help! Uphauling foil board

I don't have an answer for you, but I understand your disappointment having purchased a 150L board only to have it sink on up haul

Thanks for sharing this as it may save others starting out the same

Best of luck, I am sure the SS guns will tell you what to do

I'm exactly your size and although I didn't much like the 150 for other reasons, uphauling was not an issue. The volume is more than adequate. I apologize if the following is overly simple but it works for me and in fact will work if you're uphauling a true sinker.

It's slightly easier if the mast is to leeward and the clew is facing the nose of the board but it'll work even with the mast to windward. In ideal position - mast to leeward and clew forward, put your front foot just aft of the mastfoot and take a wide stance so your back foot is between the straps - both feet on the centerline. Now SWEEP the mast aft as you pull up - don't just try to haul the thing straight out of the water. If the mast is to leeward and the clew aft, your front foot can go just ahead of the mastfoot.

The worst possible situation is when you fall straight back and the mast is to windward of the board but even then you do pretty much the same thing only slower. Sweep the rig towards where the mast is lying but don't even try to get it all the way out of the water, just partway. The board will jibe itself if you hold this position and now you can uphaul normally.

Keys are - feet on the centerline/feet balanced around the middle of the board (rather than around the mast as they would be with an old-school windsurfer)/sweep rather than pull.

I didn't like the 150 because I tended to stuff the nose on touchdown but that's when I was still really shaky with level flight - I think I'd like it ok now. It certainly flies very early and I bet with a 99 it would be amazing. Stick with it - you're on a fine setup!

Hi Registedname

I'm a bit surprised that it should be difficult to uphaul on the 150L.

The nose is defiantly a bit shorter than modern windsurfing boards / and a lot shorter than 'old school boards' ,and it might take a few goes to get used to.

You would still uphaul with a foot on each side of the mast base, but have the foot in front of the base really close to the mast foot and kind of swing your hips a bit back, to get more weight behind the mast foot (where there is more volume from the board under you)

But I'm more surprised that you would 'sink' the tail, as there is a lot of volume there and a good amount of width.

Have you been getting up onto the foil yet, or had a few flights?

If you don't mind I'm asking. What gear (boards) did you use 10 years ago?
I guess the above make sense if you had quite a long board, with lots of volume. But I'm just guessing.

I hope you will progress and get used to it more over time, so you can enjoy the flying and eventually have no hassle with up hauling

Cheers
Jesper

The Levitator is a lot shorter than any windsurf board now, and windsurf boards 10 years ago were a foot longer still. So you don't have anywhere near the front-to-back stability you used to have. The foil at the back does not help the issue, since it can pull the tail down. I have no problem uphauling my 117 l slalom board when foiling, but I hated uphauling the Wizard 125 (which is still longer than the Levitator) when I tried it.

But the good news is that you should be able to adapt quickly. With the shorter board, your feet need to be closer together. You can try placing your front foot right in front of the mast, but if the nose sinks, put it behind the mast instead. That may feel a bit awkward at first, but you'll probably get used to it.

The weight of the foil is not really so much an issue in the water; the front wing should actually float, at least in salt water. But once the tail starts going down, it wants to keep going, especially if the sail is also pushing backwards while you uphaul. The same thing can happen when the nose goes down. You can compensate for that by shifting your weight between your feet, and reduce the tendency by keeping your feet closer together.

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foilbrainz said..
Wizard 125 here, one foot to the side of mastfoot, one by front straps. Try letting the board head into wind a little putting you over the buoyancy a bit more. Just a bit more practice I guess.

1+ off set your feet a little, more important on the wizard 125 and 105 than the levi 150.

You bought a great set of kit and I think you will be fine after some practice.

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RegistedName said..
Hi,
used to windsurf 10 years ago and now getting back into it via windfoil. Nowhere near me to try kit, so after tons of research, youtube etc decided on,

slingshot levitator 150 (6"6 / 33 inch)
windfoil V3, with infinity 99 wing
rig used in this example -> 5.7 sail
My weight : 97kg/215Lb
My height: 5"11

Ignore waterstarts for this example. I want to be able to uphaul foil board.

With windsurfing i would put 1 foot either side of mast whilst facing mast and that would give good balance. with foil board the mast is so much further forward. where do you stand? I expected this kit to be stable and floaty, but submerged easily under my weight and the weight of the foil seemed to cause back of board to sink quickly. This is not stable at all and I'm struggling to find balance point. its worse when i do find balance, but once uphaul starts it can quickly tip to back of board and sink. Feel like I should have gone with levitator 160. I'll persevere and sure it'll click, but any tips welcome please. Thanks

I'm on a Levitator 160 and weigh slightly more than you. I uphaul anything from an 8.0 Ezzy Cheetah down to a 3.8 Sailworks Revolution. I find i have my front foot just ahead of the mast until the sail is getting close to being upright, then i have move my front foot behind mast by a bit (maybe 4 to 6"). I don't think you made a mistake in board selection. I've uphauled my 6.0 Flyer in 6 foot waves on Lake Michigan without too much trouble.

My tips would be. Take a wide stance so you can better spread the weight across the board. Secondly bend the knees but keep your back upright. You want to bring you centre of gravity as low as possible. Slowly pull the sail out to avoid loading up with too much wind which would push front of the board underwater. The board will most likely start turning into the wind during this face which will make getting the sail out easier. Once the sail cleared the water you need to move quickly to get both hands onto the boom.

In regards to where to place your feet. On the Slingshot Wizard I found you really need to have the front foot behind the mast. Not sure about the Levitator. Given it has about 40 liters of excess float for you it might be possible to keep your front foot just in front of the mast or in a 45 degree angle right next to it. I'm 115 and can uphaul the Slingshot Wizard 125 by standing behind the mast base. The Severne Aline 125 has a bit more nose so I can generally have the front foot right just in front of the mast base. Either way though once the sail has cleared the water I need to quickly grab the boom, get some wind in the sail and step well behind the mast to prevent the nose from sinking.

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RegistedName said..
Thanks for replies, really useful. Will try suggestions and I'm sure once up reliably will be ok. Back in day started on Starboard GO and then progressed to carve 141. Used to beach start / waterstart mainly.

I was around 80kg then and probably a lot fitter, although not too bad now. Just my center of gravity has changed :)

I was just surprised at how unsteady it felt and only first session. Just wanted to check here that I wasn't missing something obvious. Not ventured out too far yet until I get this down, as don't fancy being stuck out battling to uphaul. Will just practice more. Hopefully next time I report back I will have good news. Just need practice more likely.

Just the whole change that one has to get back and do up-hauling to start is like a big drawback and like huge inconvenience versus my own earlier young days on the windsurfer/sinkers, where I didn't even carry an up-haul line since 1985 or so!
Also for 'old and not recent in the game' kind of riders like myself, the huge change in sail/board dynamics and center of gravity pull from the sail etc have changed dramatically on the balance of things, where one has to stand etc...

And then you also mention yourself potentially the most important difference: We are older and wiser!
...
But also a bit slower in reactions, less fit, less balance, and..... the dead weight has gone up!

Our bodies are near water in weight/volume, so just using 1 kilo body weight versus 1 liter of floating you get from 1 liter board volume is still a good measure to understand the properties. So tried to map all the stats out for you in data table here below.

Also note as other posters highlight, that the foil boards are indeed even wider and still even thicker and give more stability/floating support versus older type windsurf boards. But unfortunately our personal body stats may cause that we do not feel it that way.
Try and see in the benchmark here below. Your old starboard with just 141 liters of flotation gave you proportionally more flotation with your 80 kg back then, versus what your larger 150 liter Levitator now gives your 97 kg body today...So time to get back in top fit shape (which also helps on reaction time and balance) and get out there to enjoy the fun!

Thanks so much for all the replies. Wasn't able to get out on water again until this week end. I noted all your comments and it was actually pretty easy. No longer an issue for me. Things specifically I did,

- with 99 wing, changed from position B to C with mast in position shown above
- before getting on board I had it so sail was downwind of board with clew to rear of board. (Now it doesn't matter so much)
- get on board, front foot just ahead of mast, rear foot between straps. offset feet. now my front foot is sometimes just behind mast.
- raise sail slowly (look up!) sweeping. now i raise it quicker.
- carry on as if tacking, if needed.

much appreciated

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Cyber said..

RegistedName said..
Thanks so much for all the replies. Wasn't able to get out on water again until this week end. I noted all your comments and it was actually pretty easy. No longer an issue for me. Things specifically I did,

- with 99 wing, changed from position B to C with mast in position shown above
- before getting on board I had it so sail was downwind of board with clew to rear of board. (Now it doesn't matter so much)
- get on board, front foot just ahead of mast, rear foot between straps. offset feet. now my front foot is sometimes just behind mast.
- raise sail slowly (look up!) sweeping. now i raise it quicker.
- carry on as if tacking, if needed.

much appreciated

I am on the Levitator 150, and very frequently finding the board nose going into the water when uphauling and trying to get going again. I have one foot just ahead of the mast base, as find it challenging to uphaul if having both feet behind the mast base on the board. Maybe i should compromise a bit the sailing balance and simply move the mast base further backwards, as its like i am frequently not able to put enough pressure on backfoot to stop the nosediving into the water? Right now i have the mast base 3/4 forward in the track, with a 6m2 sail.
70kg sailor weight.

I understand now very well why we see so few windfoil videos where the uphaul start struggle is included.
Its not pretty...

Hi Cyber, I'm 5kgs lighter then you(65kgs). I often use my wizard 105L with a 6.0 twin cam sail(non-Ocean). I usually stand with both feet behind the mast base once I got used to it it wasn't so bad. As the nose is short and sinky. At your weight it should be very doable to uphaul on the 150 unless you foil a lot in the ocean. Try to uphaul with one hand as you can put more pressure on the back foot. Regarding the mast base I wouldn't adjust it based on ease of uphualing.

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Cyber said..

CAN17 said..

Cyber said..

RegistedName said..
Thanks so much for all the replies. Wasn't able to get out on water again until this week end. I noted all your comments and it was actually pretty easy. No longer an issue for me. Things specifically I did,

- with 99 wing, changed from position B to C with mast in position shown above
- before getting on board I had it so sail was downwind of board with clew to rear of board. (Now it doesn't matter so much)
- get on board, front foot just ahead of mast, rear foot between straps. offset feet. now my front foot is sometimes just behind mast.
- raise sail slowly (look up!) sweeping. now i raise it quicker.
- carry on as if tacking, if needed.

much appreciated

I am on the Levitator 150, and very frequently finding the board nose going into the water when uphauling and trying to get going again. I have one foot just ahead of the mast base, as find it challenging to uphaul if having both feet behind the mast base on the board. Maybe i should compromise a bit the sailing balance and simply move the mast base further backwards, as its like i am frequently not able to put enough pressure on backfoot to stop the nosediving into the water? Right now i have the mast base 3/4 forward in the track, with a 6m2 sail.
70kg sailor weight.

I understand now very well why we see so few windfoil videos where the uphaul start struggle is included.
Its not pretty...

Hi Cyber, I'm 5kgs lighter then you(65kgs). I often use my wizard 105L with a 6.0 twin cam sail(non-Ocean). I usually stand with both feet behind the mast base once I got used to it it wasn't so bad. As the nose is short and sinky. At your weight it should be very doable to uphaul on the 150 unless you foil a lot in the ocean. Try to uphaul with one had as you can put more pressure on the back foot. Regarding the mast base I wouldn't adjust it based on ease of uphualing.

Thank you CAN17,
Yes i just have to keep working on that uphauling to get used to it!
I haven't done any uphauling since 1985 or so, when I bought my first fun board and then started solely starting by beachstarts and waterstarts. Did only wave board sinkers less than 82 liters since 1987, so didnt even have an uphaul rope on those. Quite impressed by you guys able to uphaul on the small Wizard boards!

Definitely need to get more practice on that myself.
Also surprised why actually the manufacturers have not added more scoop (& rocker) to the windfoil boards, as especially more scoop at the front of the board would help to keep it up at the starting point.
But its maybe just a beginner problem for windfoil newbies like myself.

Yeah I'm the total opposite, never water start so have had lots of practice uphualing
On the wizards and most foilboards the volume is in the tail(footstraps) so it needs quite a bit of back foot when uphualing. But like anything it becomes easier with practice. I find it gets more challenging in larger waves that's when you realize how much easier flat water is!

The most common mistake is to buy small boards. I'm sure this is bleed over from the windsurfers, but the best foil board I've owned are the larger, door shaped boards. I'm on a SB foil 177 and can do so much more than my Slingshot counter parts struggling with the same issue (sinking). You need much more wind speed to make the thing fly, whereas larger boards plane quickly and lift earlier.

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segler said..
On any board you figure out where the center of your weight is on the board, and stand there. In the old days you could usually straddle the mast base. Nowadays with short and fat and wide boards you usually have to place your feet further aft of the mast base.

Equalize your center of weight with the board's center of float. Practice in shallow water first.

I totally get it segler!
Its just when standing so much aft, then you essentially will have to uphaul the sail with just one hand alone. And i may simply just not have the raw power to do that, so will typically need a few grasps on the uphaul rope, right hand, left hand, right hand, to get the sail out of the water and up in ready state, where i in principle could start to sheet in and get going again...

Its simply that the balance of your rig is not at same place on the board, where you stand in the boards center of float. But I will probably have to master uphauling the rig while standing with both feet aft of the mast base...

I agree with azymuth on the bigger is not better, once you go small you won't go back. My goto board was the w105 then I started to ride this little gem at 4'9" x 29" 5" thick And can slog it and have only rode the 105 twice in the last 40 sessions. Now I building a smaller on at 4'2" x 29. I know a lot of you don't have the conditions that I have here in the SF bay area so these type boards don't make sense.


this is the 4' 9"^^^^^^^




The next mini at 4'2" ^^^^^^^^^^

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azymuth said..
Changing from my W105L to FS87L to T70L - each drop results in a more skittish, hyperactive, "direct to foil", fun feeling, even though the Tuttle box-footstraps-mast base setup is identical on each board.

"More skittish, hyperactive" really does not sound like fun to me.

I don't doubt that small boards can be a lot of fun for expert foilers that have reliable wind, like in Western Australia or the SF area. But the vast majority of foilers are not experts, and don't have reliable wind. I live on one of the windiest spots on the US East Coast, but the days where the wind does not suddenly take a half hour break are rare. Yesterday was a perfect example. Despite a solid forecast predicting a slight increase, the wind dropped below 10 knots for 45 min. I was darn glad to be on a 117 l board that was easy to slog.

We've seen the trend to smaller and smaller boards in windsurfing, and what it did to the sport. Radical "sinkers" were the absolute must for many years, and everyone would spend tons of time on the beach, bitching and moaning because they could not plane on their 4.x sails and 80 l boards. Fortunately, that's mostly over now, and there's lots of guys and gals on the water with 7.x or larger sails when the conditions require big gear (which is most of the time).

The OP asked for tips on how to uphaul on a 150 l board. The Levitator 150 will require the suggested technique adjustments. A larger board like the SB 177, or a longer board with the same volume, would make getting started easier. What happens after that depends a lot on local conditions, number of sessions, and learning speed. In predominantly light winds and with a limited amount of "weekend warrior" sessions, a larger board may remain the better option for quite a long time.