Hi,
I have a Moses Vento 85 with the 790 wing. I just bought a Naish lift 4.7, and this is a great combo for 10-20 knots of wind. I just had 3 great back to back sessions in those conditions. i am really surprised by the lift 4.7 , I am under the impression that it gets me going with the same wind as my North e-type 5.8 at 10-12 knots ( with pumping )
So I am wondering what should be my next purchase to increase my wind range. I am convinced that dedicated foil sails are worth it
I weigh 175 Lbs
First, for higher wind : I feel I am getting too much pull from the 4.7 sail at around 20 knots. I also feel the leach is acting and that the sail feel less stable. The foil is still manageable , I do not have too much front foot pressure, and I do not breach. I move my back foot forward as needed
So at this point , I am considering getting a Naish lift 3.7 or otherwise buy a Moses 720 mm Wing ( one or the other ideally , not both ). The goal is to cover gusts up to 25 knots comfortably. I am wondering if just switching the foil wing would be enough ? The 720 is a much smaller wing and can get up to 25 knots speed from what I read ( vs 20 knot for the 790). But would that change anything about the the sail pull ? I guess not , but I can be wrong.
Just for my interpretation , assuming that I would have both smaller sail and wing, when would you recommend to switch to the 720 wing? Should I use it with the 3.7 only , or also with the 4.7 ?
Now for the lighter wind range , I would need one larger sail optimal for 8-15 knots. I am wondering if all foil sails have similar grunt and pump ability as the Naish lift sails ?
I think that the Naish 6.4 is too large for my needs. And the 5.7 requires a 400cm mast which I do not have. So I am leaning toward a flyer 6.0 or a F-type 5.8 ( which would fit on my 439cm north gold). I just want to make sure that they will be the right complement to my 4.7, without overlap.
thanks
Max
In the Columbia Gorge, where the wind is strong and usually gusty, quite a lot foilers use the i76 or 790 and nothing else. Ever. They don't even own a second wing. All they ever change is the sail size. Sails: Flyers, Goyas, Phantoms, Severnes, Ezzys, Northwaves, everything. I still like my 1999-vintage Sailworks XT and 2001-vintage Sailworks Revolution for foiling.
The Lifts are special because they generate a lot of power for their size. The 5.7 seems to be equivalent to a 6.5 or 7.0 more normal sail. Their design seems to favor bigger wings because they aren't a slippery sail so you don't get the acceleration that you get with a foil specific bigger sail (say, Glide 7.0) or even normal freeride/freerace sail.
On the smaller side, as others have mentioned, most of us are just using wave/freestyle sails. They generally work well. The qualities that make a good foil specific sail - not too much twist, shorter boom, lighter weight - really start to merge with the behaviour a lot of smaller sails already have.
I wouldn't get too hung up on it on the smaller size. I do think that foil specific makes more of a difference as you get to 6.5 (for which the Lift 5.7 is a proxy) and above. That said, there are definitely some pretty cool smaller foil-specific sails such as the Flyer, Swart and Glide for example.
I sail in quite gusty conditons, so I guess I will stick with my 790mm wing and try a 4.2 North wave sail that I already have for stronger wind.
I guess it will probably a good step down from the Lift 4.7, and remains stable up to 25 knots +
The sails comes with North VTS, with indicators for downhaul (min and max). For foiling, I plan to use the min setting; but I am wondering if some go even beyond that min setting ?
For the lighter wind, I understand that my lift 4.7 is possibly as powerful as my 5.8 freeride sail, so there is no point to use that sail.
I have an S-type 7.3, but it does not work well without near max downhaul ; otherwise the top camber comes off. I tried it once, and found it was not really efficient to pump.
So I guess I should give a try my old 6.5 freeride sail...
But from what I read, freestyle and wave sails can work well, but not freeride.. so it does not look promising.
I found is this article, in which they compare the Naish Lift 5.7 with the Flyer 7.0... Which implies that the lift 5.7 has a similar range as the Flyer 7.0 ?
shop.wind-nc.com/blogs/windsurf-sup-foil-buyers-guides/foil-specific-windsurfing-sail-test-sailworks-flyer-and-naish-lift-review
When foiling with a I76 or a Moses 790 (which are large wing topping in speed at app 20 knots) , I am under the impression that the acceleration and pull from a sail like the flyer 7.0 would not be much useful ; the 5.7 sail would probably be enough to reach the wing top speed;
The 7.0 rather looks like a mean to achieve higher speed with a smaller wing (with less drag) but also much less stable than the I76 / 790 (justifying the need for cambers, etc.)
Naish came in with a Lift Freeride for 2020, which I think is going is trying to do what the flyer is doing (without camber )?
Bottom line, I think a Naish 5.7 is really what I need for my freeride objective ; but really wondering if the 6.4 could be an option. I will ask Naish tech support, let's see.
I ride made my 5.7 Lift for light and gusty winds. It gets me up in 10-12mph on a i99 wing and keeps me going up to 20mph wind. Once the wind feels like its a steady 16 mph plus I will mostly go out on my 5.6 wave sail because its faster and I have the wind to pump against. All my sails are Simmer Black tips. They handle the wind gusts well and are light and easy to control.
I tend to use my i99 with the Lift and sometimes the 5.6 Blacktop but if I feel the wind is steady and above 16 mph I change to my i76 and stay with that all the way down to my 4.0m and around 30mph wind.
I rarely use my 6.4 lift because the 5.7 is so good. I don't really see the need to have smaller Lifts in windy conditions because they lack control in higher wind and you don't really need the grunt because you have wind.
Hi, what do you mean by rigging very full? Min downhaul and min outhaul? I'm a newbie at foiling, 2 days out and really enjoyed it! This is how I rigged my wavesail. Now i've received a tips to max the outhaul, apparently it will bite way more in apparent wind. I receive also a second tips to max out outhaul and downhaul to even more working with the apparent wind unless the wind is very light or big slow foil. Any thoughts on that?
On my end, started to use an adjustable outhaul on my 4.7 Lift to experiment faster on the outhaul.
I adjust it to manufacturer recommentation for easy pumping and lifting, and then as soon as I am up, I increase the outhaul 1-2 cm , up to 5-6 cm more when the gusts are strong. And I think going even further next time (up to +10 cm).
So far it works well in my gusty lake conditons ; it really helps tu get going without much effort (pumping efficiency of the sail is just unbelievable compare to a normal sial) , and then I flatten the sails once up to avoid being overpowered.
I know adjustable outhaul are only used in regular windsurfing with large sails, but I think it is different for windfoiling in gusty conditions and constantly changing average wind.
In one of the video online, Bruce from Sailworks strongly recommends it.
As for the downhaul on regular sail, I believe the best approach, in case you have a visual trim system like North/Duotone, is to downhaul to the minimum recommended, but not beyond that (otherwise, from experience, the sail will become unstable very quickly iif the wind picks up slightly).
I run bare minimum downhaul and maximum printed outhaul or perhaps a touch more. That is on wave sails which set with a lot of positive outhaul regularly.
No expert but Im using my freeride and slalom sails for foiling but going a size down in masts for eg my most used foiling sail atm is an old KA koncept 6.6 which isnt typically a good pumpable sail it is slippery and stable for wsurf but the sail becomes softer and pumpable with less tension on a 400 mast instead of a 430. Ive also used half and half well, as long as the bottom half is the softer section. I'll get around to propper foiling gear in the future but can definately get away with alternatives at the start.
When it rigs with significant outhaul past neutral. HSM wave sails all seem to rig this way. I'm not sure on others.