Slingshot: 76 vs. 68 vs. 65

I have the Time code 68 to compliment my I84. Use my TC from 18-20 mph on a 5.0 and my I84 up to 22 mph with a 4.0 so a good crossover range. TC feel silky and its top end is beyond my ability at the moment.

106kgs on 142 litre board

All great wings! I was using the i84 so much (even on a 4.5 up to 25 knots) that I forgot about the i76, but just lately I have been using the i76 a lot more. The i76 I find goes upwind much quicker and its great for turning in super strong puffs (17-25 knots).

Anything in the over 25 knots, I use the TC 68 and its a very stable foil, I have never lost control using it (I use B position on wizard 125).
I actually cracked my first foil duck gybe on the TC 68 as it foils out of the turn fast and smooth.

From the reports that I have read the new i65 looks to be a winner as well, much like the TC 68, nice smooth turns and plenty of pop if needed for air time? the i65 has a flatter profile, so should go as quick as you can hold on!

Pic is the TC 68 with 42 rear in B. That day was really gusty over 35 knots and it was no problem at all.

Thanks for all the feedback. I got a bit confused with all the different names for the older foils. Looks like I have the H2 = Gamma 68. I tried it only twice. It's better than the i84 in regards to reacting less to under-water currents from chop, but not as great for the shorter masts I sometimes need to use since it spins out earlier and breaches are more abrupt.

I expect the 65 to be significantly better than the TC 68. I would not be surprised if it matches or exceeds the low end of the 68, even though it has a lot less area. It would be the logical addition to our 76 + 84. BUT I get to use the 76 only when the stars align in a certain, but unspecified, way. Part of the problem is that our winds tend to be iffy. There's been a few days where we used both the slapper and the foil with the same sail, being nicely powered on each. On such days, the 76 is reserved for my wife. Maybe at some point in the future, she'll try a smaller foil, and decide she likes it. Then she might let me use the 76. Or maybe that day will never come.

I'm sure I'd be perfectly happy with a 76 in just about any condition where I want to foil right now. But adding a second 76 just does not seem right. On sails and board sizes, we are (almost) always 1-2 sizes apart. Going from the 84 straight to the 65 seems like a big jump - probably too big. Add to all that the list price difference ($249 vs. $543 US), and it's the TC 68 that I ordered. There's a (small) chance that we get to try the i65 even before the TC 68 arrives, and discover that a "3 Infinity" setup would have been perfect, but at the price of a good G10 fin, that's a risk I can live with.

I have i84, i76, i65 and Warpspeed 65. Never tried the timecode 68

The range of the 76 is insane and it should be the go to wing for most riders, except those heavier folks or those who foil in the lightest of winds.

The warpspeed is exhilarating, but faster than I really want to go on a foil. Also you basically need to be at planing speed before it will foil, but it was a good option for foiling on days when I should have been windsurfing on small gear. The warpspeed is not so great at staying on the foil during lulls too.

I recently got the i65 and it will likely replace the warpspeed 65 as my highwind foil, as it foils a little earlier, and handles the lulls better. It doesn't go as fast of course but maybe that is a good thing. I do not expect the i65 to replace the i76 (my current go to foil).

I recently got the warp 65, it sits along side my infinity 76 and 84. The 76 has a huge range and is comfortable even in 25knts. The warp65 for me is to use in 20knts plus when i want to go fast. It definatley needs to be going quick to get on foil bit when it does its amazing. The turns and gybes you can do are so fast its like gybing on rails.

I think required board width needs much more study in general. For instance a common statement is that tail width is needed to create leverage over the foil. Another common statement is that with larger sails you need more tail width. Is the width needed for the foil or the sail? Further, what sail attributes effect this balance? How does sail aspect ratio, location of the sails draft, and foil design all contribute the required tail width. My gut tells me it is related to the down force created by the sail. I am searching for the sweet spot in freeride gear where the smallest kit both in size and quantity covers 5-35 knots. This probably deserves a new thread.

I really like the diagrams. Couple things to make it perfect and something we can all keep in our physics toolboxes.

Figure 9 is missing a couple vectors. The front wing not only lifts everything, but it also acts as a fulcrum. Downforce LT has to be balanced out by an upforce directly under the sail mast base; call it UT. The W vector shown is only for the rider. There is also a weight vector from the board and sail/mast/boom pressing down on the mast base; call this one W2. W2 is balanced by the up vector UT.

Then, consistent with this is that CG is further forward, between the L and UT vectors. Since UT is much smaller than L, the CG is usually very close to the sail mast base.

Figure 14 applies to fins, but not to foils. In my experience on the water, there is very little side force on the foil mast when in flight. Instead, the force to counter the sail's side force FK is created by a tilt in the front wing at L x sin?. Watch all the videos. Nobody foils with a level board. Even when going dead abeam the board has 10-20 degrees of upwind tilt. When the racers foil upwind, their boards have a good 30-40 degrees of upwind tilt. It's the front wing doing all the sideforce work.

I don't see any flat boards in those pictures. They are all heeled to windward.

In my old formula days, to fly upwind we used to stand way out on the rail and heel the board to leeward. This bent the 70 cm fin a little bit underneath the board to get a mild foiling effect. This lifted the board out of the water a little, and resulted in A LOT more speed upwind. This is the reason why formula racers were all gaga about really soft fins.

So, for foil racing, again on really wide boards, yes, standing way out there on the rail lets the rider leverage the rocking force of the foil mast. And, yes, in this way, there might be some "fin" action exerted by the foil mast.

But again, every single one of those racers has his/her board heeled to windward. They are using their front wings to provide the upwind climb angles.

To see this in even stronger light, check out the kitefoilers who are using ram-air kites on strapless boards with foils with REALLY long masts. They heel those puppies a full 45 degrees and can climb upwind like crazy. It's the front wing doing all the upwind work. On a light day at the Event Site last summer, I watched 8 of those guys out there practicing their upwind/downwind.

For freeride foiling, we don't need to climb upwind at crazy angles and speeds. Most of our foiling is abeam. Even abeam, I have yet to see a completely level board out there. Foilers are not using their masts as fins.

I have tried really hard, many times, to point upwind with a dead-flat board by simply pointing upwind and letting the mast (strut) act as a giant fin. This works for slogging speeds prior to flight, but it absolutely does not work when up in flight.

When I try this flat-board upwind turn in flight, it simply does not turn upwind. It continues to track strongly in the initial direction. The mast keeps its airfoil section flying through the water at basically zero angle of attack. When I look down behind the board, there is no asymmetric tearing or turbulence or splashing of water off the mast. It never changes from completely symmetric flow. In fact, when I really push it, all the happens is that the mast stalls.

On the other hand, all I have to to is heel the board a little to windward to get things to turn upwind. So, while heeled, the mast is still flying at zero angle of attack, and the tilted wing is now providing some upwind lift whose force is the sine of the heel angle.

I invited all foilers to try this same experiment. Try turning a deal-flat board to windward while in flight. Doesn't work.

Figure 9 above still needs to have vectors UT and W2, and the CG still needs to be moved forward toward the mast base.