I have read many places now across the forum from many different posters that they have experienced or they had a friend experience to loose the foil all together while out windfoiling. But none really explaining the exact root cause for this fatal loss?
1. Is it all the many screws or bolts coming loose? (think there are always minimum two at same time to hold it together, so one going loose should not mean disaster or what?)
2. Is it because the windfoiler did not take proper care in tightening these screws/bolts before going out or something else with them?
3. Would you need to control and tightening them up several times during the day when out windfoiling?
4. Is it due to material fracture that it breaks apart?
So when loosing the foilfin, what is it really that you have lost? Where is it that it has disconnected? And do you know why?
I "lost" my plane (wings+fuselage) once, luckily it was all carbon and floated. I was using too short screws for the fuselage-mast connection and stripped the inserts. I have a number of those foils around and quite the extensive supply of titanium screws to fit all the different sizes of prototype parts. Sometimes that goes wrong. I just lost it during flight with no real cause other than I was pumping. (105L/4.9)
I think the most common causes of loosing the whole thing is when using a non-foilready board, and having the foil break loose with a part of your board or when the screws break. i've broken the back screw a number of times, but I think you either have to forget to put the front screw in there, or you have to do something incredible to get the front screw to break as there is normally no preassure on there. Maybe if you try to keep flying after loosing the backscrew..
I've seen the top of the screwwells of a lot of (not my F-One boards luckily, but cobra production) foilready boards break or show wear in 2-3 years of heavy use, so if even those can give out the average box is not ready for the forces, definately with prolonged use.
Two racer friends of mine hit bottom or obstructions, one ripped the whole tail off his board, the other just both tuttle screws ripped thru the box reinforcement.
Both f4 carbon course race foils still in the mud at Berkeley Ca.
I lost a Slingshot because their 10mm to 6mm converters are junk. But it was in 3m of water at high tide and I got it back the next day.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
I lost a Slingshot because their 10mm to 6mm converters are junk. But it was in 3m of water at high tide and I got it back the next day.
That's interesting, I know several foilers been using the reducers for couple of years and no issues. They do tie a leash to be on the safe side though.
Did the bolts come out of the reducers or did the bolts break?
The two cases of loss I am aware of are my own when the foil took a whole chunk out of the board and promptly sank. The second case is a team mate who forgot to put the bolts in.
one year ago today, I posted this www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Can-you-use-an-old-slalom-board-for-foiling---Or-How-to-find-a-lost-foil-?page=1#19
Happy memories.
Select to expand quoteCoreAS said..Grantmac said..
I lost a Slingshot because their 10mm to 6mm converters are junk. But it was in 3m of water at high tide and I got it back the next day.
That's interesting, I know several foilers been using the reducers for couple of years and no issues. They do tie a leash to be on the safe side though.
Did the bolts come out of the reducers or did the bolts break?
The reducer broke. Specifically the rear one. Titanium was a very poor choice for that particular item since it is brittle.
I've since done a much better 6mm conversion by machinging in 13mm bushing locations like most foils have.
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
i've broken the back screw a number of times, but I think you either have to forget to put the front screw in there, or you have to do something incredible to get the front screw to break as there is normally no preassure on there. Select to expand quote
i often wonder why they don't use larger bolts than M6 on mast to board connections. I know its only one part of the problem, but given the fact that rear bolts have been known to snap under the load, even moving up to M8 might save some grief.
No. However, it depends on what you mean by "stable."
Titanium resists saltwater corrosion so well that the navies of the world use Ti for submarines and ships. Ti has electrochemical and kinetic properties that allow it to be in galvanic contact with carbon and other metals (such as aluminum) without corrosion.
However, for our use Ti is overkill. It is expensive, is subject to spalling, and is not necessary when a good stainless steel does the job just as well. Most stainless alloys also can be in galvanic contact with carbon and aluminum without corrosion.
If your equipment came with Ti fasteners, great. Keep using them without worry. If you have to replace them, go stainless.
In any case, cheap insurance is grease for all surfaces that come in contact with other surfaces, such as screws and bolts. Marine grease, white lithium grease, tefgel--it all works.
Select to expand quotechoco said..
I've got a leash on mine just incase
This kind of leash did not work on a friend's slingshot which failed at the mast/masthead connection. The mast slipped through the loop and down. I haven't seen or heard of this kind of failure with a Naish so you are probably good. Cautious SS owners however may wish to use tape, drill a hole in the mast and use thin kite cord, etc.
This gives me piece of mind.
www.windance.com/NSI-SUP-Rubber-Mounting-Plates/13560/
NSI looks good.
Catastrophes do happen, but nobody can prevent every possible case.
Try to mitigate to as few as you can, be careful, keep your eyes open.
Since day 1, I'ved used a spectra loop around the foil mast tied to both rear footstraps.
It will not prevent EVERY catastrophe.
So I read here above that the foil fin can go MIA under various circumstances, but would enjoy to get better clarity on the root cause behind it?
Aka the cases mentioned on when the entire finbox or back end of the board is ripped off with it, I suppose its either because the rider went onto rocks in the water or the board itself had been worn out/not made for windfoiling, so in both cases a real material breach where one is direct riders own fault (sailing onto rocks) and the other a mix as the board was not strong enough to support the beating it got. (board structure failure due to the high forces involved). But are these causes the most prevalent then?
Or is it much more frequent the following happens:
Foil fin was assembled using not correct bolt/screw lengths or some were even forgotten to be inserted? Or screws/bolts were correct but not adequately tightened...? Which in all cases, guess we can place the root cause squarely on the rider him/her-self?
Personally I am all new to this domain, but was perplexed with all the many screws and bolts in the Infinity foil bag I got. And only a limited guidance included on how actually to put it together for my own specific purpose and situation (Levitator 150 board and 84cm Infinity foil). So made now a quickguide I have plastic laminated to put in my Infinity bag as reminder on what goes where. And I also simply removed all the many pieces that have no relevance to my current usage, and keep all those components at home in separate bag.
This was during a fully powered jibe. I hit a sandy bottom and ripped the box half way out I pulled it out the rest of the way back on the beach. To fix it I just glued it back in and clapped it then and glassed a much larger patch over it. Now when I see boards with very little reinforcements over there boxes I now know they will rip out with a very lite impact.
I got lucky that this happened at a user friendly spot and not out in the middle of SF bay where I sail most of the time. I have a lot of fish strike out on the bay and on the very first session after the repair I hit a very large critter 3.5km from the island that I launch from and the new repair was fine. You can see how small the initial install patch and where it tore out was versus the second patch was muck thick and larger.
I'm thinking about making hinged so it just snaps out and you can just snap it back in. Any input on that?
Select to expand quoteCoreAS said..
WTF is that? We hit alligator gar here, but that one stopped you pretty good! 
porpoise
Select to expand quoteCoreAS said..
WTF is that? We hit alligator gar here, but that one stopped you pretty good!
Great repair.
Like the half straps, looks like brand is rideengine. Thought they would be the other way around, but opening forwards seems to work better for the porpoise catapult.
Have you tried these on the front straps?
Heard a guy, Anthony S, hit Ashby Shoals in Berkeley and ripped off his front carbon wing.
The NSI stick-on loops are fine, but expensive. I use those stick-on square bases that you can get for zip ties. However, I peel off the sticky foam tape and put on the 3M gray sticky foam tape that NSI uses. You can get it at auto parts stores. They sell it for stick-on exterior trim on cars and trucks. The stuff is REALLY sticky. It is gray with a red peel backing.
I put one of those square bases on each side of the top of the foil mast, and run a length of kite line through them and up to a footstrap. I have never had one come off.
That's a great DIY hack. From a risk perspective 1) Some mitigation is better than none, 2) sticking the square on both side, brilliant and cost effective.
Beware that: 1) its a thin piece of plastic it may break under stress (stress test) 2) the plastic zip tie base would breakdown overtime from UV exposure 3) the ocean is increasing in acidity it will hasten the degradation of the plastic so check it every 10 year or so.
Select to expand quoteVCRWoody said..
Santa Cruz Foils
Watch for 1:20
Has potential
The leash stick on loop was only $11.00. My shop wanted to sell me kite line to attach foil to board. I just used extra down haul line that I had. Works great and I don't notice any drag from the thicker line.
I'll bet your shop was Windance, and your stick-on leash loop is the NSI. I like those. When I was at the shop last fall they were out of those loops, so I went with the zip-tie bases and a couple feet of kite line.
Nice thing about the coated kite line (not the open braided stuff) is that you can tie and untie them many times without them getting frayed.
Select to expand quoteVCRWoody said..
Santa Cruz Foils
Watch for 1:20
Any Body try these yet? I just reached out to the young inventor to get both systems to try.
Select to expand quoteGwarn said..
Unfortunately a harbor porpoise they just pop up as you can see.
I have managed to hit a Dolphin among many other things. The water is cloudy where I sail and dolphins are prolific. Now, when I see fins I make a big course change or gybe. The can't hear us coming!
I'd actually like a singing foil if it could warn away marine mammals, we get a lot of california sea lions and they live up to the name!
