The season has kicked off with relatively light winds here, and watching my buddy leave me in his dust with his kite foil is making me think more about wind foiling.
I have an early 2000 Naish Titan 110L board that I wanted Some info on putting a foil on. Would this work? Board is narrow, I believe around 62-64 wide. It does have a pretty good size rocker which may help with nose dives. How much wind would I need to foil that board? I'm 175 pounds and the largest sail I have is a 6.8. I hardly use the board and don't care if it gets damaged. Or am I wasting my time with this board. Eventually when I pick it up, I will get a true foil board. I'd rather ding up an old board while I'm learning, than a new one.
62-64 wide would be very unstable. Also, it would take about a 4.0 - 4.5 as a maximum sailsize I think. The box is most probably too far behind the straps and add your weight of almost 90kgs.. I think it is a recipe for disaster.
id personally go for a dedicated windfoil board right from the start. The epoxy version JP135 is not expensive, and if im honest, weight really doesn't matter by far as much as it does in windsurfing. (My board is 9Kg's for 92L, my foil is an extra reinforced freestyle prototype weighing double the production and I can still get going in 10-12 kts with a 5.0 and similar weight as you..)
I am all for repurposing old boards for windfoiling. I know what it's like to not want to spend a ton of cash on a dedicated board, especially when just starting out. I weigh the same as you and did the same with a 122L 73cm x 240cm slalom board and it has been great over a broad wind range. That said I'd be hesitant to go with a board as narrow as yours. I've seen even narrower boards successfully windfoiled, but only in high wind situations where the rider is waterstarting and where it's easier to get upwind without a wide board for leverage with a 6.8 . What's the used market like for slalom boards in your area? It took me a year and a half to find one with dimensions I was happy with and it was worth the wait as well as the price. Perhaps you can find an attic deal on something a bit bigger where the seller has no idea it could be easily repurposed for foiling. Just a thought. One option is you could try your current board, and if it doesn't work out replace it with another cheap old board, learning may be a bit challenging on the Titan though.
Select to expand quoteWindbot said..
I am all for repurposing old boards for windfoiling. I know what it's like to not want to spend a ton of cash on a dedicated board, especially when just starting out. I weigh the same as you and did the same with a 122L 73cm x 240cm slalom board and it has been great over a broad wind range. That said I'd be hesitant to go with a board as narrow as yours. I've seen even narrower boards successfully windfoiled, but only in high wind situations where the rider is waterstarting and where it's easier to get upwind without a wide board for leverage with a 6.8 . What's the used market like for slalom boards in your area? It took me a year and a half to find one with dimensions I was happy with and it was worth the wait as well as the price. Perhaps you can find an attic deal on something a bit bigger where the seller has no idea it could be easily repurposed for foiling. Just a thought. One option is you could try your current board, and if it doesn't work out replace it with another cheap old board, learning may be a bit challenging on the Titan though.
Used foil boards are a rare find currently. Last season new boards are around $1300 on up, and I'm unsure if that includes the foil. I like the short foil boards the best. I have my eye on the slingshot foilboard. Should I be looking at the maximum liters to get me out in the lightest winds possible?
Select to expand quoteMagicRide said..Windbot said..
I am all for repurposing old boards for windfoiling. I know what it's like to not want to spend a ton of cash on a dedicated board, especially when just starting out. I weigh the same as you and did the same with a 122L 73cm x 240cm slalom board and it has been great over a broad wind range. That said I'd be hesitant to go with a board as narrow as yours. I've seen even narrower boards successfully windfoiled, but only in high wind situations where the rider is waterstarting and where it's easier to get upwind without a wide board for leverage with a 6.8 . What's the used market like for slalom boards in your area? It took me a year and a half to find one with dimensions I was happy with and it was worth the wait as well as the price. Perhaps you can find an attic deal on something a bit bigger where the seller has no idea it could be easily repurposed for foiling. Just a thought. One option is you could try your current board, and if it doesn't work out replace it with another cheap old board, learning may be a bit challenging on the Titan though.
Used foil boards are a rare find currently. Last season new boards are around $1300 on up, and I'm unsure if that includes the foil. I like the short foil boards the best. I have my eye on the slingshot foilboard. Should I be looking at the maximum liters to get me out in the lightest winds possible?
Used foilboards are not even a thing yet where I live, it's all about repurposing boards, I paid $400 for mine. The cheapest dedicated used foilboards I've seen in the US, board only were about $900USD. More liters will make life easier, with my 122L at 175lbs, I can rig a 6.5 no problem and I never wish I was on anything with more volume. Riding around on a 160+L board holds little appeal to me, even given that I like low winds.
Check out the Neil Pryde Glide - I'm 80kg and using on a 2007 Tabou 3S 97L (62cm wide) - easy + fun.
Was out yesterday in average 13-15kts with a 5.8m. Fairly easy to uphaul as foil gives a bit of extra stability but generally I waterstart as the lowish volume of board arguably helps with getting the board under you in lightwind. Haven't tried yet but think I should be up + flying in 11-13kts with a 6.3m - maybe less as my technique improves. The Glide Wind comes with the small front wing + a choice of heads (powerbox or tuttle) with a load spreading plate. Larger wings can be added and NP website seems to suggest it is compatible with the faster Flight wings but the Small seems best place to start. Cheap option to start foiling with and lots of good reviews out there - see also the thread on this forum:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/neilpryde-2019-glide-wind?page=1#22https://www.neilpryde.com/products/glide-wind
I'm hesitant to buy a foil conversion board because I'm not sure I will feel balanced on it. Pure foil boards are made and balanced for foils. Buying a foil for my titan is an option, to see if it works, but now I'm not sure. But to buy a conversion board and foil seems financially risky without knowing it works well. I think I might have to look for a demo foil board that has been used for a season in a rental fleet that's heavily discounted at the end of the season.
Also, I'm only looking to foil in super light winds. Once the wind picks up enough for me to take my 115L Naish Starship out, I will be out on that. So I'm thinking 8-13 knots of wind for me to foil. So I'm thinking a super floaty foil board 150L or so should do me?
Big boards don't necessarily fly earlier than smaller ones. Especially with a maximum sailsize of 6.8 I wouldn't go for a formula like board. Simply said, a board ideally suited for 6.8 (JP135 for ex.) will fly earlier than a board meant to be used for bigger sails. I think 6.8 in 8kts is a stretch for an untrained foiler, 11 kts or so should be doable. In the future your 6.8 should be big enough for 8 knots, given you have a powerful foil and the right size board.
ofcourse a formula with a 9.0 will fly earlier than a 6.8 on an 85 wide, but with the same relatively small sail that is not the case due to the force it takes for the board to release from the water.
The size of the board shouldn't determine the size of the sail. I've seen people putting foils on older, smaller boards. It will be a bit more unstable initially until you get the hang of it. You will need to get to 'speed' for the proper lift. Smaller boards will be harder to get onto a plane in lighter winds before the board lift. If you can uphaul the sail on that board, you should be okay to give it a shot.
There are lots of used formula boards out there. Big (160 liter), floaty, stable, lightweight, deep tuttle finboxes, short, lots of nose rocker, and cheap. All over the world in the past three years, beginning foilers have put their foils on formula boards and done well. Many of them are now foil racing--on those same formula boards.
Since formula boards had to run up to big powerful 70cm fins, the deep tuttle finboxes are quite beefy in most cases.
Select to expand quotesegler said..
There are lots of used formula boards out there. Big (160 liter), floaty, stable, lightweight, deep tuttle finboxes, short, lots of nose rocker, and cheap. All over the world in the past three years, beginning foilers have put their foils on formula boards and done well. Many of them are now foil racing--on those same formula boards.
Since formula boards had to run up to big powerful 70cm fins, the deep tuttle finboxes are quite beefy in most cases.
Good advice!
Select to expand quoteIndecentExposur said..
The size of the board shouldn't determine the size of the sail. I've seen people putting foils on older, smaller boards. It will be a bit more unstable initially until you get the hang of it. You will need to get to 'speed' for the proper lift. Smaller boards will be harder to get onto a plane in lighter winds before the board lift. If you can uphaul the sail on that board, you should be okay to give it a shot.
I can uphaul the 110L. Will a foil add too much weight to the 110L and sink it more when uphauling? How fast will I need to go on the 110L in order to take flight do you believe? I would hate to spend $600 on a foil for that board if it doesn't work well, then having to buy another board or conversion board and find it takes a different foil box and different foil than my 110L power box .
Select to expand quoteMagicRide said..IndecentExposur said..
The size of the board shouldn't determine the size of the sail. I've seen people putting foils on older, smaller boards. It will be a bit more unstable initially until you get the hang of it. You will need to get to 'speed' for the proper lift. Smaller boards will be harder to get onto a plane in lighter winds before the board lift. If you can uphaul the sail on that board, you should be okay to give it a shot.
I can uphaul the 110L. Will a foil add too much weight to the 110L and sink it more when uphauling? How fast will I need to go on the 110L in order to take flight do you believe? I would hate to spend $600 on a foil for that board if it doesn't work well, then having to buy another board or conversion board and find it takes a different foil box and different foil than my 110L power box .
Good point. Maybe grab the weight of the foil you're thinking of getting, add that weight to your body, and see if you can uphaul it. Just a thought.
I get your point, however. Should you invest a little to make what you have work (with the risk of it not), or get something more compatible with the newer stuff. I would think if you got something with the power plate, you could move that from board to board. The foils are heavier than I expected. I can weigh my carbon versions from SB if that helps. let me know.
I know a lot are focused on up hauling but considering that for most the skill to pump onto foil in sub 12kt winds is a long way off.
And the power needed to foil with out pumping is near identical to what you need to waterstart.
plus the moment you have any forward movement the foil is adding lift. Maybe the focus could be towards the feel of the board in action. ie: less swing weight.
Also as we move into more agile less speed strapless Windfoiling.
And the associated more centre line stances, even narrower boards become an option.
Select to expand quoteRAL INN said..
I know a lot are focused on up hauling but considering that for most the skill to pump onto foil in sub 12kt winds is a long way off.
And the power needed to foil with out pumping is near identical to what you need to waterstart.
plus the moment you have any forward movement the foil is adding lift. Maybe the focus could be towards the feel of the board in action. ie: less swing weight.
Also as we move into more agile less speed strapless Windfoiling.
And the associated more centre line stances, even narrower boards become an option.
Hmm, it sounds like I need a minimum of 10- 11 knots to get foiling. I was thinking less, but oh well. It's looking like I'd be foiling in 3-4 knots less wind than when I'd be on my 6.8 115L board in 13- 14 knots of wind to start planing. Not sure it's worth the price on only getting out 3 knots earlier than I am now. That's like the difference of a gust of wind or a lull. Good to have some technical info to go on about this.
Select to expand quoteMagicRide said..RAL INN said..
I know a lot are focused on up hauling but considering that for most the skill to pump onto foil in sub 12kt winds is a long way off.
And the power needed to foil with out pumping is near identical to what you need to waterstart.
plus the moment you have any forward movement the foil is adding lift. Maybe the focus could be towards the feel of the board in action. ie: less swing weight.
Also as we move into more agile less speed strapless Windfoiling.
And the associated more centre line stances, even narrower boards become an option.
Hmm, it sounds like I need a minimum of 10- 11 knots to get foiling. I was thinking less, but oh well. It's looking like I'd be foiling in 3-4 knots less wind than when I'd be on my 6.8 115L board in 13- 14 knots of wind to start planing. Not sure it's worth the price on only getting out 3 knots earlier than I am now. That's like the difference of a gust of wind or a lull. Good to have some technical info to go on about this.
It depends on how often you get 10-11 knots. If you get allot more days of 10-11 knot winds then it will substantially increase your sailing time. & you might find you prefer to foil on a smaller sail rather than plane your 115 with a 6.8 in 13-14...
I get 10- 11 knots all the time, but that's grouped into normally a 10-15 knot day. As you can see, both boards could be used in those winds. I guess I was just hoping to get out foiling in lesser winds, but that doesn't look like that would work. Foiling looks pretty cool, but it doesn't look like the cost out weighs the benefit, at least in the wind range I'm looking for. Not enough early wind range for me. Perhaps down the road board and foil designers will be able to fix that.
Just curious, does kite foiling need less wind than wind foiling? Seems that the kite would provide more lift than a sail, therefor pulling you and the board more upwards, needing less wind.
Select to expand quoteMagicRide said..
I get 10- 11 knots all the time, but that's grouped into normally a 10-15 knot day. As you can see, both boards could be used in those winds. I guess I was just hoping to get out foiling in lesser winds, but that doesn't look like that would work. Foiling looks pretty cool, but it doesn't look like the cost out weighs the benefit, at least in the wind range I'm looking for. Not enough early wind range for me. Perhaps down the road board and foil designers will be able to fix that.
Just curious, does kite foiling need less wind than wind foiling? Seems that the kite would provide more lift than a sail, therefor pulling you and the board more upwards, needing less wind.
Everything Ral inn said is true, if you want to foil sub 12 knots, you generally have to pump to get going, with the right technique. Even with a lifty free ride type foil.
but look at it from this perspective. (Im basing this a bit on my own abilities by the way) 10 to 15knts, you'll be foiling around a lot more of the time than you'll plane around on the 115. You might have to pump to get going initially, but the foil will do a much better job of keeping you going in a 10knt lull than the 115 will.
as to the kite foiling, they are amazing to watch. We watched one the other day foiling powered up on what was almost glass on the swan river. They do also suffer from the need to have the skill to get up on the foil sub 10knots. Much the same as us, some work is required to get the necessary apparent wind speed and foil speed before things start working for themselves.
Many a pleasant evening has been had enjoying a twilight beer, watching a kite foiler swim home, because theyve pushed their luck with wind and haven't made the grade.
One thing that you learn/discover while improving your foiling skills is that it is no longer a light wind substitute.
It becomes a full on new activity.
I love my slalom gear but only use it on special days, races, low tides.
rest of the time it's full on foiling.
So if you are going to gear up you might as well go for dedicated gear as you will soon be addicted !!!
Select to expand quoteMagicRide said..
I get 10- 11 knots all the time, but that's grouped into normally a 10-15 knot day. As you can see, both boards could be used in those winds. I guess I was just hoping to get out foiling in lesser winds, but that doesn't look like that would work. Foiling looks pretty cool, but it doesn't look like the cost out weighs the benefit, at least in the wind range I'm looking for. Not enough early wind range for me. Perhaps down the road board and foil designers will be able to fix that.
Just curious, does kite foiling need less wind than wind foiling? Seems that the kite would provide more lift than a sail, therefor pulling you and the board more upwards, needing less wind.
In 12-14kts on slalom gear, I can get going with a 7.7 or 8.6 and have an OK on/off session. Very hard work though and not especially exhilarating. In the same wind on a foil with a 7m, I will be fully lit and able to reach near my top speed on the foil (25kts-feels like 35!) And, best of all, absolutely flying the whole session, even through lulls of 6-7kts. The slalom/foil comparison in these conditions is definitely chalk and cheese.
I originally had similar ideas when I first started foiling in regards to filling a hole in my light wind gear arsenal but it's grown well beyond that. I still love my slalom gear but in under 20kts foiling just offers higher levels of stoke.
I agree with Sean with it not only being a light wind option. Most foilers I know have really gotten into getting out there in 20kts+
Boston and Sean, I really appreciate your input here, along with the others. Very well said. I had the wrong idea about foiling. Yes, I was going to use foiling as a light wind substitute, but as you both stated, it's much more than that. Yes, I will pick up foiling, get the correct board and foil for the job. But being "lit" up at 12 knots is very attractive and motivating to hear. I will watch for gear at the end of the season as demo gear and last year's models go on sale. I still need to buy an Ezzy Zeta 5.8 as well. Thanks guys!!
I haven't fin sailed since i started foiling a year ago. On windy days we get cheese grater chop and it's nice to be able to fly over it. Plus its just way more fun and challenging.
The foil begins to lift are any low speed. This begins to lift the board even before you are planing or foiling above the water.
Formula boards are famous for requiring massive pumping to get them up over their own bow wave to start planing. This is due to the massive nose rocker.
However, with a foil under a formula board, the foil lifts the board just enough to make planing really easy.
I weigh 200 pounds. In winds of 12 kts I can easily foil with a 6.4.
If you are foiling mostly in the light winds you mentioned, be sure to consider one of the large front wings out there. Seattle has mostly light winds. The foilers up there are saying that the Slingshot 76 and 84 wings are game-changers.
Select to expand quotesegler said..
The foil begins to lift are any low speed. This begins to lift the board even before you are planing or foiling above the water.
Formula boards are famous for requiring massive pumping to get them up over their own bow wave to start planing. This is due to the massive nose rocker.
However, with a foil under a formula board, the foil lifts the board just enough to make planing really easy.
I weigh 200 pounds. In winds of 12 kts I can easily foil with a 6.4.
If you are foiling mostly in the light winds you mentioned, be sure to consider one of the large front wings out there. Seattle has mostly light winds. The foilers up there are saying that the Slingshot 76 and 84 wings are game-changers.
So, should I go for the largest wing I can find, should the back wing be large too, or is it a package setup? I want a tall mast too. Might as well go all out with it and learn it well. So I'm assuming I can buy a tall mast, large front and back wing all in one package? Or is this a pick n choose game?
Also, when I'm learning to foil, can I even breathe when I'm on the board, or is every little shift of body weight going to throw the board into a diffent angle or direction?
Select to expand quoteMagicRide said..segler said..
The foil begins to lift are any low speed. This begins to lift the board even before you are planing or foiling above the water.
Formula boards are famous for requiring massive pumping to get them up over their own bow wave to start planing. This is due to the massive nose rocker.
However, with a foil under a formula board, the foil lifts the board just enough to make planing really easy.
I weigh 200 pounds. In winds of 12 kts I can easily foil with a 6.4.
If you are foiling mostly in the light winds you mentioned, be sure to consider one of the large front wings out there. Seattle has mostly light winds. The foilers up there are saying that the Slingshot 76 and 84 wings are game-changers.
So, should I go for the largest wing I can find, should the back wing be large too, or is it a package setup? I want a tall mast too. Might as well go all out with it and learn it well. So I'm assuming I can buy a tall mast, large front and back wing all in one package? Or is this a pick n choose game?
Also, when I'm learning to foil, can I even breathe when I'm on the board, or is every little shift of body weight going to throw the board into a diffent angle or direction?
I'm not much good to you for foil selection as I have only ever used one. (Starboard Race Team edition ) As far as I'm aware the key variables are your weight, preferred sail size and what type of foiling you aim to be doing. I have noticed that the bigger guys do tend to require a larger front wing for additional lift. I'm a lightweight (160lbs) and can get away with a small front wing but I'm happy to use a slightly larger race sail with it as well. Regarding the board sensitivity when learning, I found it quite hard initially but soon adapted. (crashing all the time will do that!) There is a lot to learn but that's half the fun!
Hopefully one of the more experienced foilers can advise you on foil selection.
Select to expand quoteMagicRide said..
The season has kicked off with relatively light winds here, and watching my buddy leave me in his dust with his kite foil is making me think more about wind foiling.
I have an early 2000 Naish Titan 110L board that I wanted Some info on putting a foil on. Would this work? Board is narrow, I believe around 62-64 wide. It does have a pretty good size rocker which may help with nose dives. How much wind would I need to foil that board? I'm 175 pounds and the largest sail I have is a 6.8. I hardly use the board and don't care if it gets damaged. Or am I wasting my time with this board. Eventually when I pick it up, I will get a true foil board. I'd rather ding up an old board while I'm learning, than a new one.
Well, what's the verdict? Are you going to use an old board and move forward or spend endless cash on a new setup?
Select to expand quoteIndecentExposur said..MagicRide said..
The season has kicked off with relatively light winds here, and watching my buddy leave me in his dust with his kite foil is making me think more about wind foiling.
I have an early 2000 Naish Titan 110L board that I wanted Some info on putting a foil on. Would this work? Board is narrow, I believe around 62-64 wide. It does have a pretty good size rocker which may help with nose dives. How much wind would I need to foil that board? I'm 175 pounds and the largest sail I have is a 6.8. I hardly use the board and don't care if it gets damaged. Or am I wasting my time with this board. Eventually when I pick it up, I will get a true foil board. I'd rather ding up an old board while I'm learning, than a new one.
Well, what's the verdict? Are you going to use an old board and move forward or spend endless cash on a new setup?
So yes, I'm going to wait until end of season when demo gear and this year's models get discounted and will buy a foil board with the largest wings possible to increase lift early. Which ever foil board looks good for the price at end of season, and will learn to foil next season. I like the Slingshot boards a lot, so we will see.
Thx everyone for your input!
I started with the NP AL pink foil on my 85 wide slalom board and it did the job, but when I changed to the full foil board (JP 135) it just made everything work better. I then changed my foils to the Starboard GT-R set up which is even better again, so my advice is to get the foil board when you get your foils if you can.
If you are a fan of slingshot gear, you can buy their foils with a large freeride style wing to start with, and buy a faster front wing later on because it's modular, so you just change or add things as you go. I hope you get the chance to get out and have a go soon coz it's awesome. :)
Select to expand quoteMaddlad said..
I started with the NP AL pink foil on my 85 wide slalom board and it did the job, but when I changed to the full foil board (JP 135) it just made everything work better. I then changed my foils to the Starboard GT-R set up which is even better again, so my advice is to get the foil board when you get your foils if you can.
If you are a fan of slingshot gear, you can buy their foils with a large freeride style wing to start with, and buy a faster front wing later on because it's modular, so you just change or add things as you go. I hope you get the chance to get out and have a go soon coz it's awesome. :)
My excitement for this is definitely building! Looking forward to it!
Select to expand quoteMaddlad said..
I started with the NP AL pink foil on my 85 wide slalom board and it did the job, but when I changed to the full foil board (JP 135) it just made everything work better. I then changed my foils to the Starboard GT-R set up which is even better again, so my advice is to get the foil board when you get your foils if you can.
If you are a fan of slingshot gear, you can buy their foils with a large freeride style wing to start with, and buy a faster front wing later on because it's modular, so you just change or add things as you go. I hope you get the chance to get out and have a go soon coz it's awesome. :)
My excitement for this is definitely building! Looking forward to it!
