Now I have time to digest the implications of the use of this device I am very concerned.
As far as I can tell the main reason for the unit not being fully waterproof is the use if the standard USB connector, rather than the non standard waterproof design used in the GX32 watch. I realised that the touch screen will not work through waterproof bags! This is a major design flaw. The unit needs to be fully waterproof for proper use.
It may be that feedback from the prototype testers wanting a standard type of USB connection muddied their thinking. I think we need a concerted campaign from the shops and buying public to lobby Locosys to change the case to a fully waterproof connection and construction.
I am investigating it further.....
When I tested the watch last year the first thing I noticed was the touch screen.I was immediately aware that touch screens don't work with water contact on the screen and this tested that way.I reported this in my reply to locosys at the time.This was a fundamental design flaw imo.
It appears that this design is a compromise.
A lot of manufacturers have different cradles and the like for charging and downloading without the need for a USB port.
I have the quatix and this design is superb except for the lack of suitable data for our needs.,
I highlighted these issues in an email to Locosys last week and have been in conversation with them since. I have given them a link to this thread too so all concerns are being seen first- hand.
The strongest points are as Daffy states;
Interface/touchscreen thru bag and when wet
Water resistance/USB port
Battery capacity
Wireless qi charging and Bluetooth data transfer would do the trick.
The waterproof connector they used in the prototype watch would make it waterproof. That we can realistically ask for. Bluetooth data transfer may or may not work with the current memory configuration.
A GPS for sailing that is not waterproof ????? why would you buy one ! I think my GT31 is good for the Job! you would think they would improve not go backwards
NOT Water proof
Less battery life
Touch Screen that is unlikely to work on in a bag
small memory
4 gigantic backwards steps
+1 on all the above. Locosys, if you are reading this, I would hazard a guess that at the moment, for the average windsurfer, the Canmore unit at 1/3 the price is commercially a more attractive option.( despite the strong brand loyalty displayed by windsurfers) The Canmore's previously noted shortcomings are very similar to the GW52 deficiencies. The GW52 only has a small increase in precision to offer for its 300% increase in price over the Canmore. I am not sure this bird is gonna fly.. .
A GPS for sailing that is not waterproof ????? why would you buy one ! I think my GT31 is good for the Job! you would think they would improve not go backwards
NOT Water proof
Less battery life
Touch Screen that is unlikely to work on in a bag
small memory
4 gigantic backwards steps
I didn't realise the GT31 was waterproof as I always use it in a aquapack.. I suppose you need a way to attach it but can you use them not waterproofed safely? ( Sorry thread hijack but as it was mentioned..
A GPS for sailing that is not waterproof ????? why would you buy one ! I think my GT31 is good for the Job! you would think they would improve not go backwards
NOT Water proof
Less battery life
Touch Screen that is unlikely to work on in a bag
small memory
4 gigantic backwards steps
I didn't realise the GT31 was waterproof as I always use it in a aquapack.. I suppose you need a way to attach it but can you use them not waterproofed safely? ( Sorry thread hijack but as it was mentioned..
SPLASH PROOF ONLY
GT-31 is IPX7 and needs additional waterproofing for action sports. The new product is currently being tested to meet IPX7 however we are lobbying for IPX8. I personally would be happy to pay a few dollars more unit for an uplift of the spec of the USB port to achieve IPX8.
You knew it was suspect as soon as you saw the stock photographs of windsurfers they chose. Admit it.
[
A GPS designed for windsurfing that is not waterproof and has a touch screen.
At least the battery lasts 1 year if you only use it for a watch.
You knew it was suspect as soon as you saw the stock photographs of windsurfers they chose. Admit it.
[
A GPS designed for windsurfing that is not waterproof and has a touch screen.
At least the battery lasts 1 year if you only use it for a watch.
My guess the designers do not windsurf!
I'm pretty positive that if we can influence Locosys to make the necessary improvements to the product for it to be successful at market, we will be able to supply them with a better image to use for their web marketing.
SO
Lets see what you all think would be appropriate in terms of imagery and we can give them some good ideas!! Pics anyone??
GT-31 is IPX7 and needs additional waterproofing for action sports. The new product is currently being tested to meet IPX7 however we are lobbying for IPX8. I personally would be happy to pay a few dollars more unit for an uplift of the spec of the USB port to achieve IPX8.
The new products' spec sheet says IP 54... as in 5-particle, 4-water.
If it is being tested for IP7 or IP8, then you must be holding back some rather important info... :) please share!
GT-31 is IPX7 and needs additional waterproofing for action sports. The new product is currently being tested to meet IPX7 however we are lobbying for IPX8. I personally would be happy to pay a few dollars more unit for an uplift of the spec of the USB port to achieve IPX8.
The new products' spec sheet says IP 54... as in 5-particle, 4-water.
If it is being tested for IP7 or IP8, then you must be holding back some rather important info... :) please share!
No secrets - possibly my grammatical misinterpretation of an email due to language difference - will seek to clarify.
I'd just like to say that current discussions behind the scenes are covering all the concerns voiced above, and Locosys are very grateful for the feedback.
My only request is that we be positive and supportive in our suggestions. We are privileged to be having a product developed specifically for us and I personally believe we a very close to seeing a good stride forward with this product.
We now have a really tight brief to work with and now we just need to be patient and have some fun.
Again let me propose we have some fun with how we could advise Locosys on imagery for their marketing! Finding some great speedsailing images will be easy and fun - do we also include kite/surf/SUP/MTB in a photomontage??
Please post your offerings!
A GPS for sailing that is not waterproof ????? why would you buy one ! I think my GT31 is good for the Job! you would think they would improve not go backwards
NOT Water proof
Less battery life
Touch Screen that is unlikely to work on in a bag
small memory
4 gigantic backwards steps
I didn't realise the GT31 was waterproof as I always use it in a aquapack.. I suppose you need a way to attach it but can you use them not waterproofed safely? ( Sorry thread hijack but as it was mentioned..
SPLASH PROOF ONLY
The gt31 is waterproof if the back closes properly on the seal. I lost mine at the start of a sailing session. I forgot to do up the waterproof pack and it fell out. It floated happily face down until for about an hour until I nearly ran over it. Picked it up, no water in it, put it back in my waterproof bag and continued sailing. The unit is still working about a year later.
I agree that we should encourage locosys to develop a more sophisticated unit with better features in a positive way. I am sure we can get some great images from everyone.
I had a completely different experience with my GT-31. When the Aquapac leaked and allowed a tiny quantity of water inside, mine just drowned.
I think that: 1) either IPX7 is not enough, or the GT-31 was largely overstated; and 2) survival of GPS loggers when wet should not be an issue of fates but should rather be granted by proper waterproofing.
In the meanwhile I bought me a Paqua bag for my Canmore (the bag costed me way more than the logger).
In my view (I already wrote this somewhere else, but maybe Locosys is really reading this forum): the ideal solution for waterproofing was already being followed by Garmin with the Foretrex. The outside contacts and the "cradle". I don't see a safer way in order to provide safe waterproofing AND data output and recharging (unless going the wireless path, which I don't like personally - keep it simple). The problem with the Foretrex was waterproofing of the screen, but that one can be easily solved. And, size and wearability were really OK in my view, too.
Would you even trust a unit that is fully waterproof to IPX8? My kids have suffed so many waterproof cameras that were supposedly waterproof. All you need is a grain of sand under the seal and your in trouble. Maybe the manufacture can come up with a professional water proof housing and a toggle button?
I use a unit from Kato? that I have installed a grommet so I can reset my max speed. With a properly shaped grommet I could access all functions and have the security of an extra water seal. Mounted in a custom arm sleeve, this is all I want!
As for improving the graphics, I would be happy to have my dial on the next model? (note the old roll up waterproof bag- there has to be a better way!)
What about you other guys? Im sure there must be better photos out there?
So do I buy a GT31(if possible?) or wait for the new one to come out(when??)?
Can anyone quickly explain what the new one offers over the old?
Cheers
So do I buy a GT31(if possible?) or wait for the new one to come out(when??)?
Can anyone quickly explain what the new one offers over the old?
Cheers
Did you read the thread?
Get a GT-31 if you still can. An pair it with a Paqua bag or a solid waterproof box like the ones Kato makes.
Received this today from the Sales Mgr from Locosys - for what it's worth:
Thanks for your feedback and opinions for our GW-52.
The specification of GW-52 hasn’t be completely fixed yet. Our target is to make it compatible with GT-31/BGT-31 both in price and waterproof IPX7 Level.
We will ship out our device to our selected agent for trail very soon.
If there’s any update, we will keep you posted.
We understand that customers (especially for the windsurfing customers) prefer to have a product with higher waterproof level (like IPX8) and with a ruggedized housing. We estimate that it will make the unit price become 3 more times higher than the price of GT-31/BGT-31 to fulfill those requirements. The C/P value is relatively low both from user and manufacturer point of view. More than that, the size and weight will be double at least than current unit. We doubt if it is suitable for arm or wrist wearing for extreme sports. This is the main reasons LOCOSYS decided to focus on IPX7, and the unit price will compatible with GT-31. We only suggest our windsurfing customers to use GW-52 with a water proof bag to protect the unit as GT-31 does. (IPX7 is still not enough for extreme sports)
In addition, GW-52 has its particular speed genie function for surfing users. The speed genie function is designed to display the speed result (max,max avg) after every session.
There is no need to operate the device whiling surfing. You can refer to our user guide or contact us for more information.
As to the memory size, based on 1Hz update rate, totally 120,000 points can be stored which equal to 33 hours operation. In order to keep its compact size, the battery capacity is limited to around 8 hours. Users can extend the volume by using external USB battery packs.If you have any other questions regarding to our GW-52, please don’t hesitate to contact us.
Thank you again for interested in GW-52, and loved our GT-31/BGT-31!
It appears that many who emailed Locosys with their concerns got the almost identical answer.
It also appears that they have heeded our concerns regarding the waterproofing of the casing to at least conceded that they may be able to make it IPX7.
This is quite a big thing and good news as it should make the unit usable in a waterproof bag, whereas without that, it would be very vulnerable to condensation and leaks in the bag.
Even the best waterproof bags eventually leak at least a few drops, many fill completely. My GT-31s survived most bag leaks with IPX7 rating.
It is true that 33 hours @ 1hz logging should adequate for a 24 hr attempt or a couple of days sailing whist on vacation away from a suitable windows computer, but that is still inadequate in many ways. For a start, you need to have a Windows computer available that has the proprietary drivers and software to download the data. Also, if you are speed sailing and therefore using the much better 5hz logging, you will only get a bit over 6hrs which is one day for many users. This highlights the previous point where you must have available the properly set up Windows computer after every session. What about all of us who have Apple Mac computers, or even those who use Linux?
The battery life is limited to around 8hrs at 1hz logging. Less at 5hz logging. They have not provided specification for battery life at 5hz logging yet. It may not be enough to cover a typical session! Even if it is, we all know that, typically, battery life degenerates during the life of the product. That seems to be cutting it way too fine.
It would seem obvious that if they could give the very small and compact watch that same battery life, there should be plenty of room in this much larger case for a much larger battery. Using an external USB battery pack may be some sort of solution, but it is hardly a good one. If there is not enough room in the case, they should make it larger (and certainly should have from the start!)
Bottom line: We may have a usable device at a reasonable price, but is is far from what it could have easily been.
It appears that many who emailed Locosys with their concerns got the almost identical answer.
It also appears that they have heeded our concerns regarding the waterproofing of the casing to at least conceded that they may be able to make it IPX7.
This is quite a big thing and good news as it should make the unit usable in a waterproof bag, whereas without that, it would be very vulnerable to condensation and leaks in the bag.
Even the best waterproof bags eventually leak at least a few drops, many fill completely. My GT-31s survived most bag leaks with IPX7 rating.
It is true that 33 hours @ 1hz logging should adequate for a 24 hr attempt or a couple of days sailing whist on vacation away from a suitable windows computer, but that is still inadequate in many ways. For a start, you need to have a Windows computer available that has the proprietary drivers and software to download the data. Also, if you are speed sailing and therefore using the much better 5hz logging, you will only get a bit over 6hrs which is one day for many users. This highlights the previous point where you must have available the properly set up Windows computer after every session. What about all of us who have Apple Mac computers, or even those who use Linux?
The battery life is limited to around 8hrs at 1hz logging. Less at 5hz logging. They have not provided specification for battery life at 5hz logging yet. It may not be enough to cover a typical session! Even if it is, we all know that, typically, battery life degenerates during the life of the product. That seems to be cutting it way too fine.
It would seem obvious that if they could give the very small and compact watch that same battery life, there should be plenty of room in this much larger case for a much larger battery. Using an external USB battery pack may be some sort of solution, but it is hardly a good one. If there is not enough room in the case, they should make it larger (and certainly should have from the start!)
Bottom line: We may have a usable device at a reasonable price, but is is far from what it could have easily been.
My main comment regarding their reply is that it is desirable to operate the device while surfing. We are not only interested in the data which speed genie displays.
Maybe if it cycled through average trip speed and total distance as well...
My main comment regarding their reply is that it is desirable to operate the device while surfing. We are not only interested in the data which speed genie displays.
Maybe if it cycled through average trip speed and total distance as well...
Anita I received the same letter, and replied in that vein, if we have to rely on speed genie, then speed genie needs to display every thing we need. Preferentially scroll through one at a time in big font, including "history max" and "distance".
Sorry I didn't think about avg trip speed, that could be helpful for an hour mission.
Waterproofing any sort of device with a usb cable plugged in isn't possible. Just by placing both in a case means that there will be only one level of protection, any moisture or leaks WILL kill both devices.
Currently working on a case that will protect a phone and external battery for a side project but still can't protect when plugged in to cables....ideas???
The case is good for 3m at 4hrs so far
Idea : just wondering how they water proof the wiring on underwater robots there might be a answer there somewhere !
My main comment regarding their reply is that it is desirable to operate the device while surfing. We are not only interested in the data which speed genie displays.
Maybe if it cycled through average trip speed and total distance as well...
Anita I received the same letter, and replied in that vein, if we have to rely on speed genie, then speed genie needs to display every thing we need. Preferentially scroll through one at a time in big font, including "history max" and "distance".
Sorry I didn't think about avg trip speed, that could be helpful for an hour mission.
I agree with Mike and Anita. It needs to scroll through all the data we need.
Mike, the History max average is what the genies max average is set too. Usually ten seconds, but you are quite right, I guess it could be set to one hour, but then you would only see it when you stop after the hour.
I have asked Locosys to add the functionality of the updated Windsurfing firmware distributed originally by Tom Chalko, and include a report of total session distance. I am assuming firmware changes like this are relatively easy to achieve compared with hardware changes.