Select to expand quotecolas said..
As a side note... "Short fat boards cannot do that" - yes, they actually can (on clean faces).
Totally disagree with that in powerful waves. The ones shown above are nice and clean softish waves that he is still struggling in.
I was thinking more like this.
I reckon you have to consider a few other things too.
As I have said before, fins playa a huge role in a boards performance, and IMO cdrive fins are in a league of their own for upping the performance of traditional boards. Highly recommend you try them out and see what they do to your manoeuvrability, drive and control.
you also want to think about the kind of turns you want to do. If you're into dishpanning then you will want a different board to some one who is trying to do proper full rail carves. The waves you ride, the speed they generate and the speed you are able to generate through good positioning will play a very significant role in how you're able to turn, too. Plus the part of the wave where you Are trying to do a turn.I'm see lots of people (including me) try what we might call aspirational turns in the wrong part of the wave. Sometimes to muck around but sometimes because we just get it wrong.
Your dims are pretty much mine, though I'm 6'4" and 85-88kgs depending on the paddock I'm in. IMO you should be able to handle a board around the 100-110 litre mark no probs as long as you invest in getting used to it.
you also mentioned stance. I see lots of people surfing with a wide stance, and this seems to be good for big turns. However, I rarely see wide stance surfing which is smooth and graceful to watch, which seems to be a product of a narrower stance. You can always take that half step back to plant it on the tail pad.
One thing I haven't heard much about is distribution of foam through the board. Volume is key, but they way it is distributed is also pretty important. We need volume for flotation, but I'd love to see someone moving away from creating boards that look good and focussing on boards that work better By experimenting with foam. For example, the smooth transition of curve is important on the bottom of the board and the rails, and through the rail profile, but in the deck it is inconsequential. Could be a glassers nightmare but vac bagging should be able to handle it.
good luck
Select to expand quoteTang said..
I reckon you have to consider a few other things too.
As I have said before, fins playa a huge role in a boards performance, and IMO cdrive fins are in a league of their own for upping the performance of traditional boards. Highly recommend you try them out and see what they do to your manoeuvrability, drive and control.
you also want to think about the kind of turns you want to do. If you're into dishpanning then you will want a different board to some one who is trying to do proper full rail carves. The waves you ride, the speed they generate and the speed you are able to generate through good positioning will play a very significant role in how you're able to turn, too. Plus the part of the wave where you Are trying to do a turn.I'm see lots of people (including me) try what we might call aspirational turns in the wrong part of the wave. Sometimes to muck around but sometimes because we just get it wrong.
Your dims are pretty much mine, though I'm 6'4" and 85-88kgs depending on the paddock I'm in. IMO you should be able to handle a board around the 100-110 litre mark no probs as long as you invest in getting used to it.
you also mentioned stance. I see lots of people surfing with a wide stance, and this seems to be good for big turns. However, I rarely see wide stance surfing which is smooth and graceful to watch, which seems to be a product of a narrower stance. You can always take that half step back to plant it on the tail pad.
One thing I haven't heard much about is distribution of foam through the board. Volume is key, but they way it is distributed is also pretty important. We need volume for flotation, but I'd love to see someone moving away from creating boards that look good and focussing on boards that work better By experimenting with foam. For example, the smooth transition of curve is important on the bottom of the board and the rails, and through the rail profile, but in the deck it is inconsequential. Could be a glassers nightmare but vac bagging should be able to handle it.
good luck
Hi Tang, you right to talk about distribution of foam. Because with rocker distribution it's the first shaping parameter to fix. Volume is create by those two is doing looseness or stiffness of the board. Out of mood of surfing volume distribution is doing to the board in the SUP case, volume distribution is the key to paddle stood up with confort.
From my experiments on shortSUP i've built myself, using these as labs I can confirm that center of distribution foam is the meanest before all. I did'nt talk about before during this topic but it is time to talk about after all interesting things said. 
For example watch on this diagram below: the center of volume distribution is just behind the maxwidth surrounded by outline curves flowing to the tail providing looseness. Also, this center volume distribution hold you standing up to paddle while nose is gliding during paddling torque action.
An other thing like "the drip " said is the bottom shape like belly shape. belly shape are very useful to induce maneuverability to the tail and fins from the nose or center of the board.
In red on this view, yellows are concave:
Select to expand quoteTang said..
I reckon you have to consider a few other things too.
As I have said before, fins playa a huge role in a boards performance, and IMO cdrive fins are in a league of their own for upping the performance of traditional boards. Highly recommend you try them out and see what they do to your manoeuvrability, drive and control.
you also want to think about the kind of turns you want to do. If you're into dishpanning then you will want a different board to some one who is trying to do proper full rail carves. The waves you ride, the speed they generate and the speed you are able to generate through good positioning will play a very significant role in how you're able to turn, too. Plus the part of the wave where you Are trying to do a turn.I'm see lots of people (including me) try what we might call aspirational turns in the wrong part of the wave. Sometimes to muck around but sometimes because we just get it wrong.
Your dims are pretty much mine, though I'm 6'4" and 85-88kgs depending on the paddock I'm in. IMO you should be able to handle a board around the 100-110 litre mark no probs as long as you invest in getting used to it.
you also mentioned stance. I see lots of people surfing with a wide stance, and this seems to be good for big turns. However, I rarely see wide stance surfing which is smooth and graceful to watch, which seems to be a product of a narrower stance. You can always take that half step back to plant it on the tail pad.
One thing I haven't heard much about is distribution of foam through the board. Volume is key, but they way it is distributed is also pretty important. We need volume for flotation, but I'd love to see someone moving away from creating boards that look good and focussing on boards that work better By experimenting with foam. For example, the smooth transition of curve is important on the bottom of the board and the rails, and through the rail profile, but in the deck it is inconsequential. Could be a glassers nightmare but vac bagging should be able to handle it.
good luck
Thanks very much Tang.
Boy, 100-110 litres - now you are making me feel bad On the ProWave 104 litres I felt like a kid on a zippy board. But as you say, you just need time (and maybe a miracle).
Regarding the turns, I think there are three options: dish-panning, rail carve, and whatever you call humping down on the tail and pivoting. I have not really tried dish-panning, but I would like the option of rail turns instead of tail turns.
I think I should go and get a used beater 110 litre board just to have to try out and test in the right conditions. I am not sure I am ready to throw another $2k at it.
Those C Drive fins look interesting. Do they work on Minions?
Select to expand quoteKami said..Tang said..
I reckon you have to consider a few other things too.
One thing I haven't heard much about is distribution of foam through the board. Volume is key, but they way it is distributed is also pretty important. We need volume for flotation, but I'd love to see someone moving away from creating boards that look good and focussing on boards that work better By experimenting with foam. For example, the smooth transition of curve is important on the bottom of the board and the rails, and through the rail profile, but in the deck it is inconsequential. Could be a glassers nightmare but vac bagging should be able to handle it.
good luck
Hi Tang, you right to talk about distribution of foam. Because with rocker distribution it's the first shaping parameter to fix. Volume is create by those two is doing looseness or stiffness of the board. Out of mood of surfing volume distribution is doing to the board in the SUP case, volume distribution is the key to paddle stood up with confort.
From my experiments on shortSUP i've built myself, using these as labs I can confirm that center of distribution foam is the meanest before all. I did'nt talk about before during this topic but it is time to talk about after all interesting things said.
For example watch on this diagram below: the center of volume distribution is just behind the maxwidth surrounded by outline curves flowing to the tail providing looseness. Also, this center volume distribution hold you standing up to paddle while nose is gliding during paddling torque action.
An other thing like "the drip " said is the bottom shape like belly shape. belly shape are very useful to induce maneuverability to the tail and fins from the nose or center of the board.
In red on this view, yellows are concave:
We should call you Professor SUP It must be interesting shaping the boards and then seeing how they go.
But there are so many variables, especially when you add fin design and configuration PLUS the surf conditions and the rider's ability during testing.
My brain hurts.
And then you get that Kai guy who gets on a flat board without fins and he rips...
Nah you'll be right. Get yourself a 2013 starby 8'5x29 at 106L with cdrives and away you go.
I found that cdrives didn't work on the minion anothing like they did on my other boards. I notch this up to the channel in the minion tail, and the resulting water movement/flow/turbulence as the fins hummed in it but not the other boards. It got less as you replaced the rear fins with standard template fins as a quad but it still didn't feel right.
kami, I look forward to a bottle of fine red with you one day talking about the finer points of sup design. I see in the paper today that the 1971 Grange red won worlds best red wine of the 70s, beating a few French legends in the process. Shame I don't have a bottle to share!
Select to expand quoteTang said..
Nah you'll be right. Get yourself a 2013 starby 8'5x29 at 106L with cdrives and away you go.
Thanks for the suggestion! I'll take a look in buy/sell.
Tang:
I wish i can speak about shaping as he does talk about wine growing . At 1300ausD the bottle we will have plenty beers looking at the surf, must be fine 
www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/drinks/penfolds-grange-1971-best-wine-in-world-award-will-turn-world-on-to-australias-finest-wines/news-story/7decbc5e80e294ab1ad194f8a897816d
CantSupenough:
Back to looseness, I've to try C-drive because fin's drive come to the fin base instead from the tip. Closer to your back foot than normal fins so more power on rails and board tail curves. Those C-drive are acting as channels bottom ridges laying just under your pressure back foot.
About surf conditions, I have to say my home beach break which is to me my testing ground works only when it's glass under 3'. This is why my board are so small.Also for winter conditions I've 7'11" 28" channels bottom board usually 6' 8' but still very clean conditions.
Have to think that others mates are surfing many other kinds of conditions. I'm not a professor just a witness of what i feel and study for many years now
Select to expand quotehilly said..
I was thinking more like this.
[1] this is not a wave... more an oceanic ledge :-)
[2] "driving a solid bottom turn at mach speed" is not what is done at this monster... riders just angle gently their initial turn to keep all possible speed, find the trim line and aim for the exit
cSe - my stats aren't too dissimilar to yours (just a little shorter) & like you, I've been through a similar 'board hunting' exercise trying to fine-tune my quiver. I currently own the 8'5 Speeed which is awesome when it's calm (by far the most fun I've had on a SUP) but I do struggle when the wind/chop are up although I'm confident that with practice, this will become less of an issue.
Like Kuz/STC & many other Seabreezers, I'm a big believer in the magic of the Speeed shape (as you know, it's like 2 boards in 1) so I've also ordered the 8'10 which I plan to use when my 8'5 poses too much of a challenge + my other half can use this board on the rare occassion she joins me for a paddle.
I also opted for the 8'11 x 30" x 120l Acid (I ordered this shortly before the shape was fine-tuned) however I've yet to put this board through it's paces. I bought this board as a replacement for my 9'2 JP Surf Pro with the objective for it to offer me a different ride vs my 2 x Speeeds. Kuz has spent a lot of time on his Acid so he's well placed to answer questions on this board but from our discussions, he firmly believes the Acid is a versatile board & shouldn't be stereotyped as a high performance 'only' board.
The only downside I can foresee with my quiver is that I still don't have a super stable board so either I have to pick the days I go out or I need to lift my game....probably a combination of both.
I personally reckon that for the average punter, the Speeed is best suited for more cruisy turns however guys like JohnnyMaya/JC/STC have all demonstrated that the board can turn on a dime if & when the need arises. Looking at JC surfing the Speed/Acid & Flow, it's hard to draw a comparison for us mere mortals however from where I'm sitting, it looks like it's easier for him to get verticle pivot turns with both the Acid & Flow vs the Speeed. Clearly the shape of these boards help facilitate this.
As Seajuice mentions, the Soul will no doubt offer the best all-round charactersitics for for the majority of us. I guess choosing the correct size & shape comes down to personal preference i.e. I personally don't like boards much over 9' x 31" & I reckon 120l is about the right volume for me (still enough to pose a challenge) so in a perfect world, I would love to compare the 8'6 Soul vs the 8'10 Flow vs the 8'10 Acid. Possibly the 8'11 Soul would be a great option for a really stable all-round board?
Bottom line - I've had exactly the same questions as you & I will certainly post a comprehensive review on all 3 of my Sunova boards (hopefully within the next few months) however in the interim, it would be great to hear from someone that has compared the Speeed vs the Acid vs the Flow vs the Soul....or part of 
Select to expand quoteSUPing said..
cSe - my stats aren't too dissimilar to yours (just a little shorter) & like you, I've been through a similar 'board hunting' exercise trying to fine-tune my quiver. I currently own the 8'5 Speeed which is awesome when it's calm (by far the most fun I've had on a SUP) but I do struggle when the wind/chop are up although I'm confident that with practice, this will become less of an issue.
Like Kuz/STC & many other Seabreezers, I'm a big believer in the magic of the Speeed shape (as you know, it's like 2 boards in 1) so I've also ordered the 8'10 which I plan to use when my 8'5 poses too much of a challenge + my other half can use this board on the rare occassion she joins me for a paddle.
I also opted for the 8'11 x 30" x 120l Acid (I ordered this shortly before the shape was fine-tuned) however I've yet to put this board through it's paces. I bought this board as a replacement for my 9'2 JP Surf Pro with the objective for it to offer me a different ride vs my 2 x Speeeds. Kuz has spent a lot of time on his Acid so he's well placed to answer questions on this board but from our discussions, he firmly believes the Acid is a versatile board & shouldn't be stereotyped as a high performance' only' board.
The only downside I can foresee with my quiver is that I still don't have a super stable board so either I have to pick the days I go out or I need to lift my game....probably a combination of both.
I personally reckon that for the average punter, the Speeed is best suited for more cruisy turns however guys like JohnnyMaya/JC/STC/Kuz have all demonstrated that the board can turn on a dime if & when the need arises. Looking at JC surfing the Speed/Acid & Flow, it's hard to draw a comparison for us mere mortals however from where I'm sitting, it looks like it's easier for him to get verticle pivot turns with both the Acid & Flow vs the Speeed. Clearly the shape of these boards help facilitate this.
As Seajuice mentions, the Soul will no doubt offer the best all-round charactersitics for for the majority of us. I guess choosing the correct size & shape comes down to personal preference i.e. I personally don't like boards much over 9' x 31" & I reckon 120-125l is about the right volume for me (still enough to pose a challenge) so in a perfect world, I would love to compare the 8'6 Soul vs the 8'10 Flow vs the 8'10 Acid. Possibly the 8'11 Soul would be a great option for a really stable all-round board?
Bottom line - I've had exactly the same questions as you & I will certainly post a comprehensive review on all 3 of my Sunova boards (hopefully within the next couple of months) however in the interim, it would be great to hear from someone that has compared the Speeed vs the Acid vs the Flow vs the Soul....or at least part of. Cheers
Select to expand quoteSUPing said..
cSe - my stats aren't too dissimilar to yours (just a little shorter) & like you, I've been through a similar 'board hunting' exercise trying to fine-tune my quiver. I currently own the 8'5 Speeed which is awesome when it's calm (by far the most fun I've had on a SUP) but I do struggle when the wind/chop are up although I'm confident that with practice, this will become less of an issue.
I have been through that process with my 7'10" Minion. I am now much better on it when there is a bit of chop and wind and thus I get to enjoy its maneuverability more often. I am not sure whether it is the length, the shape of the rails, or the fact that the back of the board is closer (and thus easier to put your foot over the fins) but I can turn it much more easily than the speeed.Select to expand quoteSUPing said..
Like Kuz/STC & many other Seabreezers, I'm a big believer in the magic of the Speeed shape (as you know, it's like 2 boards in 1) so I've also ordered the 8'10 which I plan to use when my 8'5 poses too much of a challenge + my other half can use this board on the rare occasion she joins me for a paddle.
I would like to hear your comparison of the 8'5" versus 8'10". It will be interesting to see how much more stable the 8'10" is.Select to expand quoteSUPing said..
I also opted for the 8'11 x 30" x 120l Acid (I ordered this shortly before the shape was fine-tuned) however I've yet to put this board through it's paces. I bought this board as a replacement for my 9'2 JP Surf Pro with the objective for it to offer me a different ride vs my 2 x Speeeds. Kuz has spent a lot of time on his Acid so he's well placed to answer questions on this board but from our discussions, he firmly believes the Acid is a versatile board & shouldn't be stereotyped as a high performance 'only' board.
Looking at JC surfing the Speed/Acid & Flow, it's hard to draw a comparison for us mere mortals however from where I'm sitting, it looks like it's easier for him to get verticle pivot turns with both the Acid & Flow vs the Speeed. Clearly the shape of these boards help facilitate this.
As Seajuice mentions, the Soul will no doubt offer the best all-round charactersitics for for the majority of us. I guess choosing the correct size & shape comes down to personal preference i.e. I personally don't like boards much over 9' x 31" & I reckon 120l is about the right volume for me (still enough to pose a challenge) so in a perfect world, I would love to compare the 8'6 Soul vs the 8'10 Flow vs the 8'10 Acid. Possibly the 8'11 Soul would be a great option for a really stable all-round board?
Bottom line - I've had exactly the same questions as you & I will certainly post a comprehensive review on all 3 of my Sunova boards (hopefully within the next few months) however in the interim, it would be great to hear from someone that has compared the Speeed vs the Acid vs the Flow vs the Soul....or part of
I am with you - I would love to see a good comparison of the Speeed/Acid/Flow/Soul. And I would like someone to explain the difference between those last three.
Rode a narrow longboard style sup today in bumpy gutless waves what a pleasure. 10 4 by 28.5 really stable heaps of glide into waves and turned well when up to speed. I miss the early entry into waves that longer narrow boards give you.
Nice shot. I use a 10-6 x 28 the same way. 28-29" seems to be a width that works well in bigger waves.
