There seems to be a few HD versions going very cheap (2022 new) over here in Europe - as am looking to do DefiWind next year, and the Fox is well suited, I thought its a chance to pick up a 105L. Is the HD version, apparently tougher but cheaper materials, OK or will I wish I got the red edition ? Im not looking to win, just push myself hard.
i have the red Dyno which is a touch fragile for my general carelessness. appreciate any feedback
Very cheap for a reason?
I tend to buy new and keep boards until they are knackered. My Exocet carbon boards have lasted well, S3 & Cross. I recently retired the S3 after 5 years, it was my most used board. A Fanatic slalom board went soft on the deck after 100 sessions, so I steered clear of slalom boards after that.
The Fox is an odd one, when they first came out they had an interview in the UK mag and we were led to believe they were going to be carbon, but seemed not, mostly glass with carbon reinforcements.
Don't underestimate that 'cheap for a reason' can mean too much stock and room is needed for the incoming seasons products. As someone who has been involved in seasonal industries, businesses can not afford to keep aging stock of any type on the shelves.
Select to expand quoteShifu said..
Is the Fox a quick board for its type? (freeride)
The fox is easy to sail so it goes as quick as a slalom board being ridden by a lazy person or by someone who doesn't have the best technique. It's normally fear that slows mine down.
The differences in the 105L V2 2022 models are :
Red board : carbon, 6,9 kg - light and stiff
White board HD model : 7,58kg fiberglass and wood with reinforcements. Stronger.
I want to get this model on the basis that it goes fast and is comfy in chop. I like that the HD version is tougher but worried there is too much compromise on performance (less stiff / 0,7 kg heavier).
Unsold new HD models are being offered at close to half price. Whats the catch ?
The differences in the 105L V2 2022 models are :
Red board : carbon, 6,9 kg - light and stiff
White board HD model : 7,58kg fiberglass and wood with reinforcements. Stronger.
I want to get this model on the basis that it goes fast and is comfy in chop. I like that the HD version is tougher but worried there is too much compromise on performance (less stiff / 0,7 kg heavier).
ie is the fiberglass version going to lose too much of the sportiness stiffness that is the attraction of this model ?
Unsold new HD models are being offered at close to half original price. Whats the catch ?
Select to expand quotesboardcrazy said..
Wouldn't a heavier board bounce around less in chop?
Indeed - my thought too.
The glass HD versions were only made 1 year. I dont think they sold well. If you want a performance board, get a light stiff one. The Fox has plenty of 'v' for comfort. The 'carbon' boards had a glass hull anyway.
Fanatic made their slalom board in glass for a couple of years, hoping to sell them to people who wanted the performance from the shape, but not the more fragile carbon construction. They didnt sell well, as people interested in slalom shapes wanted light weight. Thats what the importer Nik Baker told me.
I think glass versions are more ding resistant, but comes at a weight penalty. I dropped an extension or screwdriver on a carbon deck and it made a small hole. A glass deck and it would probably have bounced off with no damage.
I had a glass Exocet Cross 106. It felt heavy but performed ok. When I got a replacement I got the carbon 94l. It felt so much better due to stiffness and weight. That was a small freeride I use with 4.5 -6.5m. Mostly flat choppy water and B&J. Just 1 small ding on the rail due to landing on a stone in the shorebreak. I dont think a Fox will be getting the same level of abuse as a Dyno, used more in waves, I guess.
50% off sounds a good price. But if you dont enjoy sailing it as it is heavy it is wasted money.
You guys are worried about .7 kg on a free ride board ??? That's the reason boards are built so light they fall apart.
I understand having to win races in slalom or doing loops on a wave board, but free ride ???
Select to expand quoteImax1 said..
You guys are worried about .7 kg on a free ride board ??? That's the reason boards are built so light they fall apart.
I understand having to win races in slalom or doing loops on a wave board, but free ride ???
Yes, from actual sailing experience. Each to their own though.
None of my carbon Exocet boards have fallen apart. Apart from the one which Cobra didnt build properly and was replaced under warranty. A Fanatic carbon slalom board went soft on the deck prematurely. When Cobra build to the correct spec by the brand, without mucking it up, they can build decent boards. If a brand demands lightness with less material but isnt durable, then thats the brands fault.
As I understand it, its less the weight difference but more the stiffness of carbon that makes a board more sporty - which is kinda what a freerace board is for, right ? Will the fiberglass HD version of a Fox dumb-it down too much ?
A salesman just made an interesting point : in light wind carbon excels, once you are in stronger wind the better control of a little more weight and a little less stiffness gives better control to lesser mortals and you go faster. perhaps the issue is I dont want to accept I am a lesser mortal.
The price difference in a half cost glass board to a full priced carbon version is the price of a new race sail. That will make you go quicker. And you will have a brand new race sail.
And change for an extra fin. And its white, less sunburn. Am talking myself into it nicely.
I wouldn't consider it unless you can try/demo the board. I sail a Fox 95 V1 and use it predominantly in lighter winds (16-20 knots). It's really it's lightness and stiffness that makes it a brilliant board in those conditions. I think the white version could feel like a completely different board because it kinda is.
These are great boards, if you're serious about it, just get the new V3 and you won't regret it.
Agree with much of above but to add more questions - are u buying it for overpowered 10km reaches at Defi? And the overpowered sailing to train for that in the mean time?
If so, i think a half price HD is a wise decision. Cos you will abuse it and its half price! Wood is way better for dings.... a carbon Fox deck is pretty easy to hurt.
But if you think you are seriously racing at Defi.... it is a full bore fast board in carbon and prob not a Fox anyway
Select to expand quoteJasonwave said..
A salesman just made an interesting point : in light wind carbon excels, once you are in stronger wind the better control of a little more weight and a little less stiffness gives better control to lesser mortals and you go faster. perhaps the issue is I dont want to accept I am a lesser mortal.
perhaps the issue is I dont want to accept I am a lesser mortal.
I was forced to accept that years ago..
Yes its for 20kts plus situations, to abuse in learning how big a cambered sail I can hold when it blows and how fast can I go. If Im not crashing it alot in the first 20 sessions then I recon Im not trying hard enough.
I cannot demo.
I am not looking for record GPS recordings, just decent sensations of going fast.
Currently I use a JP Magic Ride 97L which is lovely at medium speeds. The idea of a cheap Fox was to try to move up a gear or 2 on that and enjoy training for a not too serious Defiwind. But if the fiberglass version is a bit of a lorry it doesnt move me up on the JP MR, I might a well just put a faster fin on that perhaps ?
I reckon you're overthinking it. Its the same board but you can drop a knee on the deck without it ending your session.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
I reckon you're overthinking it. Its the same board but you can drop a knee on the deck without it ending your session.
Agree, definitely over thinking it. The design of the Fox is what makes it such a great board to go fast in chop. That design works in carbon or HD construction.
I'm not convinced it in will feel the same board as the lighter version. I owned a JP freeride board in full wood sandwich construction for many years and knew it's characteristics very well.
I've once sailed the same board in a rental centre in both the ES version (similar to Fox HD) and the pro version (carbon). The ES (heavy) version was simply terrible. It was a completely different board, not early planing and disappointing top speed. Not fun at all and not something I would ever sail again. The weight difference was probably 0.8-1 kg but that felt like 10 kg to me.
The pro was ok, it felt a bit stiffer and lighter compared to the wood but not a big difference in the conditions and sail I was using it in. In fact, I think I preferred the full wood as it wasn't as stiff.
Not sure if JP ES can be compared to Severne HD but if that is the case, I'd stay far away from it.
Just get the hd, graphics look better on the hd anyway. If it was sizes above 105 i'd say get the carbon. I've got a v1 105 & I changed it over to tuttle box, all where I cut out & another spot on deck I did repair on was carbon.
There are times I wish it was wood glass, cause you can push them that hard & smack it into bits of chop you'd treat differently on slalom board & the knees remind you of your age.
Top end will be same both constructions just slightly less acceleration in gusts. I reckon the hd be perfect for windy defi. Probably cheaper too with the latest version being quite different.
700g difference is less than if you drank a litre of water before sailing or if you used a winter wetsuit compared to a summer wetsuit.
I'd add that you probably would feel the difference in stiffness and would feel the difference in lightness carrying it up the beach but only slightly.
Unless you are semi professional and super fit and not using the board to its upmost performance then the HD version will suit you fine and will last longer.
Hehe, that's not how I think it works Madge. A heavier rider will always be faster. A heavier board not so much. You'll definitely notice that amount of extra weight in the board, even if you're not a pro.
