardised copy boards always seem to end up sluggish or tippy as hell.
Part of it is simple volume distribution. if you have a lot of volume in the front (Ace/Falcon), you need to offset that with less in the back. With the likes of the SIC boards, the volume is concentrated in the middle 50% of the boards with volume rapidly tapering out in the first & last quarter of the boards. In my view, this is a big reason why these boards are so quick. The paddler doesn't need to do too much 'dancing' up and down the board and the board pitches much less than say a Falcon or Ace.
To your point about volume distribution Magillamelb, in the following vid Bryan Symanski discusses that at the 4:30 mark, in reference to the LK 12'6 and its wide tail. The board is obviously more focused on BOP style paddling, but relevant to the discussion nonetheless.
Do you people think Narrow or wide tails work better than each other in diferent DW conditions?
PT Woody,That is imo something big brands like Starboard are doing as well, and there is imo no shame in checking what you like best from a several boards and try to combine them as a good starting point.For example: The 2015 Race (got one) is very much a Sprint nose and Allstar back/mid section (owned both of them!) with the added concave in the tail.The pictures I have seen from the 2016 Allstar...haven,t seen in the flesh yet, look very much like an Coastrunner/Ace front and the Race back-end.On both boards they added something to the shape make it work better, but the basic idea looks very much to me as a fankenstein child.
Having very little experience with downwinding, (did only 4 of them ) but a lot with windsurf shapes I would think the ideal shape is tuned on the expected riding speeds.With that I mean that a Maliko run with fast wide spaced pacific rather big swell, often pretty can benefit from a higher rockered nose to prevent nose diving and rather fast mid rocker +pinnier tail to control the faster speeds without starting to bounce.While a place where you have a short period hiphigh slower swell might benefit from a boof nose that can bounce over the wave in front of you and a wider tail to prevent sinking the tail too much on the slower speeds.
Just my 2 cents as an very interested observer without much experience
Select to expand quoteJeroensurf said...
PT Woody,That is imo something big brands like Starboard are doing as well, and there is imo no shame in checking what you like best from a several boards and try to combine them as a good starting point.For example: The 2015 Race (got one) is very much a Sprint nose and Allstar back/mid section (owned both of them!) with the added concave in the tail.The pictures I have seen from the 2016 Allstar...haven,t seen in the flesh yet, look very much like an Coastrunner/Ace front and the Race back-end.On both boards they added something to the shape make it work better, but the basic idea looks very much to me as a fankenstein child.
Having very little experience with downwinding, (did only 4 of them ) but a lot with windsurf shapes I would think the ideal shape is tuned on the expected riding speeds.With that I mean that a Maliko run with fast wide spaced pacific rather big swell, often pretty can benefit from a higher rockered nose to prevent nose diving and rather fast mid rocker +pinnier tail to control the faster speeds without starting to bounce.While a place where you have a short period hiphigh slower swell might benefit from a boof nose that can bounce over the wave in front of you and a wider tail to prevent sinking the tail too much on the slower speeds.
Just my 2 cents as an very interested observer without much experience
Some good point there for a non dw paddler.
However pintail preferably in the short high stuff for control. If you have a unsinkable tail in short steep stuff its going to send you flying into the next back side bump or go nowhere.
I think a pin tail on the right board is more all round ie will go well just about in everything
Select to expand quoteAndyR said..
Do you people think Narrow or wide tails work better than each other in diferent DW conditions?
I like the big square tail myself for the slightly added stability.. and the slightly better tracking of the shorter 12'6" and 14' size boards.. and also the added float that they give when standing way back on the tail of the board.. But if I was lighter person or on a bigger board I'd like the SIC (and Bill Foote) type boards the rounded pin that puts more curve in the rail towards the tail alowing for better surfing type turns when surfing a runner.. and when going fast down the big bumpy stuff having a little more length board behind your rear foot should help stop the bounce of the nose going up and down.. and the pointier tail can more up and down without as much drag that a big wide tail would have.. ... IMO...
Select to expand quotePTWoody said..
I don't profess to know anywhere near as much as the mad scientists who are out there shaping the boards of tomorrow, but it does make me smile when I see someone steal a nose from a board they like and try to Frankenstein that together with the tail of another board they like, without any consideration for how the original designer integrated an entire design, just as DJ says above. These bastardised copy boards always seem to end up sluggish or tippy as hell.
everybody copys everybody just dont leave your board on the currunbin river edge too long or it could be a nashstarboardfanaticdcdeeplanuikiawalkonwatermanoverboard who cares just have fun progresion is everywhere peole love there own brands and thats cool sorry jako and angie missed your board out and that looks pretty cool too add it please tryed to find but too many beers at this time of night rave
