Which manufacturers are really thinking about improving their product through blank technology, glassing materials and glassing techniques?
When I check Websites shape is talked about a lot but the engineering not as much. Some examples of some who at least seem to be trying to do something innovative or different in this area are;
* Outer Island - www.outerislandsurfboards.com/boards/longboards.html www.outerislandsurfboards.com/boards.html
Outer Island says - "We take pride in the strength and longevity of our boards, which outlast production built product by 4 times and more. Using slow cure resin mixes which are inherently stronger, we apply the fibreglass under tension, like a drum skin, We pull the weft fibres to a 20 degree angle toward the rails, in opposing directions on each side, creating a complex matrix of diagonal fibres. Coupled with wider laps, these techniques make for a far stronger board by utilising the materials to their maximum potential, with no increase in weight."
* Jim Banks - www.jimbanksurf.com/
Jim Banks says - "Hi Glass is a technique of increasing the ratio of fibreglass to resin so that the boards resistance to snapping is significantly increased without adding too much extra weight. In general a Hi Glass board has about double the snap resistance of a conventional glass job."
So at least these blokes are really thinking about the engineering.
Ive heard about new blank materials emerging too.
Go easy on me, but I applaud the use of CNC shaping machines to refine hand shaped designs over time. A human provides the initial magic, a machine will ensure symmetry, consistency and allow accurate study of cause and effect. Of course you will always need a wizard to finish the CNC machined blank and a guru on the final sanding to finish the magic properly.
I am in the market for my first longboard / mid length board. Getting older, chronic back problems and after a life of short boards, I've been loving cruising straight in the pocket on my SUP In waves nobody wants. Just want to cruise and bury some rail here and there.
There are are so many shapes out there these days. However I'm also very interested in what's new in construction materials and methods. Even the tried and true PU/PE construction must have room for improvement.
Well,OI,from my experience of owning 11,are not any stronger than other pu/pe constructions.As a matter of fact,2 I've owned have creased and another has by far the WORST deck dents I've ever seen in a board(I've owned 300+).
McCoys are built very strong and have the best longevity.
Enuenu with the scenario you paint I think it is important you get the board that fits your criteria in terms of surfing and get a board built with strong glassing- double six ounce deck and single six ounce bottom. There are other things that can be done such as rail laps, extra glass patches, using s instead of e glass etc etc that will contribute to a stronger board. I second the comment above re McCoys- great build quality. The nugget is a great board- do some research- that may be perfect for you on several levels- great paddle, surprisingly agile in the pocket and with your bad back they have the following characteristic that will help with getting to your feet. The wide, thick tail rises with the wave as you paddle in and the angle created (tail up, nose down) makes popping up easier as gravity assists- you almost fall to your feet. Some surfers find this disconcerting but I like it. They have sufficient rocker to avoid pearling. Another option is the GSI superfish in epoxy in the longer sizes- there are reasons not to buy them- made in SE Asia being the main one- but they are fast, great paddlers, and tough as nails in epoxy. Garry Loveridge (the shaper who designed the superfish) from Wizstix will do you a custom. I am fortunate enough to have both versions and Garry's handshapes are far more refined (rails sharper, less 'tanky' nicely foiled nose and tail) and nicely finished.
To the op you are tripping mate if what you think you posted is cutting edge. People have been doing those methods for years... On the McCoy's stop kidding yourself they are the most durable boards blah blah blah. I can show you three from one bloke whose decks look like a HP shortboard(owner is 62)
Yes I have seen heaps look untouched and in great condition much like my Clearwaters, but I'm not going to.come out and say the claims you blokes have.
Op.people are now using bio epoxy resins flax,coco matt,recycled blanks and guess what? All the people that are doing it are the little blokes,backyard boys,small shops not one big boy is as that steals money from their bottom line.(another reason why we should support the little bloke)
My Clearwaters are the most durable boards ever made
stupid claim
Cheers for all the input.
Hi chrispy, I've made no claims about what is cutting edge. I simply noted these were a couple of brands that mentioned a bit extra about construction. Is what they say valid? I don't know, hence the forum post to open a discussion and gather new knowledge.
i have owned a 6'4" McCoy Nugget for around 15 years. It is still in great shape, I love the board! I'm on the hunt for something to really cruise on, whether I end up with a 9' longboard or some sort of mid length egg, I'm still undecided. Having fun checking out what's out there though.
The intention of the post was to find out if anyone had opinions on construction methods and materials. McCoy and Clearwater do seem to have a good rep for quality manufacturing. Interesting to hear the poor report on the Outer Islands. I'll take it on board. As with all online searches, even the most respected products get bagged from time to time. I read a post recently where a bloke bagged McTavish boards as low quality. I certainly wouldn't write Bob's boards off based on one post. If I read 20 complaints I might start to hear a warning bell.
I guess the bigger a manufacturer's name gets, the temptation to increase profit by cutting corners and riding on the reputation of the brand could be tempting. As production volume increases, quality can decrease unless you have enough expert people on the job and you keep paying close attention to details.
Thanks DaveBasher, I also own a GSI SE Asian pop out (Aloha Bean 6'9" in that Haydenshapes stringerless construction) which is the board I have ridden (as a quad) the last couple of years. Got it used for a good price and was curious as only ever owned locally made PU/PE boards. It's a great board and has held up great. I agree with you in that I've noticed that some of the SE Asian factory boards do not have the refinement in final sanding that a regular homegrown board has. Also good to support the local builders too of course. I'll follow up on your suggestions and check Wizstix.
Bought my son a FireWire Hashtag a while back. Again used at a bargain price. He's learning and hard on the board. Not a mark on it and the finish seems refined.
Cheers all :)
op i to like the cnc machine if the person behind the board knows whats up.
on a mid or a long,what do you want to do. catch more waves,cross step and nose ride,or just catch more waves on a bigger sized shorty?
Cheers again everyone, I'll follow the leads provided. Nice tips MickPC. The construction materials and methods is just a curiosity really, just wondering if anything new is up in the industry in construction area. Tried and true well glassed and sanded PU/PE still hard to beat.
as to what I want to do on the board, it's a good point chrispy. guess I want something I can get get in early on and get set, even in steeper beachies.nThen either chug straight and cut back here and there (longboard) or throw a few arcs closer to the picket (mid length).
Weakness in my back has been a pain on my smaller boards. Do I want to walk up and down the board or not? Yeah, that is fun. That's the difference between a longboard and a mid length I guess. I start out thinking I wanted a longboard, then I started to check some mid length designs and started salivating. There's so much out there now. Stuff it, I'll get a 9'6" log and a 7'6" egg quad :) It's going to be a long 3 months no being able to surf, but I'll be ready.
Select to expand quotechrispy said..
^^^^^^^^^ nice work. I would like a nice midlength egg 
What he said..a good mid length will still go vertical if your good enough you can throw a figure 8 cutty without to much hassle and you'll be able to get 5 over the nose and cross step...all rider dependant of course...persinally I would steer clear off anything with too much width at the 12 inch mark if you want to ride it in steeper waves
I'll second the POXY 7Ss, very strong.They have a thin timber veneer on the deck, they only dent slightly.
As for seeing MCoys with dents, yes the more recent ones are done with King foam,its cheapest on the market and not as good as the other sydneee or goldy foam.
The older ones are stronger but will still dent a bit.Around the time the model logos started going on was when he switched foams.
The big factors in durability is cure time(a month after glassing) and the deepness away from the crust that the foam is cut.
Oh yep, a mid length would be better in beachies for sure if the waves are sucky. Other factor there is if there is a nice channel to paddle out the back or not. Trying to duckdive something with a lot of volume is not fun otherwise. I'd be looking at something short with a wider front under the chest & a shortboard tail to hold in on sucky waves. As little rocker as possible, late kick in the nose. Like you say an egg shaped quad.
Suspected you already owned a couple of boards for better days...ie the 6'4 & 6'9...or perhaps for those days its a little larger, with no easy way out.
Flex bar - www.cisurfboards.com/flex-bar/ I only usually get one of those on Saturday Night
Select to expand quoteMickPC said..
^ .....so they renamed the stringer a "flexbar" now
Correct, and henceforth there will be new names for the followings items;
> Blank - now to be know as, "the soft white foamy inside thingy"
> Glassings - now to be know as, "the hard plasticy outside bits"
> Fins - now to be knows as, "the stick out the bottom thingys"
please memorise these new names, there will be a test.
Cheers again all. If McCoy is going to lesser blanks that's a bad move. Why a brand with a great rep would downgrade a material is beyond me. Just the sort of info I was after regarding contruction methods and materials.
The FlexBar is interesting. No mid lengths or Longboards though. I know snow ski and snowboard makers are very careful about flex. Having snowboarded a lot, flex patterns are key. I think the surfboard world recognises this but are just starting to really concentrate on it.
I found this this aboutVarial blanks www.varialsurf.com/ , another mob looking at improvements in materials in boards. Interesting stuff. Taking nothing away from generations of shapers, but it's good to see highly qualified engineers applying their knowledge to surfboard contruction and materials.
Try Thunderbolt tech if you are looking for a LB or Mid in new tech..http://thunderboltsurf.com/slide/who/
harleyinglebysurf.com/technology/
And also
CJ Nelson has some SouthCoast longboards boards through them,
Edit..
I think? may not be the same tech..
cjnelsondesigns.com/technology/
Select to expand quoteobct said..MickPC said..
^ .....so they renamed the stringer a "flexbar" now
Correct, and henceforth there will be new names for the followings items;
> Blank - now to be know as, "the soft white foamy inside thingy"
> Glassings - now to be know as, "the hard plasticy outside bits"
> Fins - now to be knows as, "the stick out the bottom thingys"
please memorise these new names, there will be a test.
Geez things could get messy if they claim to have patents on those too
Is perfect symmetry and finish really that important, because if it is, I better work a lot harder on my lumpy wax jobs 
...but yeah, interesting to read 
Just call Dick Van Straalen and custom order a 7'6" full carbon fibre and eps all rounder. Don't be a tight arse when he tells you the price. It's worth it. Then come back and thank me later.
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Select to expand quoteobct said..
Is perfect symmetry and finish really that important, because if it is, I better work a lot harder on my lumpy wax jobs
I guess if you wax the bottom and rails you'll need to 
Hey Cuttlefish, I now remembers reading about DVS Carbon machines a while back. I'll have another look.
Aviso is another alternate tech that caught my eye some time ago;
www.avisosurf.com/AboutAviso.html
There's using carbon cloth with resins in the usual manner then there's the full blown pressure cooked stuff used in aircraft and F1 cars. Aviso do use high temp cures of some sort I think. I always imagined a board made like the wing of a stealth fighter. Super accurate, super strong with engineered flex. Aviso look at deflection patterns, so they are a wake up to this (check the deflection image on this page) www.avisosurf.com/TechAdvantage.html
Being able to engineer flex at will would lead to some awesome boards.
Make them ultra light too, then put the weight back in with ideal placement.
Then you move to active dynamic computer controlled weight distribution with user programmable profiles. Small weights move around within the board based on a number of parameters. Bank into a bottom turn, the internal active weighting system shifts the board's centre of gravity slightly towards the buried rail. Maybe make the rocker profile dynamically variable too. Similar concept to active suspension.
NASA meets surfing. The million dollar board. Somebody stop me 
