Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Accuracy of GPS devices - Wear them on your head!

Reply
Created by sailquik > 9 months ago, 19 Jan 2015
sailquik
VIC, 6095 posts
23 Oct 2015 2:01PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Roo said..
Really don't think it matters too much whether your gps(s) units are mounted on your arm or your head. Doesn't seem to affect the gps records that have been claimed and awarded as there's nothing in the rules to dsq if they are not on your head. Best advice is not to have in under your wetsuit or to stick it down your boardshorts, other than that just get out and windsurf as fast as you can.


Good point Roo, getting out there and doing it is the most important thing for sure.

But there have been some cases with Records where the data was not as good as it could have been and that does affect the error correction figures, some times up to 0.2knots, which is significant when at the records level. We had one Record claim that had to be rejected under the rules because the difference between the two GPS's were too great, clearly caused by poor reception on one of the units. It also has implications for the top rankings in any competitions. It is not something that most of us are normally aware of as we don't look at the error margin figures for out normal competitions and rankings, but I believe it is something we should be doing as soon as the technology allows it.

Testing comparisons with multiple GPS mounted on the head and arm can show some significant differences in less than ideal GPS reception conditions. If you happen to fluke really excellent GPS conditions, the difference can be insignificant, but we are usually unaware of that until we look at the data afterwards, and if you have no other GPS to compare it with you probably would not notice This is especially the case with GPS devices that have less efficient reception or are badly oriented. We are all very happy to accept that 2 second max PB of 35, 40, 45 or even 50 knots and soak up the accolades, but do we ever look at the error range figures and realise that it could be over half a knot out? It's even worse with the Max. speed display! The error range is greatly reduced with a 10 second run and this is a major reason why this was implemented as a GPS standard in the beginning when out GPS devices were very crude in comparison with now. It is further reduced with 5Hz 10 second runs and significantly further reduced with 10Hz, even for 2 seconds! We still have a long way to go to match our accuracy expectations and popular assumptions with reality, but the developing technology is taking us towards that pretty quickly.

But yes, upper arm mounting, done well, has always been an easy compromise for reasonable efficiency most of the time.

Bonominator
VIC, 5477 posts
23 Oct 2015 6:19PM
Thumbs Up

Sounds awesome but $$$ for now. That's surely the future. Integration into outerwear and 100% waterproof.

decrepit
WA, 12210 posts
23 Oct 2015 8:52PM
Thumbs Up

I agree with Andrew here, with something like the GT31 that has very good sensitivity, maybe it doesn't matter that much, but the GW52 isn't quite as sensitive and if you want reliable accuracy, it's better on your head.
I tried the PIxie 3 on my head today, but as is my want sometimes I used my head to manoeuvre the sail, this turned the display off and caused havoc with the results.

With the insensitive xperia I definitely get much better looking results when it's on my head.

Gustenzo
WA, 108 posts
14 Dec 2015 11:02PM
Thumbs Up

So wearing the GPS (say Canmore 102) inside paqua case within bucket hat with chinstrap is no good once I wipe out gybing? By no good I mean increases the chances of erroneous data. Suppose I could just strap the paqua to my head, couldn't make me look any worse!

seanhogan
QLD, 3424 posts
15 Dec 2015 5:29AM
Thumbs Up

102 probably has the best reception, I sailed with one inside the wetsuit on my chest and one on my arm and got the exact same results.

decrepit
WA, 12210 posts
15 Dec 2015 7:15PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Vinno said..
So wearing the GPS (say Canmore 102) inside paqua case within bucket hat with chinstrap is no good once I wipe out gybing? By no good I mean increases the chances of erroneous data. Suppose I could just strap the paqua to my head, couldn't make me look any worse!


Inside a plastic helmet is OK, but inside wet cloth or wetsuit material, results in loss of signal.
Although Sean got away with it, I certainly wouldn't recommend it, any loss of signal can't be a good thing.

pirrad
SA, 850 posts
29 Dec 2015 12:10PM
Thumbs Up

Helmet mount done, one (Lindt chocolate box lid) with non slip rubber inserted inside as padding, inserted into helmet and glued, inner helmet padding reinstated with Velcro dots, mesh and screws ( 2x screws have rubber band stretched over middle of phone. Not overly pleased with the look of the mesh fit but it will do until I think of something better.








pirrad
SA, 850 posts
2 Jan 2016 8:10PM
Thumbs Up

Didn't even try the mesh, opted for several substantial rubber bands. Tested out today and happy with the way it all works, the audio feedback through the Blueant Pumps was great, just need to get the rigging right for the conditions.



pirrad
SA, 850 posts
2 Jan 2016 8:31PM
Thumbs Up

I knew I was on the right track, several things of the substantial
size, penny dropped, rubber bands of course.

decrepit
WA, 12210 posts
2 Jan 2016 6:14PM
Thumbs Up

I've been looking at a lot of alphas lately, and even on the upper arm there can be a big loss of accuracy.
A good alpha that doesn't have sky view degraded returns a typical +/- of 0.3kts, but a bad example can be over 1kt.
It mainly happens on gybe entry, I assume because as the rider leans into the gybe the GPS sky view is obscured somewhat.
On top of the shoulder looks to give better results if it's too hard to mount on the head.

John340
QLD, 3172 posts
19 Jan 2016 11:06PM
Thumbs Up

Embedding your GPS in the top of your helmet may give you a more accurate device, but have you thought about what the modifications to the helmet does to its integrity? Presumably you wear a helmet to protect your head during a crash.

decrepit
WA, 12210 posts
19 Jan 2016 9:43PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
John340 said..
Embedding your GPS in the top of your helmet may give you a more accurate device, but have you thought about what the modifications to the helmet does to its integrity? Presumably you wear a helmet to protect your head during a crash.


Precisely, that's why I haven't modified the helmet at all, on top of my gath are a series of slots, I've threaded a webbing strap through the slots, and attached the paqua midi to that



So in a crash the gps gives another small layer of protection.
There's no room for a gps inside a gath anyway. I prefer the smallest helmet possible, as I've found increasing the size of your head, increases the impact with water, putting a greater load on the neck. I don't think the relatively loose paqua bag will have much effect that way.

mr love
VIC, 2360 posts
20 Jan 2016 6:41AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
John340 said..
Embedding your GPS in the top of your helmet may give you a more accurate device, but have you thought about what the modifications to the helmet does to its integrity? Presumably you wear a helmet to protect your head during a crash.


Not to mention Alien mind control, I hope you left the tin foil under the Lindt chocolate box. I am picturing a whole bunch of kids on Planet Thwark playing their version of Windsurfing, The Game.

mr love
VIC, 2360 posts
20 Jan 2016 11:53AM
Thumbs Up

Sorry , just takin the piss. It will actually be Plankton doing the mind control



Seriously I agree with John that removing the top of the helmet maybe not the safest thing to do???



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"Accuracy of GPS devices - Wear them on your head!" started by sailquik