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Tips for gybing when over powered?

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Created by Hazzelbanger > 9 months ago, 13 Jan 2012
Hazzelbanger
SA, 43 posts
13 Jan 2012 1:15PM
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I have real trouble gybing out to sea when over powered in 25+ kts and rough choppy water. I find as soon as I bear away the board picks up heaps of speed and starts bouncing around on the chop feeling unstable, and struggle to initiate the turn.

Sure I could change down sails and life is much easier, but the gust may only last for 30mins so I prefer to ride it thru.

What can I do to improve?

hardie
WA, 4083 posts
13 Jan 2012 10:50AM
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Hazzelbanger said...

I have real trouble gybing out to sea when over powered in 25+ kts and rough choppy water. I find as soon as I bear away the board picks up heaps of speed and starts bouncing around on the chop feeling unstable, and struggle to initiate the turn.

Sure I could change down sails and life is much easier, but the gust may only last for 30mins so I prefer to ride it thru.

What can I do to improve?


For starters Those conditions are hard for everone: You could try killing some speed, as you dont need extra speed in those conditions. You can try sailing up wind a bit, slowing down, then initiating the gybe. With the sail, you position it so it depowers, bend ze kneez, ankles and knees as shock absorbers..........

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
13 Jan 2012 1:51PM
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I have the same issue in choppy water.

I find I start to turn downwind then the board takes off and bounces downwind usually ending up with me falling off the back.

The only way for me to deal with it is to try to time the gybe onto some chop or a wave so I can bank into the turn using the face of the wave and hopefully getting a bit of flat water to do the turn, plus making the arc as tight as I can even if that means losing speed.

Mark _australia
WA, 22423 posts
13 Jan 2012 10:51AM
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don't bear away before starting the turn, start from a reach and just do it - maintain the carve from the very start

sheet in hard (oversheet), wieght forward, laydown style - if you keep the rail engaged it won't bounce

AUS1111
WA, 3619 posts
13 Jan 2012 11:33AM
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Bend your knees!!!!!

Really really bend 'em - heaps. Really exagerate the bend....and.....

do the exact opposite of what all of your instincts are telling you; over sheet the sail hard and aggressively, and carve hard into the turn. This is frightening but this is how you do it.

The quicker you can get from your sailing position into an over sheeted (sail stalled) position, the quicker you are safe from bouncing out. This is how you avoid the tentative semi-broad reach, am I or aren't I, "when will I slow down" position.

mineral1
WA, 4564 posts
13 Jan 2012 12:31PM
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Straight from Guy Cribb school of gybe.
"you will know if the knees are bent enough, you will be below boom eye level. If you can see at, or over boom, its not enough knee bend"

busterwa
3777 posts
13 Jan 2012 1:35PM
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wait for a second swell line to wall up and then catch it and jibe on the face

albers
NSW, 1737 posts
13 Jan 2012 6:16PM
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IMO, when the wind is strong and the conditions are bumpy/choppy, the tighter the turn must be.

You must aggressively carve the board with extra foot pressure on the downwind side so that you are turning in a much smaller arc than a usual gybe.

The rig flip is also much quicker and therefore timing the release is important.

The process is made a bit easier by using either swell or a piece of chop as a ramp.

Cheers

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8023 posts
13 Jan 2012 6:51PM
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Pull down into the boom to maintain mastfoot pressure + what others say..I can't do it very well but thats what Cribby says..It should help stop the board bouncing.

nbr
QLD, 291 posts
13 Jan 2012 5:57PM
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Guy Crib covers this topic in the latest Windsurfing magazine,I think he said it is also on his web site.

Hazzelbanger
SA, 43 posts
13 Jan 2012 6:50PM
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Thanks for all the tips. I look forward to giving them a crack.

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
13 Jan 2012 7:46PM
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I'll usually wait for a slight lull in the wind, and with our crappy conditions they are often plentifull and or find a smoother pocket of water and gybe tight.

pweedas
WA, 4642 posts
13 Jan 2012 5:02PM
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I usually just fall off.
Oh,.. you asked "What can I do to improve?"
I suppose that would be, try and fall off more gracefully.
I hope that helps.

snides8
WA, 1730 posts
13 Jan 2012 5:44PM
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If your sailing offshore,ie a wave board- aim to bare off on a swell or wave.
Believe it or not the added speed,if you can control the board,makes it easier to flip the rig
As the apparent wind swings forward and in doing so the rig feels weightless.
If gybing in choppy conditions i find the easiest way for me to control the board in a turn,is too reach my backhand as far down the boom as i can...past the outhaul cleat.
This has the effect of adding the full weight of the rig and rider to the leeward rail forcing
More of the rail into the water thus giving more bite...at the same time the front hand is grip over and pulling down Wards this and bending the knees and leaning forward are imo the keys to control in chop.
This technique should work for slalom and wave alike.
Try reaching further back on the boom (with the back hand)next time you gybe and see if it works
My 2 rupiah worth.

shear tip
NSW, 1125 posts
13 Jan 2012 8:58PM
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Get down low, and go, go go!!

Bend the knees, and really concentrate on keeping the board carving around the second half of the gybe.

If I'm really over powered, I'll flip the sail earlier than usual, and coast the middle third of the gybe, then grab the other side of the boom, squat low, and power out the final third.

stanly
QLD, 307 posts
13 Jan 2012 8:15PM
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Best advice I was given was;
1) move your rear hand back as far as you can
2) go into the gybe full speed, that way the sail effectively ends up going faster than the wind and feels light.

Use the swell to help turn the board.

Good luck.

terminal
1421 posts
13 Jan 2012 7:01PM
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Only thing I would add is to make sure as you flip the sail that you get your front hand right up beside the mast - if you dont already do this.

Corkers
NSW, 154 posts
13 Jan 2012 10:59PM
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+1 for mast foot pressure. I used to always bounce out of my jybes. Then started using heaps of down force through the boom well before initiating jybe and all the way through it. Really enguages the rail

Jimmy b
TAS, 116 posts
14 Jan 2012 12:02PM
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Bend your knees, keep your arse down, get the board on the rail brace yourself and fully commit. Most important to be full commited !!!

sboardcrazy
NSW, 8023 posts
14 Jan 2012 12:58PM
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Jimmy b said...

Bend your knees, keep your arse down, get the board on the rail brace yourself and fully commit. Most important to be full commited !!!


b scary though! ( even on a choppy lake in overpowered conditions.) Sometimes I'm blasting along and think Oh s..I've got to take my rear foot out of the strap..

saltiest1
NSW, 2496 posts
14 Jan 2012 1:30PM
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i had the same problem for ages. i found that if i picked a good bit of swell and timed it right, i could be as agressive as i liked without any problems of being bounced off.
same as above though:
bend knees
keep a reach
rear foot on rail, front foot locked in
lay it over on the rail
flick the sail around while still on the swell
youll find the wind will feel like its not there at all until you start pointing a little.

Waiting4wind
NSW, 1871 posts
14 Jan 2012 1:45PM
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The ever present challenge in cranking hard into the turn is our natural tendency to resist the forces acting upon us. ie. fighting the pull of the sail.

I've see some photos of my gybe when I thought I was really cranking, ie knees really bent, down low and leaning hard into the turn. Well it turns out that the photo proves me wrong! . I was just pretending!

Sometimes trying to think too much about the set up makes it worse, for me any way. I'll often try some mind tricks, like looking through the sail to where I need to turn. Or the 'bow & arrow' arm position, ie. front arm straight, back arm pulled back.

snides8
WA, 1730 posts
14 Jan 2012 11:51AM
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snides8 said...

If your sailing offshore,ie a wave board- aim to bare off on a swell or wave.
Believe it or not the added speed,if you can control the board,makes it easier to flip the rig
As the apparent wind swings forward and in doing so the rig feels weightless.
If gybing in choppy conditions i find the easiest way for me to control the board in a turn,is too reach my backhand as far down the boom as i can...past the outhaul cleat.
This has the effect of adding the full weight of the rig and rider to the leeward rail forcing
More of the rail into the water thus giving more bite...at the same time the front hand is grip over and pulling down Wards this and bending the knees and leaning forward are imo the keys to control in chop.
This technique should work for slalom and wave alike.
Try reaching further back on the boom (with the back hand)next time you gybe and see if it works
My 2 rupiah worth.


my method (the poo stance!)

some pics courtesy of Col Helifotos
shots taken off shore at Cervantes
conditions where flat but pics should indicate what i am talking
about
this is only the set up of the turn..the first 90deg
i tried to gybe off some chop,which was very close together thus i hit
the back of the next chop forcing a shift off weight forward to try and keep
momentum.



albers
NSW, 1737 posts
14 Jan 2012 4:28PM
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I think this photo is a reasonable example of a fast/tight gybe in the surf in strong winds. It highlights knees bent, extra mast foot pressure by pulling down on the boom and an aggressive carve of the downwind rail.



Cheers

CJW
NSW, 1718 posts
14 Jan 2012 5:11PM
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^^ If by reasonable example you mean what not to do, then yes. Posts 3 and 4 are the most relevant in this thread, good advice.

Zed
WA, 1243 posts
14 Jan 2012 3:33PM
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CJW said...

^^ If by reasonable example you mean what not to do, then yes. Posts 3 and 4 are the most relevant in this thread, good advice.


Ha ha yeah that sail position is going to end in FAIL when overpowered.

When it's really windy I tend to snap the board round quickly, oversheeting at the same time. Rather than a longer, carve you might do with a traditional gybe. Also using a wave/chop helps get the board around more smoothly.

petermac33
WA, 6415 posts
14 Jan 2012 5:37PM
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If you're not strong enough to pull in the backhand when gybing, then you are going to do a very wide arc turn.

Secret to gybing well in strong wind is to kill the power in the sail by oversheeting.

Using a smaller sail makes it so much easier to oversheet,this is my solution, or find a lull to gybe in.



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"Tips for gybing when over powered?" started by Hazzelbanger