Men came down to the last reach
Select to expand quotePaducah said..
Men came down to the last reach
Fireworks: www.facebook.com/MatteoIachinoProWindsurfer/photos/a.636676153120728/3164675993654052/
Wow. What a crybaby. It's amazing he can't see that this was a great event for the sport. It sound like he'd rather they just cancel the event that run it in less than ideal conditions.
Select to expand quotelwalker said..Paducah said..
Men came down to the last reach
Fireworks: www.facebook.com/MatteoIachinoProWindsurfer/photos/a.636676153120728/3164675993654052/
Wow. What a crybaby. It's amazing he can't see that this was a great event for the sport. It sound like he'd rather they just cancel the event that run it in less than ideal conditions.
His perception is that a number of format rules were not adhered to. Not saying he's right or wrong.
Matteo calms down and pleads his case: www.facebook.com/groups/271504922974281/permalink/2180988098692611/
Select to expand quotePaducah said..
Matteo calms down and pleads his case: www.facebook.com/groups/271504922974281/permalink/2180988098692611/
He's a sore looser. His original, very angry post is still up (and has not been edited, it seems, which might have been appropriate after cooling down).
The race format is typical for olympic racing, where you have quite normal to have qualifying racing to determine who's in the final races that decide the medals. The Notice of Race (new.myliveregatta.com/files/117/ONB/iQFOiL%20Europeans%20SI%20NOR%20Final.pdf) explained it quite clearly. Complaining about it afterwards is a very immature move. Complaining that he had lower scores in the discards than other racers is just ridiculous.
The races were held on a mountain lake. Anyone who ever sailed on a lake knows that winds are usually variable on lakes, and differ a lot from spot to spot. The IQ foil class rules (drive.google.com/file/d/1cCWmgRCmjBWBEe-w2XLDMjobjry2YEW9/preview) state "A course race will not be started if the wind speed before the start is less than 10 knots". It also states:
"After a race has started if the wind speed drops below 10 knots but the Race Committee deems the racing is still fair, the race will not be abandoned".
Most likely, the wind speed was measured on the start boat. The races lined up closer to shore for the starts, and the wind there may well have been a few knots lower. But in every race in the final 6 races (3 men, 3 women) that was completed, the vast majority of foilers had no problem to start foiling. I watched them all, and remember just one person in two races who could not get away.
In the semi final where Iachino got kicked out, the top 5 were easily foiling through the entire course. They pumped when necessary, but only for a small fraction of the course. After tacks, they needed 3-5 tacks to get going again. That's really not much.
If you watch the race, you see where Iachino falls behind: shortly after the start. He had an average start but still was with the pack, but then stopped pumping earlier than everyone else - and as a result, fell back into 6th or 7th place.
In the stronger wind in the earlier races, Iachino's weight gave him a slight advantage over lighter guys on exactly the same gear. In the lighter wind semi final, his weight may have worked a bit against him. But Sebastian K?rdel, who 191 cm tall and not exactly skinny, did really well. The reason Kiran Badloe beat him in the final was more race experience by the 2019-2020 RS:X world champion, and better pumping on the last few hundred meters where he overtook K?rdel.
Overall, the races were very fun to watch - at least as much fun as PWA slalom or foil races, and way better than RS:X.
As a spectator I really enjoyed the course slalom, it showed some tactics...reading winds etc.
However, a few rules seemed to not be respected according to Profit while he was broadcasting (read between lines) and then it was clearer on Iachino post. PWA vs Sailing. So I guess in lighter wind they were suppose to use a slalom course over a course racing? I guess it give a big advantage to the lighter sailor and the fittest sailors(rs-x)?
But as a spectator, that was really cool.
Select to expand quoteNordRoi said..
As a spectator I really enjoyed the course slalom, it showed some tactics...reading winds etc.
However, a few rules seemed to not be respected according to Profit while he was broadcasting (read between lines) and then it was clearer on Iachino post. PWA vs Sailing. So I guess in lighter wind they were suppose to use a slalom course over a course racing? I guess it give a big advantage to the lighter sailor and the fittest sailors(rs-x)?
Neither Ben Proffitt nor Iachino had actual wind readings during the races. The race director most certainly had wind readings.
According to the rules, slalom should be preferred over course racing when the wind drops below 10 knots. The rules don't specify, but that's usually averages - meaning lulls can be below 10 knots.
You also have to keep in mind that the races were done in the mountains, at 1800 m (almost 6000 ft). The air density at this height is about 20% lower than at sea level. That does not affect wind speed measurements, but it does affect pressure in the sail. For windsurfing on Lake Silvaplana, you'll need one or two sail sizes bigger than in the same wind at ocean level.
The idea behind switching to slalom is to have fair races on the foil even in lighter wind. In general, course races are preferred for the medal races because they require more tactics and actual sailing skills than slalom.
During the semifinal where Iachino was eliminated, 7 of the 8 racers (including Iachino) foiled around the entire course on 9 m sails, which is small for foil racing (the formula foilers a week earlier used up to 11 m in more wind). That's a clear indication that the races were fair.
Do light weight racers have an advantage when the wind is lighter? Yes. But that advantage is small, as K?rdel showed by coming in second, and almost winning the finals. Like Iachino, K?rdel comes from PWA slalom. He's definitely heavier than your typical RS:X guy. But if the wind is light, any advantage from lower weight also exists on a slalom course.
Switching from RS:X to foiling has eliminated most of the weight advantage that lighter sailors had. In RS:X, the body type was pretty uniform: tall and skinny. Guys 10 kg heavier than typical did not have much of a chance. That has change.
The bigger difference is not in weight (or fitness), but in specialization and experience. Nicolas Goyard did great because he's a foil specialist. Sebastian K?rdel, who placed 2nd and won many races, also trains a lot on the foil. Kiran, the winner, had to beat the current holder of the Olympic gold medal to qualify for the Olympics. The reason that he beat K?rdel in the finals was obvious: more experience in course racing. When Sebastian thought he had the race because he was in the lead on the last reach, Kiran pumped to increase his speed on the foil. By the time Sebastian caught on and started pumping, too, it was too late. Quite exciting.
In contrast, Iachino's strength in the races were his starts and his speed on downwind legs. Before the start of the semi final, the video shows that he seems to be talking first to the guys in the inflatable, and then to the guys in the starting line boat. It seems like a safe bet that he was demanding a change to slalom, and got angry when they did not change the format. That led to a mediocre start, and his obvious unwillingness to pump as long as the other guys (which was still a whole lot less than what you would have seen in an RS:X race). His attitude and anger management issues seem to have more to do with him missing the finals than the light wind.
Well I enjoyed the 12 to 8 to 4 to 1inner takes all format. I was a bit sceptical at first before I watched it, but as the races unfolded, damn it was a good spectacle. Both mens and women's! Tantrum aside I really enjoyed watching it.
Now do I want this at club races, probably not! Because I and most others would want everyone sailing as often as possible. But for national or greater finals, wow! Great spectacle. 
I thoroughly enjoyed it too, awesome racing all round.
now that the IQ foiling is in the olympics, we're going to see a lot more protesting going on. It is a part of racing, good or bad. The race isn't over until the protests are for the day. As much as Iachinos dummy spit was probably motivated by conditions less than stellar for his physique, reality is he could possibly have protested the race committee over it if they didn't follow the correct race format and procedure to account for the wind conditions.
as for the result he had to drop, unfortunate to have to drop a first when its not your worst result, but he just has to accept that.
I thought the whole week was fascinating. This is why it's good they are making us watch those RS:X dogs one more time - so they can figure out what works and what doesn't for foil.
Have they figured out what happened to that abandoned women's race? Just a huge header or something in the water?
I did wish that either Ben P would relax about it or actually have production control of which shot they were using.
As far as Iacchino - if I had a dime for every sore loser I've raced against...
I wonder How long they'll stick with the 12 - 8 - 4 format? I get both sides of the argument, for the riders, if they sail well enough the entire week to be far enough ahead, then they probably deserve a gold, for the spectators, sometimes (despite double points) a medal race can be the least exciting race to watch because 50% of the spots are locked in regardless of the final result. I guess it's a fairness vs excitement debate. Even from the riders point of view though, I don't think anything can beat winning the last race to win an event. I think Iachino has a bit of a rep for being a sook, which he underlined with his post race Instagram antics. He's gonna look like a ****en idiot if he decides Garda suits him and wants to give the worlds a crack!
An Olympic sprinter may get a world record in a semi final but doesn't win gold until he wins the final
I sort of don't get foil slalom from a sailing point of view as the foils are so amazing upwind it seems a bit of a waste to not have upwind legs. On the other hand they are doing slalom in winds that look like about 5 to 10 knots to me. The video compression makes it look lighter than it is but still the wind looks very soft. Being able to run slalom comps in such light winds can only be a good thing.
While I don't really get doing slalom on foils from a sailing point of view I totally get it from a promotional point of view. It's better for spectators, sponsors and manufacturers.
I wonder how foil slalom will affect foil board design? will foil race boards become more slalom oriented or will there still be formula foil boards with slalom dedicated foil boards coming out in coming seasons. What would a dedicated slalom foil board even look like? Will the trickle down of slalom foil gear evolve into the new freerace? It's going to be an exciting few years I can't wait.
Select to expand quoteDan133 said..
An Olympic sprinter may get a world record in a semi final but doesn't win gold until he wins the final
Yeah but Olympic sprinting is not really comparable to sailing is it? The conditions for all intents and purposes are identical every single time, this is far from the case in sailing. I reckon if you're someone like Goyard/Kordal etal who basically dominated all week over a range of conditions to only lose right at the end because the wind went super super light you'd be spewing. That's why a sailing regatta is obviously held over a large number of races with discards, to even the playing field. Also the fact that in the first medal race, which was abandoned, Goyard had already gone around the top mark for the last time in first and the top 3 were still foiling, you'd be double pissed. There was definitely more wind in that race, yes maybe too little for course racing but they started it and had literally almost completed the race, the top 3 were foiling and the last guy only wasn't because he rolled the dice went right into shore and sailed into a hole.
Now you can't argue with the spectacle, it was amazing and maybe that's what's needed to appeal to the masses but for someone like myself who grew up racing regattas it seems to fly against almost everything the sport has always been about....but I guess that's progress eh 
It is a shame that the rules are forcing organisers too much to get the medal races completed. What would happen in a 5 day event if they had 4 great full days of racing, then day 5 zero wind, no medal race so no gold medal??
Select to expand quotejackmarq said..
I guess it's a fairness vs excitement debate.
There is a fairness argument to hold a separate set of medal races with just the top competitors. The fleet regattas are very crowded events, which creates a relatively large chance that the result in a race is affected by "wrong" actions of a competitor that's not in the top 10. With friends from the same team (or other teams) in the race, that can even be intentional, to boost the chances of the team's top player. When (almost) all races are scored together to determine the win, that can distort the medal rankings. In view of the gigantic cheating programs some nations have had to score Olympic medals, this is not a far-fetched idea. Reducing the field to 12, then 8, then 4 pretty much eliminates these issues.
In comparison, PWA-type slalom eliminations can seem less fair. The final top 8 ranking in an elimination is from a single heat. Any mistake in the heats before the final means no top-8 ranking. That mistake can be rounding a buoy in 4th place when the guy in front of you crashes and you can't avoid it, or if some crashes into you from behind. The only reason this format seems to give "fair" results is that each event runs multiple eliminations, hopefully with discards, and that the yearly PWA ranking is based on multiple events, also hopefully with discards that effectively eliminate random accidents.
From a spectator perspective, the mix of different race formats and number of racers between initial and final races was a definitive winner.
Controversies aside I want to know how is IQ pronounced
Eye-Cue (favored by English/German speakers)
Eye-Coo (favored by French)
I guess for the foreseeable future, the men will have to use the first one (Kiran) and the women (Helene) the second? 
btw, props to Kordel. During PWA last year, his jibes sucked at it cost him big time in a few races by his own admission. For a big guy, he did well in that last heat to stay on the foil.
Edit: boardsurfr, enjoyed that interview. His excitement in talking about the last reach was telling. "I was going to catch him or blow up." I think this is what makes competing fun for them. Pushing to a literal, not figurative, edge.
I'd day waiting period of one week. One single marathon race that determine the winner takes all.
Or a full fleet slalom demolition Derby, no rules and the last one standing up win.
Or a normal awesome sailing competition like the formula foil world championship...
Select to expand quoteDarrylG said..
I vote for option 2. Figure 8 slalom to the death
Chinese Downhill ?
This is also iQfoils first major event. I'm sure they will learn from their mistakes on the RC side. Can only get better which is just awesome for the future of the class. Again awesome spectacacle and the RSX olympic caliber sailors are physically superior at this point. Kiran just out pumped them to the finish.
I find it hard to believe that anyone from Australia would be against a winner take all final at the Olympics.
Select to expand quotefjdoug said..DarrylG said..
I vote for option 2. Figure 8 slalom to the death
Chinese Downhill ?
First to cross the finish line, any way you can. Sounds like fun.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..
I find it hard to believe that anyone from Australia would be against a winner take all final at the Olympics.
HG and Roy. Classic.
Stephen Bradbury wins the Chinese short course sprint skating Olympics.
Option 2, foil until victory, HG and Roy to give Ben Profitt competition for commentary.
Thomas didn't seem to impressed either with medal races
www.instagram.com/p/CEeJyCBIl5e/?igshid=9zdr1qlzkw8q
Select to expand quoteDarrylG said..
Thomas didn't seem to impressed either with medal races
www.instagram.com/p/CEeJyCBIl5e/?igshid=9zdr1qlzkw8q
That and his following post. But, I respect his approach more. He recognized what was done correctly, pointed out where things could be improved and although he was obviously disappointed or even angry, he didn't smash his toys while kicking and screaming on the floor. I fully understand how someone as competitive as Iachino can have very strong and passionate feelings but his role as a professional and representative for his sponsors requires him to take a more measured approach like Thomas did.
There is going to be a tension between what's best for the sailors and what's best for the guy/gal who's never seen a windfoiling race prior to watching it on the Olympics - and the need to retain their interest. It will likely be a bumpy road.
LOL Thomas was screaming his head off at the comitee and speakers during the event.
on the replays you can hear him booing and yelling behind ben Proffitt
he just didn't go public about it.
