Just wondering what is more is more important for stability. I know that it is a combination but be interested in your thoughts.
Select to expand quoteBoogs said..
Just wondering what is more is more important for stability. I know that it is a combination but be interested in your thoughts.
Width. What is more stable half a dozen bricks side by side or half a dozen bricks stacked on top of each other. or think about a cork sitting on top of the water bobbing around.
it does however depend on where it is distributed throughout the board but I would say generally width is what gives you stability.
Great topic, thx Boogs, can be this topic settle down this so important SUP parameter .
IMO it's more how is distributed troughout the board then in second it would be how width it is.
So, my demo will be this board, i want to know if it's makable to stand on this at 60 yrs on clean surfing conditions.
Width, fullness in nose and tail. Full nose and tail is why you can cut almost a foot off length for a minion. Conventional board with fuller tail and/or nose adds stability for same width at middle. Adding thickness makes rails boxier.
My 2 cents.
Width is negotiable, volume is not.
-Lose width and it becomes tippy. But tracks straighter and you can still paddle for miles.
-Lose volume and it still becomes tippy - and you lose tracking and can't paddle as far.
Low width is a fun challenge. Low volume is only for competitors and/or people who don't need to paddle around, don't need to worry about missing waves, etc.
I have a couple of narrow boards with a good amount of volume. They're wonderful. Thick, yes, but they perform wonderfully on the waves. I also have a couple of narrow boards with low volume. They are even better on the waves, but just not as fun to paddle around, they don't have the range and tracking of the normal volume boards.
So while I do have both styles, if I could only have one it'd be the thick rails and narrow boards.
Boogs, you must be more specific.
Things are quite different, basically for 4 kind of boards:
- race boards
- "traditional" SUPs (~ 10~, 170l volume, ...)
- "barely floating" (volume = your weight + 20-30 liters)
- "sinkers" (po boards), volume = less than your weight + board weight
For the "barely floating" ones, width give you time to react, volume widens the "stable spot", but too much and it will become unstable as too corky. As JeanG says, narrow boards are more efficient, but provide a less powerful platform to push hard manoeuvers, to tend to favor a more fluid style. However they can be absolute hell if you are not in a good day, or the chop and backwash becomes too much. I have both, but if I had to keep only one, would keep a wide one. Younger, I may have kept a narrow one.
For the rail volume, it depends on the wave speed. Too thin a rail for the wave, and the rail will bog down, braking you in turns. Too much volume and you risk spin out.
Whatever the board is made for surfing or paddling, Boogs did ask our thought about stability talking width vs thickness.
My example shows up here is an extreme case. And it is going as Blossom Lotus thoughts.
To follow on the Boogs topic i might say more than the width and thickness is the center of those 2 parameters . On the designs this is rond point in the middle of boards side and outline.
So in the design below, i draw same outline but i slide the center of buoyancy in the nose. This make the board looking as a beluga, so i give it its name file.
I want to mean that this board at same volume and outline will be a lot more stable paddling than my first drawing.
JeanG, I remember that you and StrandL on the Zone were kind of the first to go really narrow before everyone else. On those short board shapes which was even more impressive. I wonder if you wouldn't mind posting some pics of the different rails on your boards to give a reference to what you are describing. I also remember Colas touching upon the "narrower board, fatter rail" that many pros ride in another thread. Would love to see a side to side comparison of what you guys are talking about.
Reprobate, I don't have any photos of the rails on me right now, and am out of town, but can tell you that out of all of my short board shape standups there are two with extreme rail differences: One with the thinnest rails I've ever seen on a standup, the other with the thickest rails I've ever seen on a performance oriented standup. I can provide photos later, but just take my word for it for now if you will.
However... the boards have so many other differences that it's hard for me to isolate the influence of the rails. What I can say is that the board with the "fattest rails I've ever seen" performs fantastically. But it's quite different from the board with the "thinnest rails I've ever seen" - that board also performs fantastically, but in a different manner.
Oh I get it, JeanG, and thanks. I've found that I'm putting a little volume back in my rails now that I'm getting quite narrow (for me, that is). Would enjoy seeing pics from you, Colas, or Kami to see side by side differences on respective shapes that kind of display what you all have described. Thanks again.
Great synergy
i'm still drawing my next board which will push the envelop because i want a surfboard able to take off paddling already stood up. So i'm pushing the limit to be narrowest as possible so can't be blow away by the lip when get lock in or be able to carve down the line with rail and fins dig in the water.
So this is my last drawing for the best stability with narrower width and thinner rails as possible to goal the surfboard characteristic i love.
Want to try this idea before i can't prove it anymore by myself.
Note: the first diagram shows the most important parameter in what we are concern in this topic.
IMO to get stable as possible you have to get buoyancy as much as possible in the ends near OFOs.
Once this done, narrow width at 25.5 " allows me to carve this board as a surfboard with the help of the paddle
Last touch: watch the step deck to get my toe as close as possible of the optimum width while paddling focusing ( almost) on my width balance which is the secret of this grave concern
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Very, very nice, Kami! I'd love to spend some days with you in your shaping room. Thanks for keeping this topic centered. Good stuff for all of us! Keep it coming!
As an additional note, I find that your ability to keep the weight the front part of your feet (the "ball") is very important.
For me, when I am in top form, I am able to stay on my balls (of my feet! ), and thus can handle quite a narrow board.
But when I am tired, sometimes I "let go" and my weight get to rest briefly on the heels. When this happens, I know it is no use trying to keep using a narrow board, it will be hell. weight on heels + narrow board = water time!
So my advice is: have a quiver with both narrow & wide boards, and use the "weight on the heels" as an indicator that you should switch to the wide ones.
