Cammed or Camless

I know this has been discussed a bit before, but I would like to focus on it here.

For foiling, cammed or camless?

Yesterday two of us were out foiling on the Columbia River at Port Kelley. The wind was 12-20 mph with really sharp gusts. Average was about 14-15 mph. We were both on 6.4 sails and good foils with front wing areas of 800 and 940 cm2. Boards and body weights were similar.

Pete was using a Goya Nexus 6.4 no-cam. I was using an old Sailworks XT 6.4 with 3 cams (similar to today's Sailworks Flyers which have 2 cams).

For the day as a whole, I had more wing time and was faster since my 3-cam sail had more overall power. To get going, Pete had to pump a lot more. I could just sheet in and fly. All of this is already well known in the sport.

However, the sharp gusts killed my trim. I had to constantly correct the pitch. When a gusts hits my 3-cam sail, it simply propels it strongly forward, thus adding lift to the foil, endangering foilouts, of which I had a few. After a couple hours of this, I was totally spent.

On the other hand, Pete's camless sail "breathed" the sharp gusts, so his trim was not disturbed as much. He had an easier time of it in the gusts.

Last week in steady 15 mph winds with the same sails, I owned the place foiling my brains out, while Pete had to really work at it just to get going. So, I suppose our quiver needs to have both types of sails to respond to the conditions. Not sure I want to do that.

Anyway, I made a short youtube showing those steady conditions from last week. A youtube from yesterday would not have been very instructive since I was in the water so much.

I'd guess that your sails had a few important differences. Besides the cams, I'd guess that the difference in loose leech was also considerable, with the newer Goya having a lot more loose leech. If so, most or all of your observations can be explained by the loose leech difference: less power for the Goya, but better behavior in gusts. Not that different from windsurfing. It may seem that gusts are more likely to cause crashes when foiling, but if you look at someone who is just getting into the straps and harness, with similar TOW as many foilers, you may see lots of crashed, too.

Loose leech is not the whole story, either, of course. Trim issues like how high the draft is or how easy it is to depower a sail in gusts matter a lot. I mostly use camless sails, and find freestyle sails (high draft, intermediate loose leech) a lot easier to use than top end-oriented sails (similar or more loose leech, lower draft), especially in gusty conditions.

DWF, I am glad to hear you are liking the Flyer 6.0. The 6.0 is the go-to sail for medium conditions by all the Sailworks riders in the Gorge.

My Flyer 7.0 4-batten is also unruly in gusty winds. BP says this is why he added a 5th batten for 2019/2020.

Back to my original comments. I don't think the issue is sail twist and draft position. My XT 6.4, being a race sail, has plenty of tunable twist, and the draft is low and does not move much. All great for fin slalom. I think the issue is the deep pocket made by the cams. It is always solid, deep, and powerful, and responds to gusts with forward power. Gusty wind means variable forward power means variable board speed means variable wing lift means variable pitch. The result is pogo-sticking. Very exhausting.

My friend's no-cam sail (and my no-cam sails in Florida), has a pocket that is shallower and highly variable based on wind and sheet. This is why people keep talking about de-powering a no-cam sail for turns and such. I think such a sail will tend to hold more constant power in gusts. The power is lower to start with, which requires more pumping. However, a no-cam sail can be rigged to "breathe" the gusts better than a rigid cam sail. On gusty Friday my friend's no-cam was clearly "breathing," and he had consistent pitch, while my cam sail was clearly powering, and I had to constant correct the pitch.

So, I suppose the wind regime is the determining factor. So here's the thesis. In steady winds a cam sail will have constant power and be easier to ride. In gusty winds, a no-cam sail will absorb the gusts better for a more consistent power level. The 05.3 issue of Windsurfing Now also talks about this.

Personal preference, and one factor is jibing ease and consistency.
No cams, the most power to be had is sail touching inside boom arm when loaded. How and how much is up to you.
12-20, I can use 5.0 and freestyle,
7.0 and slalom, 4.0 and foil, or 4.8 and foil.

I use a Goya Mark 7.2 No cam, and imo you can trim a lot of power in these sails. I usually put 2-4 cm less downhaul on the sail than for normal windsurfing. Interestingly the sail still keeps its manageability in the gusts with this trimm. I guess it's because in foiling a "gust" leads to much less load in the sail than in normal windsurfing.
Alex

Btw. My next Foiling sail for lightwind will be a Goya Nexus 6.9

It was a revelation to me after a year of trying to foil in lighter but gusty wind to go from a no cam (Cheetah) to a 2 cam freerace. Much steadier power delivery meant less variability in trim.

I'm about 70 kg and 12-20mph (11-18kts) is easily doable with a 7.7. A 6.7 gets me up to the mid 20s in gusts. I'm wondering if the issue is less the sail and more about perfecting anticipating and depowering in gusts? If ones instincts are to stay in "windsurf" mode, grab a big bunch of back hand to control the gust and push hard with the legs, bad things will happen. Feather the rig, take the pressure off the feet ("frog mode" someone said), get the pressure on the mast base and head upwind (or deep downwind) until things are less hairy. Simply moving the back foot up may be enough, too.

For all those who use camless sails in higher winds, I do, too. The OP wants range and power at the low end but not getting jacked in the gusts.

I started foiling with older Ezzy Infinity's (cammed sails with a low profile) and did pretty well. I later went to Ezzy Cheetah's (I like the deeper profile and shape, but without the cams). I ended up trying out the Ezzy Hydras this year and have been happy.

It provides that balance between the cammed and non-cammed sails. Also, it's lightweight and provides a foil based shape (power down low). It does well when pumping (inflates to provide a cammed like feel), but flattens out when up in the air and going faster.

I think Sailworks got a better jump on the market in the gorge due to the 'look' over the original Hydra. Many didn't like the extended batten section at the clew. But after having tested out the new Hydra Sport (I now own one), it's my go to sail for foiling now.

I agree with Jesper..
In regards to the initial question it's cams all the way for me in sizes 8/9&10.

This brings another topic to light..

The issue now is we have 2 maybe 3 disciplines of foiling
the first being free ride - which consumes what looks like most of the forum topics..
and the second
being race/freerace.
Having all types of foiling lumped under the one heading may make it difficult to understand the sport if you are new and are looking for advice,
I think it's time for another category IMO.

Sail Repair WA said: "I can't see that a cam sail in the same size as a no cam, would get up and going earlier.
In a way I would be surprised, as I find a no cam sail easier to pump with and get the foil up and going.
Lots to do on the rigging of the sails, skills, boards, what foil is used etc."

What I do know from actual on-water observation is that my 3-cam 6.4 is getting going earlier, and with less pumping and more overall speed, than my friend's 6.4 no-cam. We have observed this now after 2 days of foiling. Yes, there is always the added issue of rigging, board, foil, sailor weight and skill, etc. His no-cam is easier to foil in the gnarly gusties, but my 3-cam is more powerful and faster.

A very popular foiling sail here is the Goya Fringe. 3 battens, no cams.

...she asked, "which shoes should I wear"....

Try both, select the one you like.

Cam's for me, they're so much more stable.