Is there a difference?
I find with my waveboard and small freemove fin in flatwater or chop I sink the windward rail as I'm worried the fin will let go if I pressure it. ( It doesn't take much to let go).
Yesterday Mark told me to rail it up and that helped powered up on the slalom board but would the softer rails of the other boards change what's needed?
I find I can grovel upwind well and when really powered up seem to be able to hang out the side ( not much foot pressure on the smaller fins) and get upwind ok on smaller kit(pretty average on the large 7.5m + 115ltre board.) When I'm comfortably powered or a bit underpowered I seem pretty average..
I remove my front hand from the boom to grab the uphaul, makes a huge diff going upwind :-)
Sue, too much blah blah. Do some work so you can afford all the things you ask about 
Select to expand quoteka43 said..
Sue, too much blah blah. Do some work so you can afford all the things you ask about
So true..
supposed to be painting now.. ( not enough light yet..just another 30mins stuffing around..)
How come your reading it- get to work!..
Select to expand quoteseanhogan said..
I remove my front hand from the boom to grab the uphaul, makes a huge diff going upwind :-)
I used to do that and found it good. Will have to get back into doing it..
Glad you posted sboardcrazy. I suck at sailing upwind, more so on the freerace and slalom gear than the smaller fsw gear. My sailing buddies even have a few choice nicknames for me due to this
Been meaning to ask - can people describe the technique and feeling of sailing effectively upwind on slalom gear. My technique is obviously very wrong as I can not manage to point anywhere near as high as most people on slalom gear, honestly sometimes it seems only slightly higher than a reach!
I've gone through all the suggestions regarding setup, tried them all without success. I wondering if a better question might be, how does everything feel when planing upwind effectively?
Select to expand quotesboardcrazy said..seanhogan said..
I remove my front hand from the boom to grab the uphaul, makes a huge diff going upwind :-)
I used to do that and found it good. Will have to get back into doing it..
I think you did the guy cribb course yes? Anyway if you recall, he talks a lot about your behind (Ars...) so, he indicated, swing in the harness and push your coit forward, dont hang the top of torso out, just your coit, and keep the top half near to inboard as comfortable as possible. Forcing the coit forward will allow you to swing closer to the board nose, and your rear leg will straighten. Remember, going upwind, "MORE" out haul (flatter sail). If you dont, then it will end up cribbing only a lillybit up wind. If you get fin slippage, move the "rear" harness line back in 20mm increments til it stops, or take your foot out of rear strap, and place on front side of strap. This will help. 
Have a look at Cribbies fact sheet 'Cranking Upwind' I have found this extremely helpful.
.......... and then its just practise and tuning and lots of it !
You just need to register to access all of his fact sheets.
www.guycribb.com/
Select to expand quotemineral1 said..
sboardcrazy said..
seanhogan said..
I remove my front hand from the boom to grab the uphaul, makes a huge diff going upwind :-)
I used to do that and found it good. Will have to get back into doing it..
I think you did the guy cribb course yes? Anyway if you recall, he talks a lot about your behind (Ars...) so, he indicated, swing in the harness and push your coit forward, dont hang the top of torso out, just your coit, and keep the top half near to inboard as comfortable as possible. Forcing the coit forward will allow you to swing closer to the board nose, and your rear leg will straighten. Remember, going upwind, "MORE" out haul (flatter sail). If you dont, then it will end up cribbing only a lillybit up wind. If you get fin slippage, move the "rear" harness line back in 20mm increments til it stops, or take your foot out of rear strap, and place on front side of strap. This will help.
Interesting.. For some reason I thought I had to move the harness line forward to stop spinout..mmm couldn't have been the problem yesterday then..Ok I remember the bum around front one ( although I find that incredibly difficult with the 7.5m sail ( too unfit and puny)but I don't think I was keeping my upper body in close..Grr better get back to work again..
Ok Haggar I'm a Cribby fan and registered so will do some revision as something has obviously been lost in the last few months..
Select to expand quotejoe windsurf said..
from jp australia
Thanks I will have a look once I have done some more work..
I find that getting some good board speed up initially before pointing hard helps greatly - the faster you are going the more fin pressure you can apply (that's why the board tends to spin out when pointing hard and you hit a lull & board speed slows). I then rotate my hips forward which naturally trims the board really flat along the waterline i.e. extremely straight front leg even though body position is forward. This effectively utilises the leeward rail of the board to assist in pointing ability and takes some pressure off the fin and of course reduces board drag (which maintains decent speed)
It's much easier to point in over powered conditions and you can really fly off the fin whereas in lighter conditions you have to move your body forward and swing more off the boom. In the really light stuff my back foot never goes into the straps which tends to take some pressure off the fin and gets your body position all the way forward.
Select to expand quotejoe windsurf said..
from jp australia
Glad they had captions as I found it really hard to see his front leg bent etc. Before the caption I thought he had his front leg straight which was the opposite to what I knew..
The apparent wind on sailboards is amazing as even going downwind his sail is sheeted almost in!
I suppose I have practised a lot of this before but maybe I've lost the plot chasing 2 sec PB's!
Problem is you need to be able to get upwind to bearaway and get them..
Select to expand quotesboardcrazy said..
So technique doesn't vary that much depending on board type?
fundamentals still work the same on all short boards.
You may find things that help on some boards more than others.
Something that can make a huge difference = fins
Select to expand quoteHaggar said..
Have a look at Cribbies fact sheet 'Cranking Upwind' I have found this extremely helpful.
.......... and then its just practise and tuning and lots of it !
You just need to register to access all of his fact sheets.
www.guycribb.com/
I'll have to start practising this again.. that's interesting he says rake the rig forward and into the wind..I was being told to rake it back..
Thanks. I'd forgotten how good Cribby's info is.. I'll have to start to use it all again..
Select to expand quotesboardcrazy said..Haggar said..
Have a look at Cribbies fact sheet 'Cranking Upwind' I have found this extremely helpful.
.......... and then its just practise and tuning and lots of it !
You just need to register to access all of his fact sheets.
www.guycribb.com/
I'll have to start practising this again.. that's interesting he says rake the rig forward and into the wind..I was being told to rake it back..
Thanks. I'd forgotten how good Cribby's info is.. I'll have to start to use it all again..
Here's what I do; Bring weight forward and in, sink in to the harness, un-weight the board, push rig forward/upright and away slightly, straighten rear leg more than front, weight windward rail with rear foot, harder for more angle etc etc, lift front foot, trim sail so it doesn't stall.
Lead with your head doing this brings your body forward which helps get you upwind
Thanks for all the tips.. Glad I had the hissy fit last night as I think I will go back to basics and concentrate on upwind for a while..
then Pb's should follow..
I find upwind technique to be quite different on slalom vs waveboards (or, >23cm vs <23cm fins).
Short board, dig the rail in. Slalom, keep the board as flat as possible for max planing efficiency. My memory of Cribby's fact sheet is that it was more towards short board technique?
Practically the big different I notice with a slalom board is much more hyperextension from the big toe of the back foot to the leading shoulder, from the active levering of the board flat. I really concentrate on pushing through my big toe, lifting my back heel, and doing a kind of side crunch at the front to bring my leading shoulder down to my leading hip.
Of course if you're powered up you need this technique less!
Put as much weight on your back foot as possible and dig your back foot toes in / lifting your heel.
You need to lift the windward rail as much as possible. Feel like you are sailing on the far away rail ( the leeward rail )
You shouldn't feel you are sailing the board flat and certainly not with the windward rail engaging the water.
Using this technique the board should fly high!
You then adjust your upper body weight forward (in the gusts) or pull back (in the lulls)
A big board / small sail helps. A small board with a big sail is a disaster for going upwind!!
Lastly a harness with a hook that slides laterally can help too.
It helps to get more weight forward when you hit a gust.
Great information and things to try next time I sail the big gear. Appreciate the input from everyone.
Select to expand quotepetermac33 said..
Put as much weight on your back foot as possible and dig your back foot toes in / lifting your heel.
You need to lift the windward rail as much as possible. Feel like you are sailing on the far away rail ( the leeward rail )
You shouldn't feel you are sailing the board flat and certainly not with the windward rail engaging the water.
Using this technique the board should fly high!
You then adjust your upper body weight forward (in the gusts) or pull back (in the lulls)
A big board / small sail helps. A small board with a big sail is a disaster for going upwind!!
Lastly a harness with a hook that slides laterally can help too.
It helps to get more weight forward when you hit a gust.
Does that work when you are underfinned? I find with the 18cm deltas in any chop or the 18cm freemove fin on the waveboard there is no way I can weight the back foot or I spin out..
I was wondering about lifting the windward rail..When I tried that on the slalom board powered up in the flat with the 18cm delta it seemed to work but I wasn't game to try it in the chop as I was spinning out all the time.
Reading Cribby I think he says sink windward rail on fins < 23cms and can use fin pressure on those over? Or something like that..
How does lifting the rail work? It obviously does in the right conditions but I'm just wondering why?
I found with the small delta the other day I had to change from my normal upwind technique quite a bit. It took me about 90 minutes to work out how to get upwind efficiently.
Start by bearing off slightly to get some lift and water going over the fin, then straighten up, and begin pointing.
I did sink the windward rail. Haven't tried sinking the leeward rail.
I usually have my body quite forward, to go upwind. With this fin I found it better to have the body back, almost directly opposite the fin so the force down my back leg was going straight into the fin and I could almost push forward on it. Both legs pretty straight.
To avoid spinning out over chop make sure you are going at a reasonable speed, and that the fin stays in the water(choose your line carefully), then you can push on it as much as you want.
Select to expand quotepetermac33 said..
Put as much weight on your back foot as possible and dig your back foot toes in / lifting your heel.
You need to lift the windward rail as much as possible. Feel like you are sailing on the far away rail ( the leeward rail )
You shouldn't feel you are sailing the board flat and certainly not with the windward rail engaging the water.
Using this technique the board should fly high!
You then adjust your upper body weight forward (in the gusts) or pull back (in the lulls)
A big board / small sail helps. A small board with a big sail is a disaster for going upwind!!
Lastly a harness with a hook that slides laterally can help too.
It helps to get more weight forward when you hit a gust.
This technique is spot on for a wide race board with a big fin. Eg my starboard go 170.
But on a 85l wave board the techniqfires totally different. Particularly if not planning.
Here is what I learnt at the aloha clinic in Maui. When not planing on a wave board.
Put front leg next to mast foot ,toes pointing forward
Front leg straight, back leg bent
Rotate hips to front
Look up wind
Weight fully in harrness
Sink windward rail.
think mast foot pressure
Select to expand quoteYuppy said...petermac33 said..
Put as much weight on your back foot as possible and dig your back foot toes in / lifting your heel.
You need to lift the windward rail as much as possible. Feel like you are sailing on the far away rail ( the leeward rail )
You shouldn't feel you are sailing the board flat and certainly not with the windward rail engaging the water.
Using this technique the board should fly high!
You then adjust your upper body weight forward (in the gusts) or pull back (in the lulls)
A big board / small sail helps. A small board with a big sail is a disaster for going upwind!!
Lastly a harness with a hook that slides laterally can help too.
It helps to get more weight forward when you hit a gust.
This technique is spot on for a wide race board with a big fin. Eg my starboard go 170.
But on a 85l wave board the techniqfires totally different. Particularly if not planning.
Here is what I learnt at the aloha clinic in Maui. When not planing on a wave board.
Put front leg next to mast foot ,toes pointing forward
Front leg straight, back leg bent
Rotate hips to front
Look up wind
Weight fully in harrness
Sink windward rail.
think mast foot pressure
+1 from the Cribby Clinic and works a treat on any board when not planing.
Select to expand quotesboardcrazy said..petermac33 said..
...
Does that work when you are underfinned? I find with the 18cm deltas in any chop or the 18cm freemove fin on the waveboard there is no way I can weight the back foot or I spin out..
I was wondering about lifting the windward rail..When I tried that on the slalom board powered up in the flat with the 18cm delta it seemed to work but I wasn't game to try it in the chop as I was spinning out all the time.
Reading Cribby I think he says sink windward rail on fins < 23cms and can use fin pressure on those over? Or something like that..
How does lifting the rail work? It obviously does in the right conditions but I'm just wondering why?
Basically you can't push against the fin to get upwind with a small fin (<~23cm). Which is what you'd use on a wave board. So you'll hear some people talk about these two upwind techniques being for smaller vs larger fins and some for wave board vs slalom boards. They're describing the same thing in two different ways.
Re "lifting" the windward rail - no idea why it works. I've also never been able to work out whether it's really lifting that much or whether it just feels like that - the board always looks pretty flat.
Wow I didn't realise how technical this all is , my poor head hurts , get a pointer and head back to coalie when it's marginal , just watch out for the breaching great white
Tried Guy cribbs technique in c 2ft chop off cCoal pt today and worked great. I wasn't that fast as a bit overpowered at times so wasn't keen on pulling the sail in with the rig tipped forward but very happy with angle. Had a 38cm then 30cm weedie on.
All I do is look way up wind more the i actually want to achieve, By over exaggerating the look your body and kits justs falls into place and you crank upwind....Well it works for me. Slalom kit is easier to get upwind because of outboard straps and bigger fins, just load up the fin and they go upwind. Wave gear on the other hand needs more rail in the water to help carve upwind, really pull up on the toes of the front foot....I move my back foot out of the strap slightly and pull up on those toes as well to get the board really carving up wind. I can't rember the last time I ever had spin out while sailing? I think the key is to get speed off the wind before loading up the fin and unloading the back foot when cresting chop and all should be sweet.
I've seen you sail Sue, You do know what your doing and sail very well....Don't stress just blast!
