Carve gybe beginner questions

Hello

Before I post this, I have read tons and tons of articles and videos in the internet.
I am now starting to learn carve gybe. I have a few specific questions I want to ask, they should be simple to answer. I am still on the inital stage of the carve gybe. I am on a floaty board now, can blast comfortably in both straps. I can do non-planing gybes comfortably

1. When bearing away to broad reach from beam reach, do you unhook? Will the harness line stops you from bearing away to broad reach? I find myself the hook is bothering me to point further down the wind.

2. When bearing away to broad reach from beam reach, are your eyes located in the same horizontal position as the boom? I just want to know how extreme I have to bear away

3. When bearing away to broad reach from beam reach, how bend is your rear knee? almost 90 degrees?

4. During the carve process, the front hand extends and back hand sheets in. Will the front hand experience a very strong pull from the sail? and when I carve more, will I experience less pulling force from the wind? I want someone to point me out the pulling force for both hands in related to the carving process

Thanks

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Trousers said..

1. When bearing away to broad reach from beam reach, do you unhook? Will the harness line stops you from bearing away to broad reach? I find myself the hook is bothering me to point further down the wind.

I will often unhook before I go downwind in preparation, but most dont. There's no rule, except get the board travelling broad without upsetting the trim too much. This last point is the key factor to keeping the entry clean and fast.

2. When bearing away to broad reach from beam reach, are your eyes located in the same horizontal position as the boom? I just want to know how extreme I have to bear away

Going broad reduces your chances of catching the nose in the start of the turn by having a gentler initial angle of attack (especially in relation to chop). I think it's Mark Australia who says think of your entry and exit as the ends of a 'K'. So that suggests ideally you go in about 135 degrees of the wind.

3. When bearing away to broad reach from beam reach, how bend is your rear knee? almost 90 degrees?

Still bearing away? I don't know my knee is that bent at all entering into a gybe. In the carve however, I'm sinking very low.

4. During the carve process, the front hand extends and back hand sheets in. Will the front hand experience a very strong pull from the sail? and when I carve more, will I experience less pulling force from the wind? I want someone to point me out the pulling force for both hands in related to the carving process

The front hand? Nope. The point of what you're describing is depowering the sail. Angled into the turn, the sail spills most of the wind. It goes weightless. Watch some pro videos and you'll see people take the front hand entirely off to pump the air exuberant with the sheer joy of a smooth gybe (which tells you the back hand ain't carrying much either!).

When you oversheet with your rear hand, sure you'll have resistance, but allow it to pull you in to the inside of the turn. Your hips should be well inside of the centreline of the board. Gybe are about commitment. Tilt the sail in (and slightly forward of perpendicualr to the board to keep trim) and follow it in with your body and you'll be surprised how much more stable you feel in the carve.

It seems a lot, like a golf swing, so much happens in the blink of an eye. But you're already thinking about it, breaking it down, so you're definjitely onthe right track. Keep working your entry, and then progress to refining the flip, and you'll be the one fist pumping the air as well.

Have to keep that one in mind as I have sometimes caught a rail entering a gybe in chop with the 95 rocket.. Not much fun.. Lost a tooth once..

Gybes are difficult, especially if you want to come out the other side still planning. If you do get one, you will remember it for a long time. Hopefully you will remember what you did so that you can repeat the same again. Practice makes perfect.

(1). I would unhook. When you are on a bread reach, you are already in maximum speed. If you remained hooked in, and if you spin out, then you are in for a nasty fall. For me, Once I am ready to gybe, I actually pump the sail a few time to get even more speed. Why? Because you want go faster than the true wind, which is going to be behind you soon. As you start the gybe, your board will slow down because you no longer have the sail power, and the turn also wash off some speed. The pumping gives you that little bit more time and speed so that you don't have the full force of the true wind slams into your sail.

(2). There was a time when the lean-down slalom gybes were all the rage. No, you don't need to be that extreme, but you want to lean your sail more towards the inside of the turn as well as a bit more forward to the front of the board. Think of turning on a bicycle. You want your weight inside of the turn.

(3). Knee bend is a totally reflex issue. On choppy water, you need to bend your knees to absorb the bounce. The outside leg should be almost straight, while your inside leg will have to bend because that is how you distribute your weight to initiate the turn. If you bend your inside leg, obviously your weight will bias to the inside rail. Such a posture will mean you will fall over "if" you are not turning. But you won't because the centrifugal force will balance you out. That is the beauty of a gybe. That is some physics involved.

(4). Please refer to #1 about pumping the sail. If you have plenty of speed, the sail will now almost become weightless as the true wind is slower than you board speed. So the "strong pull" you worry about will no longer be an issue. I do want to remind you though that it is best to
* bring your fore-hand closer to the harness
* move your back-hand further towards the clew end
As you sheet in hard, it will force the sail more towards the front of the board, as well as making it lean towards inside of the turn. You must
* Keep you fore-hand very straight, almost like pushing the boom away from you.

I would suggest you do it in stages. Think of a gybe in
* Broad reach
* Pumping for more speed
* Initiate the gybe by foot movements as well as weight distribution. Of course, the straight fore-arm and hard sheet-in. Push the sail forward and inside the turn
* Allow the board to gybe until you are ready to flip the sail
* Flip the sail.
Now that is the hard bit...Foot change. Panic stricken sailor will quickly pull the old front-foot and go to the back-end fo the board. Please don't. As soon as you put weight on the tail, the board will sink and come off the plane. I would keep sailing on the "wrong" foot even after the sail flip. You can actually sail awy on the wrong foot.

Once you are comfortable on your new tack, and the sail is now powered up, you then pull out the old front foot and slot in the new front foot. You can hook in if you are not over power. You now have plenty of time to find the back strap.

Gybes are much about courage. You will be "zero" for a long time until, with enough falls and bruised egos, you will become a "hero". I suggest you wear a thick long john wet suit for protection.

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benyip said..
Hello

Before I post this, I have read tons and tons of articles and videos in the internet.
I am now starting to learn carve gybe. I have a few specific questions I want to ask, they should be simple to answer. I am still on the inital stage of the carve gybe. I am on a floaty board now, can blast comfortably in both straps. I can do non-planing gybes comfortably

1. When bearing away to broad reach from beam reach, do you unhook? Will the harness line stops you from bearing away to broad reach? I find myself the hook is bothering me to point further down the wind.

2. When bearing away to broad reach from beam reach, are your eyes located in the same horizontal position as the boom? I just want to know how extreme I have to bear away

3. When bearing away to broad reach from beam reach, how bend is your rear knee? almost 90 degrees?

4. During the carve process, the front hand extends and back hand sheets in. Will the front hand experience a very strong pull from the sail? and when I carve more, will I experience less pulling force from the wind? I want someone to point me out the pulling force for both hands in related to the carving process

Thanks

HA, your gunna get heaps of poor advice.....heres some more

Firstly, stop thinking so much, nobody cares how bent ones knee is, especially when your starting out, perhaps over the years, your development will be at a place were your mastering a lot of subtle skills throughout the turn, at this stage, just focus on the main three, the entry, flip, exit

the entry, carving in,
A lot of beginners get caught up on the word carve, ha, not yet for you, more of a gentle turn in, as you wont have great board speed, and will have zero ability to creat drive with sail yet

Sailing cross wind, unhook, build up some board speed by turning off the wind, gently, don't worry about a big, hard carve yet
you want to create extra board speed, and over sheet, killing sail

Your first gypes are more a resultant of board speed, and basic trim throughout, as opposed to an example of sail control yet

You've turned off the wind, creating more board speed, oversheeted sail, killed it, now were nearly dead down wind

Flip...side,, most beginners flip way way too late into the turn,
you wanna be flipping before dead downwind

Your first flips, sail dead, is just about starting to develop timing and continuity between board turning and rig flipping
since you've oversheeted it, and will probably flip too late, your gunna have apparent wind pushing against the flip,

A lot of people say stupid things like, you need to push the rig around
only if your still a novice, creating drag with poor timing

To help get the flip right, remember to flip before board is downwind

The exit.....stage left..........

a lot of sailors struggle here, pulled off balance, hence, they develop a gype that carves in, flips late, regathers pointing back upwind off the plain, basically stopped, this helps balance as now they have a force to lean against

your not ready to regather in optimal position yet, but if you can do what I said above, then simple need to regather the flip a lot earlier than the board already pointing back cross to upwind

crosswindish, unhook, gently turn off wind, creating more board speed, engage turn with dead sail, plan on doing a big arc, creating time to change feet, flip, regather with knees bend, bum out, basic over balancing, get ready to regather a pull forward, keep turning into the wind till your comfortable with the completed rig flip, sail off, grovelling, but plainning, repeat a billion times and develop a million more subtle, mostly innate skills

Good luck, Gyping hard, developing them over time is a constant part of windsurfing, one of the most satisfying complex parts of the game

Too start out, work on creating more speed into the turn, like said above, a few pumps etc., nice gusty little bit on flatter water will help

^^^^ Possibly?

Doing regular 25.5kt plus alphas now,

My gypes are no longer done the way I described above,

For me, the gype is constantly a work of improvement,

I think your initial planning gypes are a result of reducing drag, and basic board trim, nothing special, just build from there

Good luck

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ikw777 said..
And a good board helps. If your trying to learn gybes on a slalomy board you wont get anywhere. A nice forgiving fsw or maybe even a freeride will help you.

For me, changing from a free ride to a slalom board made all the difference with gybing. That was my first major breakthrough. That nice sharp rail made it so much easier for me...

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sboardcrazy said..
I found I'd do a postmortem after every failed attempt and then work on what I thought caused the crash..
Also concentrate on one thing at a time until you get it sorted.. I find with me its often I'm not looking far enough into the exit or flipping at the wrong time..

lye awake for hours after you hit the pillow, don't worry about sleep (it's unimportant!) and keep going over that gybe you remember the most... whether it worked or not. Think about what went wrong or what you did right. If you're still awake at 2am, then I suggest you get out of bed, boot up the laptop and Youtube "carve gybing". Watch till you're eyes are red and you can't think straight anymore. You'll naturally fall asleep in no time, but all those videos you watched will subconsciously engrain themselves in your brain and next time you're on the water there'll be progress without thought.

I either end up stalled pointing upwind, or else when I try to flip earlier, I get pulled in forwards by the sail. I feel like there is a micro-second of opportunity between the two that I can't find, but it can't be like that, I must be doing something wrong. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Harrow.

Harrow,
Timing the flip is one of the keys to a good gybe.
Try following the wind with the sail as you go round, when it's pointing away from you flip it.
In fact if you do it right, you can take both hands off the sail as you throw it around and catch on the new tack.

Sue,
My head's got no idea what my body's doing. I have to let my body do it and watch from the sidelines to see what's happening, as soon as I start to think about it I fall off. I've been trying to back loop since last century, and still can't make out how I end up where I do, it all happens too fast now.

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ikw777 said..

Windxtasy said...

ikw777 said..
And a good board helps. If your trying to learn gybes on a slalomy board you wont get anywhere. A nice forgiving fsw or maybe even a freeride will help you.

For me, changing from a free ride to a slalom board made all the difference with gybing. That was my first major breakthrough. That nice sharp rail made it so much easier for me...

Flatwater?

relatively. River, estuary. Not ocean.

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Harrow said..
I either end up stalled pointing upwind, or else when I try to flip earlier, I get pulled in forwards by the sail. I feel like there is a micro-second of opportunity between the two that I can't find, but it can't be like that, I must be doing something wrong. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Harrow.

yes. You're doing something wrong.

Sorry about that Harrow. Just couldn't resist!

Here is a drill to try:

Forget about finishing the gybe! Carve the board in, let go of the rig, hold it by the mast and don't try to get it back on the other tack. Just focus your efforts on keeping the board carving smooth for the last half of the turn until you are going the other way. It's perfectly OK to fall in then. It is part of the exercise!

Repeat and focus on being freely balanced on top of the board without relying on the rig for support at all.

Repeat and focus on [b]reducing[/b] the arc of the carve after you let go of the rig.

Repeat as many times as you can.

Only then, when you have imprinted the balanced, smooth, controlled carve on your body, do you start to think about taking hold of the sail again on the new tack and switching your feet.

I would do the feet switching repeatedly first, and when you have smoothed that out I think you will find that the rig will actually just fall back into your hands anyhow!

The idea behind this suggestion is to try to break down the rather complex skill into a number of simpler component parts. The principle works well for many people, i'm just not sure those particular steps will work as well as I envisage. It would be good if you try it and report your findings!

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paddymac said..


What I like about this shot is Isaac has very deeply bent knees yet his core is still largely over the centreline. He also has good downward pressure on the boom. His left foot has good pressure upwards. Just a point in time but I hope it illustrates some key features to a good gybe.

great photo Patrick! That is full commitment.

The one legged man gybe.

//

When you combine this thread with the various instructional videos, and lots of practice/falling in......

it just doesn't get any better for one of the most technical manouveurs in windsurfing.

thanks guys

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MvB said..
Hi guys. Some great comments here for me who Is also exactly at this stage.

I sometimes think there are a lot of us at this stage, and some of us have been there for a rather long time. I've always thought there are two types of sailboarders, those who can gybe well, and those who can't. It really feels like the single most defining skill you can have.

I'm staying dry on more gybes than I'm getting wet these days, but just always suddenly going upwind at the last moment. Thanks for the tips guys, I'll give them a go, and think that I also need to stop trying to stay dry.