Search for a Location
  Clear Recents
Metro
South West
Central West
North West
  Surf Cameras
  Safety Bay Camera
Metro
North
Mid North
Illawarra
South Coast
Metro
West Coast
East Coast
Brisbane
Far North
Central Coast
Sunshine Coast
Gold Coast
Hobart
West Coast
North Coast
East Coast
Recent
Western Australia
New South Wales
Victoria
South Australia
Queensland
Northern Territory
Tasmania
  My Favourites
  Reverse Arrows
General
Gps & Speed Sailing
Wave Sailing
Foiling
Gear Reviews
Lost & Found
Windsurfing WA
Windsurfing NSW
Windsurfing QLD
Windsurfing Victoria
Windsurfing SA
Windsurfing Tasmania
General
Gear Reviews
Foiling
Newbies / Tips & Tricks
Lost & Found
Western Australia
New South Wales
Queensland
Victoria
South Australia
Tasmania
General
Foiling
Board Talk & Reviews
Wing Foiling
All
Windsurfing
Kitesurfing
Surfing
Longboarding
Stand Up Paddle
Wing Foiling
Sailing
  Active Topics
  Subscribed Topics
  Rules & Guidelines
Login
Lost My Details!
Join! (Its Free)
  Search for a Location
  Clear Recents
Metro
South West
Central West
North West
Surf Cameras
Safety Bay Camera
Metro
North
Mid North
Illawarra
South Coast
Metro
West Coast
East Coast
Brisbane
Far North
Central Coast
Sunshine Coast
Gold Coast
Hobart
West Coast
North Coast
East Coast
Recent
Western Australia
New South Wales
Victoria
South Australia
Queensland
Northern Territory
Tasmania
  My Favourites
  Reverse Arrows
All
Windsurfing
Kitesurfing
Surfing
Longboarding
Stand Up Paddle
Wing Foiling
Sailing
Active Topics
Subscribed Topics
Forum Rules
Login
Lost My Details!
Join! (Its Free)

Forums > Windsurfing General

How to determine the volume of my board

Reply
Created by Duncanlax > 9 months ago, 16 Jan 2015
Duncanlax
VIC, 1 posts
16 Jan 2015 7:39AM
Thumbs Up

I tend to agree with a post by Stuthepirate (Posted 20/11/2012) for a general guide to calculate the volume of a board. He suggested length x width x height then remove 30% however I would remove 40%. I tested his theory on a couple of my boards where I new the volume of each and removing 40% seemed to be a little more accurate. Either way it's really just a guide and the only way to accurately measure capacity is displacement, submerge the board in water and measure how much the water rises.

Calculation: length x height x width divide by 1000 x .6 (for 40%) = approx. volume
Calculation: length x height x width divide by 1000 x .7 (for 30%) = approx. volume

NotWal
QLD, 7428 posts
16 Jan 2015 4:04PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Duncanlax said..
I tend to agree with a post by Stuthepirate (Posted 20/11/2012) for a general guide to calculate the volume of a board. He suggested length x width x height then remove 30% however I would remove 40%. I tested his theory on a couple of my boards where I new the volume of each and removing 40% seemed to be a little more accurate. Either way it's really just a guide and the only way to accurately measure capacity is displacement, submerge the board in water and measure how much the water rises.

Calculation: length x height x width divide by 1000 x .6 (for 40%) = approx. volume
Calculation: length x height x width divide by 1000 x .7 (for 30%) = approx. volume



I worked out a more or less convenient way to do a displacement measurement years ago but I've never done it.
You need a swimming pool, a hose, a big green garbage bin and a set of scales, and probably a willing helper.

1) Remove the footstraps if you are concerned with precision.
2) Float the board upside down in a pool.
3) Put the bin on the board and fill it with water from the hose until it just sinks.
4) Mark the level of the water on the bin and then tip it in the pool.
5) Put the bin on the scales and refill it to the mark.
6) The weight in kg = the volume of the board in litres.

Mark _australia
WA, 22870 posts
16 Jan 2015 8:21PM
Thumbs Up

^^^ thanks, now my pool stinks and has floaties in it



pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
17 Jan 2015 12:44AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
NotWal said..
Duncanlax said..
I tend to agree with a post by Stuthepirate (Posted 20/11/2012) for a general guide to calculate the volume of a board. He suggested length x width x height then remove 30% however I would remove 40%. I tested his theory on a couple of my boards where I new the volume of each and removing 40% seemed to be a little more accurate. Either way it's really just a guide and the only way to accurately measure capacity is displacement, submerge the board in water and measure how much the water rises.

Calculation: length x height x width divide by 1000 x .6 (for 40%) = approx. volume
Calculation: length x height x width divide by 1000 x .7 (for 30%) = approx. volume



I worked out a more or less convenient way to do a displacement measurement years ago but I've never done it.
You need a swimming pool, a hose, a big green garbage bin and a set of scales, and probably a willing helper.

1) Remove the footstraps if you are concerned with precision.
2) Float the board upside down in a pool.
3) Put the bin on the board and fill it with water from the hose until it just sinks.
4) Mark the level of the water on the bin and then tip it in the pool.
5) Put the bin on the scales and refill it to the mark.
6) The weight in kg = the volume of the board in litres.


That sounds like it would work, but I think you would also need to weigh the board in kg, and add that to the weight of water and the bucket.
So if the bucket of water weighed 104 kg and the board weighed 7 kg, the total volume would be 111 kg.

There would be a discrepancy if the pool was salt water because salt water is heavier than 1 kg/ltr, thus estimated volume would be a few percent lower than the estimate.




Mark _australia
WA, 22870 posts
17 Jan 2015 12:48AM
Thumbs Up

^^^ not the first bit cos it displaces it's own volume whether it is made of steel or foam or wood? so the board's weight is irrelevant.............?

Or did i get that bit of yr10 wrong

gregob
NSW, 264 posts
17 Jan 2015 10:32AM
Thumbs Up

I agree, Technically Volume is Volume regardless of how heavy board is. But, in windsurfing the number of litres a board is supposed to represent how floaty the board is. So if a board is 120 Lts and weighs 10Kg wouldn't it float someone 90Kg the same as a 120Lt board that is 5KG floats a 95Kg bloke?

gavnwend
WA, 1369 posts
17 Jan 2015 9:13AM
Thumbs Up





l had this problem once both these boards in photo are of similar size but the grey one (left side) is quoted as 123 litres where as the other one (right side) is quoted as 109 litres.when l use these two boards with same rig the same day they both feel sink wise the same.could manufacturers got it wrong.the rrd is European (right) the centurion (robbie radis design) australian.

hoop
1979 posts
17 Jan 2015 9:59AM
Thumbs Up

Volume is volume. It has nothing to do with weight.
We need to get Barn onto this one!

NotWal
QLD, 7428 posts
17 Jan 2015 12:15PM
Thumbs Up

You're right pweedas. You have to include the weight of the board.

Mark _australia
WA, 22870 posts
17 Jan 2015 11:14AM
Thumbs Up

But how do I measure the virtual volume

albers
NSW, 1739 posts
17 Jan 2015 2:21PM
Thumbs Up

The more types of boards you include in the analysis, the more general (with the associated error) that your singular formula will become.

For example, I just looked up the JP Australia website for details of three classes of boards. These were modelled (using multiple linear regression) with very accurate results. However, when you analyse all three groups combined, the results become less accurate. If you extend the modelling to all boards (even within a particular style of board, say, wave, freestyle, slalom) the results will become even more varied (noisy).



Just my 2 cents worth


jusavina
QLD, 1472 posts
17 Jan 2015 2:08PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..
But how do I measure the virtual volume


I was going to ask that...

Shouldn't it be harder to sink a 1m wide thin board than a narrower thicker board with the same volume? or that "virtual volume" is negligible once the board has sank?
(talking about the weight of the water in the bin on top of the board).

stehsegler
WA, 3485 posts
17 Jan 2015 12:14PM
Thumbs Up

Another method is to read the label with the boards specs that the manufacturer printed onto the board.


PhilSWR
NSW, 1104 posts
17 Jan 2015 3:48PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
stehsegler said..
Another method is to read the label with the boards specs that the manufacturer printed onto the board.




Sounds nice and simply in theory... I have an older Starboard S-Type (2006?) that's stamped 93 litres, but apparently (don't quote me as it was something I read) it's actually 99 litres. Either way I don't really care, but pretty confusing / misleading, if you were after a board with a very specific volume.

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
17 Jan 2015 1:18PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
hoop said..
Volume is volume. It has nothing to do with weight.
We need to get Barn onto this one!


The weight of the board has to be included in the calculation.

You can decide if any point in science is valid simply by taking the relevant parameter to the extreme,.. so,..

say the board had a real volume of 111 liters and it weighed 110 kilograms. (yes I know, bad design but this is just to test the principle)

You put your bucket on the board and it sinks with the addition of almost no water., when water plus bucket weighs one kg.

If you neglect the weight of the board, the volume of the board would calculate out to one liter. It is obviously not one liter.

You have to weigh the board, plus the bucket, to get a total weight of 111 kg to give a board volume of 111 liters.








Mark _australia
WA, 22870 posts
17 Jan 2015 1:36PM
Thumbs Up

^^ makes sense

and Justin I was just being silly as I hate the term virtual volume, but yes width contributes to more stability and more uplift when starting to move forward so boards can feel bigger. But no it is not harder to sink the wide board

rwg
1 posts
17 Jan 2015 4:34PM
Thumbs Up

I've always wanted to know just what the volume if my 79 litre board really was. Being a Land Surveyor I thought I'd accurately measure the board with an electronic theodolite. I took "shots" all over the top ,bottom & sides of the board which was held in a frame. I fed the 3D data into a volume calculating software program and guess what ! - the volume it punched out was 79.0 litres .

seanhogan
QLD, 3424 posts
17 Jan 2015 6:52PM
Thumbs Up

I just check the isaf listing.... not that it matters

joe windsurf
1481 posts
17 Jan 2015 9:20PM
Thumbs Up

the easiest foolproof way is probably the Archimedes/Eureka method
get a waterproof crate where board fits in
put in enough water to be able to push board under water
volume before ?
volume after pushing board under water?
delta is your board volume ...
most difficult part?
finding a big enough water proof crate



VOLUME has NOTHING to do with weight
a bucket full of water weighs more than the same bucket full of crap
volume on earth is the same volume in space or on the moon
the weight changes

besides, with freemove and freeformula, isn't width now more important than volume ?? kidding ...

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
18 Jan 2015 12:53AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
joe windsurf said..
the easiest foolproof way is probably the Archimedes/Eureka method
get a waterproof crate where board fits in
put in enough water to be able to push board under water
volume before ?
volume after pushing board under water?
delta is your board volume ...
most difficult part?
finding a big enough water proof crate



VOLUME has NOTHING to do with weight
a bucket full of water weighs more than the same bucket full of crap
volume on earth is the same volume in space or on the moon
the weight changes

besides, with freemove and freeformula, isn't width now more important than volume ?? kidding ...


The method described by Not Wal is perfectly valid, provided that it is done right here on planet earth, where there is a direct correlation between weight and volume of water, being 1 kg of water = 1 liter of water. Not on the moon and not in outer space.
And it's far easier and more accurate than trying to find a waterproof crate and trying to measure the displaced volume.
All you need is a swimming pool, a wheelie bin, a hose and some scales.

As I said, above,
Select to expand quote
You can decide if any point in science is valid simply by taking the relevant parameter to the extreme,..

(in this case the relevant parameter is the weight of the board. Should it be included in the calculation or not.? )

so,.. say the board had a real volume of 111 liters and it weighed 110 kilograms. (yes I know, bad design but this is just to test the principle)
You put your bucket on the board and it sinks with the addition of almost no water., when water plus bucket weighs 1 kg.
If you neglect the weight of the board, the volume of the board would calculate out to one liter. It is obviously not one liter.
You have to weigh the board, plus the bucket, to get a total weight of 111 kg to give a board volume of 111 liters.


Is there an error in this analysis? I don't think so.

Take the other extreme of a super light board.
A new board comes out with a volume of 111 liters and weighs exactly nothing. (It's a new material about to be released any day now)
It will obviously hold a bucket of water, the total weight of the bucket and water being exactly 111 kg, equating to 111 liter board volume. Yes?
Yes.!

Take a mid point.
The same 111 board, after they find out this new material has the strength of wet toilet paper, has had a lot of heavy repairs and so now weighs 50 kg.
All repairs are internal so the volume is still the same.
We put the water bucket on it and add the water.
Will it still support 111 kg of bucket and water?
No.
It's already supporting 50 kg of it's own weight and that 50 kg will exactly come off the weight it can float.
It will support 61 kg of bucket and water, but the volume is still 111 liters, not 61 liters, the 111 liter board volume being the calculated by the addition of the board weight ( 50 kg here on planet earth) plus the weight of bucket and water (61 kg here on planet earth), expressed in liters.

The calculation of board volume must be the addition of the board weight plus the weight of the bucket and water, calculated at 1 liter of volume for every kilogram of combined weight. Yes?
Yes!

CAUTION! This method will not work on Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune or Pluto.
Nor will it work while in transit to any of these popular destinations.
Nor will it work on any of the numerous moons, be they known or unknown.
(It also may not work in Canada. )

joe windsurf
1481 posts
18 Jan 2015 6:46AM
Thumbs Up

actually in Canada
you would have a bucket of ice
pool is ice too
so, air pressure and temperature are factors ??
up the mountain, sea level ,etc ??

btw, with my 160 liter board... no way i am lifting 160 kilos !!!

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
18 Jan 2015 2:48PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
joe windsurf said..

a bucket full of water weighs more than the same bucket full of crap
...


Just on a technical point,.. a bucket of excrement weighs almost the same as a bucket of water.
The proof of this is that when you drop a big steaming darky in the pan, some float and some sink.

Now,.. the ones that float support your hypothesis, but the ones that sink, negate your hypothesis.

So,.. given that sometimes they float and sometimes they sink, that sort of indicates they must on average, be very close to neutral buoyancy, and therefore of a similar weight when measured by the bucketful.

(Although I'm not familiar with the situation in canada. Perhaps next time you drop a few you can give us an update. )

Also,.. air pressure make no difference and can be as low as zero if you like.
Up a mountain makes no difference either, neither does being in a big hole.

I think water temperature makes no difference so long as the water you put in the bucket is the same temperature as the water which the board is floating in.
It's all about a board floating in water displacing the exact same weight of water as the board weighs.
That's not my idea. Archimedes thought of it first.
In any case, experimental error would be much greater than the small difference in density between different temps of water would make, so I wouldn't be too fussed about it.

Oh,.. and you don't have to lift the 160kg of water in the bucket off the board and onto the scales.

NotWal's devilishly cunning plan is to mark the level of the water in the bucket and then just tip it into the pool.

Take the bucket out of the pool (empty of course,,.. the bucket,, not the pool,.. and I'm being very specific here so as not to cause any confusion,.. and then,... now where was I,?.. oh yes,..
measure water level in bucket, empty bucket in pool, remove bucket from pool, put empty bucket on bathroom scales and then,,... refill to the marked level and read bathroom scales.
Your 160 litre bucket and water should read about 146 kg, and your board should weigh about 14kg to give you a grand total of 160kg total weight, which translates to 160 litres.
If it comes out to 140 kg total you were sold the wrong board because that would be a 140 liter board.
If it comes out to 79kg, you probably picked up the wrong board, and it's not even yours.

Also,.. not only but also,.. I was thinking about how the lizard people could do this on the moon, or Pluto,.. given that gravity is so much less there.
I have a feeling that it would still work so long as they don't use the bathroom scales but instead use one of those old railway beam balance measuring scales.
Bathroom scales balance a gravitational force with a spring force and that would definitely give a wrong reading. But, railway balance scales balance a gravitational force with a gravitational force, so whatever the gravity is, the two would balance out. Thus, 160 kg of water and bucket would still weigh in at 160 kg apparent weight, even if gravity was only 10% of earth gravity.

Soooo,.. my impression is that this method would still work because although the weight of the bucket would obviously be much less, the balance weight on the balance beam would also be much less even though it be marked with a 160 kg marking. Therefore, so long as you took notice of what the balance weights were marked, it should still give you the right answer.
The only time this would not work is when there was no gravity at all,.. I think,..

This is frightfully good news to all because I'm sure we're right on the verge of an era when all this will prove very useful, or not,.. as the case may be.
I'm prepared to be proven wrong on this point but so far I can't think why it would be.
Maybe NotWal can think of a reason, since it's his idea. )

hoop
1979 posts
18 Jan 2015 3:42PM
Thumbs Up

For the method of sinking the board and weighing the amount of water used to sink it, yes you need to take the weight of the board into account.
Volume is still just volume though. The weight of the object has nothing to do with volume.

Mark _australia
WA, 22870 posts
18 Jan 2015 3:57PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
pweedas said..

joe windsurf said..

a bucket full of water weighs more than the same bucket full of crap
...



Just on a technical point,.. a bucket of excrement weighs almost the same as a bucket of water.
The proof of this is that when you drop a big steaming darky in the pan, some float and some sink.




Apparently they should all float if you have a healthy diet. I gather fibre = more fart gas = pockets of fart gas in the logs, and it helps them float.

Dunno if that is true but when I had a floater once I was stoked.


king of the point
WA, 1836 posts
18 Jan 2015 4:10PM
Thumbs Up

Interesting chat

1 Volume of your board is critical and something as purchases we all need to know ,this needs to be accurately measured in the same way by all manufactures. SURELY no names

so how does one notices variations between two boards of the same literage

2 The distribution of the volume / this is the most critical ie (the Shape) and weight balance........for overall balance and stability for floating / plodding / planning /speeding / maneuverability.........excluding your / fin size / weight of the rigg

3 I use custom boards , and the volume / shape is refined by/ from making and working with your shaper this often takes a couple of boards to get perfected, but once you got something that you can use with a 5.7 to 4.2 in 1 to 2 ft of 2 to 10 ft in 10knts to 35knots you know the volume and shape is perfect for you as long as you not putting on weight and using the different style of riggs i.e draft wise ........talking cam sails to wave sails.

So how many liters is my new custom that is sitting in the SSD rack for me to collect .........dont know and dont really care ive got a fair idea / because i know its a copy of my last board and it was perfect couple of very very small variations.

But you have got me thinking what is its exact volume ................

I will weigh my self / i know im approx 102 kg and will float it in the pool and just sit and stand on it before i kit it up ........yer

if it just floats or just sinks a bit ill be on the money for the volume

im getting given me self a headache ///// froth forth froth

Ps Some one a couple of post back had some laser thing that measured it up .........where do i find that on my fkn i phone

Jupiter
2156 posts
18 Jan 2015 4:20PM
Thumbs Up

I believe the topic has become more and more convoluted. The original question was how to measure the volume of an object. In this case it is a board.

Lets just forget about the board that the board has odd lumps and bumps, and imagine it is a flat piece of blank with say 100 litres. If the foam is very dense, say like cast iron, it will sink as the weight of the blank will be heavier than the total weight of the water/fluid displaced. However, if the weight of the blank is just the same as the displaced water/fluid, it will just barely float. This is the Archimedes Principle.

Now if you are to hollow out the blank, it will float easily as its weight is now much lower. To put it in a nut-sheel, it is about how much water is displaced, and the net weight of the blank.

Now if you are to stand on the now hollowed out blank that was floating easily before, it may or may not float, depending on how heavy you are.

If you just want to know what is the volume of the board, then it is simply the net volume of "pure" water displaced. However, if you want to know how big a board needs to be to carry certain weight, then obviously, the "combined" weight of the board and the rider need to be accounted for.

Jupiter
2156 posts
18 Jan 2015 4:25PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
joe windsurf said..
the easiest foolproof way is probably the Archimedes/Eureka method
get a waterproof crate where board fits in
put in enough water to be able to push board under water
volume before ?
volume after pushing board under water?
delta is your board volume ...
most difficult part?
finding a big enough water proof crate



VOLUME has NOTHING to do with weight
a bucket full of water weighs more than the same bucket full of crap
volume on earth is the same volume in space or on the moon
the weight changes

besides, with freemove and freeformula, isn't width now more important than volume ?? kidding ...


"volume on earth is the same volume in space or on the moon"

I am curious if the volume will be slightly larger as the air pressure on moon is much lower than on earth? Yes, hair splitting stuff.. Astronauts need pressurized space suits, etc.

Ricardo1709
NSW, 1301 posts
18 Jan 2015 8:23PM
Thumbs Up

What about you mark boxes(rectangles) fully across the board every 100mm down the length of the board and do the length x width x thickness for each box as all boards will have the wide point tapering to varying narrow points depending on the template of the board,I tried this out on my shortboard and came within .03lt from what is stated on the blank.Doing it overall measurements seems to discount template shape of board and how far they carried the thickness through the length of the board.

hoop
1979 posts
18 Jan 2015 5:56PM
Thumbs Up

It seems some people are getting confused between volume and flotation. Forget boards for a little while. You have 2 cubes 1metre x 1metre x 1metre.
They don't have to do anything they're just cubes. 1 is made of polystyrene and 1 is made of lead.
The volume of both is 1000 litres.

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
18 Jan 2015 6:01PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Mark _australia said..
pweedas said..

joe windsurf said..

a bucket full of water weighs more than the same bucket full of crap
...



Just on a technical point,.. a bucket of excrement weighs almost the same as a bucket of water.
The proof of this is that when you drop a big steaming darky in the pan, some float and some sink.




Apparently they should all float if you have a healthy diet. I gather fibre = more fart gas = pockets of fart gas in the logs, and it helps them float.

Dunno if that is true but when I had a floater once I was stoked.



Well that's good news. As it so happens, I just dropped a few and in view of this discussion I took particular note of their buoyancy.
They all floated.
I took that as bad news at the time because it confirmed Joe Windscrubbers hypothesis that a bucket of water does indeed weigh more than a bucket of carp.
But now, in light of what you tell me, I'm really happy about it. Three out of three,.. all floaters. Yippee!
( Yes I know,.. you didn't need to know that really. Perhaps I should have just said,.. I feel really happy about something good that just happened.
Yeah,.. that'll do it. )

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
18 Jan 2015 6:04PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Jupiter said..
joe windsurf said..
the easiest foolproof way is probably the Archimedes/Eureka method
get a waterproof crate where board fits in
put in enough water to be able to push board under water
volume before ?
volume after pushing board under water?
delta is your board volume ...
most difficult part?
finding a big enough water proof crate



VOLUME has NOTHING to do with weight
a bucket full of water weighs more than the same bucket full of crap
volume on earth is the same volume in space or on the moon
the weight changes

besides, with freemove and freeformula, isn't width now more important than volume ?? kidding ...


"volume on earth is the same volume in space or on the moon"

I am curious if the volume will be slightly larger as the air pressure on moon is much lower than on earth? Yes, hair splitting stuff.. Astronauts need pressurized space suits, etc.


Yes, you're right. I didn't consider that.
The filler in the board is mostly gas in the foam, and at very low pressure it would have to expand a teeny bit.
I better add that to the equation as one of the minor variables..



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing General


"How to determine the volume of my board" started by Duncanlax