Select to expand quoteHI,
( PLease note, This is what I have come across, and it is my view only and tack from it what you think and place your own judgement, Thank you )
Some of you are aware of this proposal, but for those who have not been sailing recently there is a boat ramp proposed at the mouth of cooks river.
This boat ramp will utilise the northern car park that we use in Northerlies.
It will be an expansion of the current car park, to of coarse allow for the ramp access and trailer parking.
At present there is a current boat ramp as we are aware further up stream of the mouth of Cooks river, The boating traffic in its current location is fine and manageable by us windsurfers, I thought this location was ideal not affected by wind and calm water for launching from.
However being in a developed area with homes surrounding the ramp it probably is not ideal anymore.
Therefore this new boat ramp will be more convenient for the boaties and jet skis.
Some of the points that I and I assume you all would agree is that the increase of boating activity because of the new and larger boat ramp will of coarse be a pain, not only the increase of traffic but we will not be able to freely track back and forth as we do now without avoiding boats and jet skis, Extra chop, more people on the beach, we may have restricted launch area due to the extra people also enjoying the beach which we all are allowed to do, parking will be less due to increase of people. I feel that many of us may even be push out of windsurfing if you are the ones who only sail weekends in summer and on the occasional free time you have, you and for that matter I will experience times of avoiding collisions and being unsafe with boats zoning past at close proximity this will unfortunately become more prevalent once the new ramp is built, some days it may even be unsailable.
The boat ramp on Foreshore drive is large and in summer months is overcrowed, this proposed ramp at Cooks river will alleviate Foreshore drive congestion of about 40%, this is my assumption, therefore the increase of boating traffic out of cooks river will have a problematic affect on the water.
The car park will be utilised by family and friends of boat users which is fine we all need to enjoy the water, also the beach in front of the car park will be utilise more by the boaties beaching their craft cleaning there catch of the day also more swimmers of the boaties and of coarse jet skis and friends will use the beach more because boat ramp and carpark is all accessible to the beach without driving elsewhere. (We all have the right to share and enjoy the beach of coarse)
I do not own a boat but do have friends who do and occasionally attend a day of fishing with then and probably will be using the new ramp at some stage, I am not against the proposed Boat ramp, however there could be other location where other water uses do not use the water in front and the boating and fishing community can use without any affect to others. This is a State Funded project I think and Rockdale Council have been invited to oversee the Proposal and the management of the facility once Built..
So what now, do we or can we have a say, well yes. I have spoken to Rockdale council. In particular Had a friendly conversation with Colin Mable, Executive Engineer City Infrastructure Rockdale City Council. His comment was they did have studies around the bay to determine the best location for this new boat ramp and it was concluded that this site best suited the needs of the parties involved, primarily the South Sydney Amateur fishing association and the recreational fishing alliance which were the drivers for this project.
He suggested to forward a brief explanation to Beth.Andean@worleyparsons.com Until 2 April. of what we do on the bay and how we utilise that corner of the bay and how this will be problematic for us.
link hope they work it shows the proposed boat ramp image.
<div>www.fishingworld.com.au › home › boats › Boating Bits
I think we need to find a better place to sail on Summer weekends with NEsterlies, the situation has already become too crowded and full of jet skiers. Some already do the trip to Sanctuary point...
Select to expand quotepowersloshin said..
I think we need to find a better place to sail on Summer weekends with NEsterlies, the situation has already become too crowded and full of jet skiers. Some already do the trip to Sanctuary point...
Really? You want a place that is 30mins away for a lot of people to be replaced with a place that is 3 hours drive away?
There are days in summer when there are noreasters and a lot of people sail after work, and this is probably one of the most accessible places to do it.
I rode my bike past the boat ramp on the river on Saturday. Why would they not want to use that? Its protected, and relatively easy access.
Rockdale council seem to want to do something with everything! They wanted to turn the area a little bit south of there into a big marina with lots of shops and I am sure more apartments. Then there was talk in the local paper about turning the whole area into a similar area to Nice in France, except for the fact there is a bunch of traffic running through the area as its a conduit for all the people that live in the south.
Before they wanted to turn some of the foreshore into a multistorey car park. It seems that if its vacant land, no one could possibly want to use it, so lets build something on it. I think councils must be flush if they are wanting to build all sorts of new things.
HI
I have sent my concerns to the email Beth.Andean@worleyparsons.com
Hoping for a reply if I get one.
The previous link was not working hope this one opens
www.fishingworld.com.au/news/public-get-say-on-proposed-botany-bay-ramp
Regards
Walt
Thanks for bringing this to our attention Walt.
This is just going to become a jet ski launch ramp.
I mean how many recreational fishing and pleasure craft (excluding jet skis)does one see on the bay over the weekend?
Very few and certainly not enough to justify this sort of expense.
Here is another link to the Rockdale Council survey on the project.http://haveyoursayrockdale.com.au/cookpark-boatramp/survey_tools/cook-park-boat-ramp-parking-area-survey
I had looked at the survey and it talks about Cooks Park. I looked this up on Google Maps as I'm not familiar with the name of the parks down there. Cooks Park is down the other end of the foreshore, near Ramsgate. I don't those who windsurf up the other end of the beach at Kyeemagh need to worry about this proposed boat ramp.
Perhaps Walt you are talking of another proposed boat ramp?
Hi Mobydisc,
Yes you are correct in saying that on google earth maps it does indicate Cook park is down at Ramsgate.
However it is clear by the indicative drawing on the fishing world web site that they are calling the mouth of Cooks river the Cook park site.
Open the link I posted and have a look at the image it will clarify the location.
I don't know why a boat ramp there is necessary as there is a huge boat ramp and car park over on Foreshore Drive. Unless the car park is expanded at Kyeemagh then we can look forward to most of the parking spaces being taken up by cars and boat trailers from early morning. I too have filled out the survey.
Its getting progressively worse at Kyeemagh anyway. I think the new car park opened around 2012 and it was pretty good back then as not many people knew about it. However as time goes on more people find out about the place. It becomes dirtier. More litter, more graffiti, harder to find a spot to park on a summer weekend, more crowded. If this boat ramp goes through then its a step in the same downward direction.
HiSelect to expand quotebenyip said..
I have checked the internet, looks like this project is very likely to go ahead, meaning no windsurfing in NE anymore
no more windsurfing??? Not Necessarily.
Well, the project may go ahead, It is important that we as windsurfers do not dismiss our voice. We can be heard, or at least we will be considered.
I am hoping for a reply from the council. A possible outcome that I would be happy with is if they ask for a description of windsurfing and how do we utilise that corner of the Bay, and ask if we windsurfers could see any safety measure that could be implemented.
Well there are many ways.
If it goes ahead this what I would like
-I would like a corridor path for the boats and jet skis to follow to the end of the runway. so as they exit the mouth of cooks river there is more bouys placed parallel to the runway about 80 from the wall to the end of the runway.
-In that corridor a 4knot limit
-The beach where we launch from and possibly 400meter from the swimming nets on the south side, to be a no boat or jets ski beach landing area.
-From that 400meter point to the tip of the corridor runway bouys and everything inside that zone to be a no boat or jet ski zone after that they can zoom as fast as they want and go where they want.
So these few points would still give us the windsurfing area as it is now until the corridor which is ok I think. It will keep the beach open with boats everywhere and as it is now. it will be safer without and collisions. it will also move the friends of the boaties further down the beach so they can all have a go of waterskiing or jet skiing in the open area of the bay not inside the no boat zone.
If us windsurfers sail past these zone as many do well that ok just be aware, the bay is open once past these point plenty of room.
What do you guys think of those points. Please add you suggestion to the list. hope it all makes sense.
It can easily be implemented and once it is in place it wil be easy no problems and we will not be affected at all, and still have the area and water space as before but safer.
Yes the carpark will be busy but only trailers not three car loads of boating friends because they will park further down the beach in the open zone easier to carry all the towels, esky and the like to meet the boat or jets ski on the beach.
So I think it could be a win win for all if there are logical people in the council, the water authorities will also me involved which they need to be aware of us also.
There are a few people in the boating and water world amongst us windsurfers that could offer some letters also to the persecutive departments explaining the above or your own options that would help the safety aspect and the zone areas if thats what we are looking for.
Working to hard, its time for a sail.
regards
Walt
Select to expand quote
-I would like a corridor path for the boats and jet skis to follow to the end of the runway. so as they exit the mouth of cooks river there is more bouys placed parallel to the runway about 80 from the wall to the end of the runway.
-In that corridor a 4knot limit
-The beach where we launch from and possibly 400meter from the swimming nets on the south side, to be a no boat or jets ski beach landing area.
-From that 400meter point to the tip of the corridor runway bouys and everything inside that zone to be a no boat or jet ski zone after that they can zoom as fast as they want and go where they want.
excellent suggestion, it is a win win suggestion, I hope you have put forward these points
In summer busy days, there are 30+ windsufers out there, very dangerous for boat and jet skiis at the same spot, and create pollution as well,
If they remove the beach there, I have no choice but to launch from the boat ramp, not a wise option, but 2.5 hours to Santuary point single way is too hectic for us, although it is a better spot
Do you have any comments on the existing parking facilities at Cook Park, Kyeemagh?
Could be larger - thinking here of the many people who come to enjoy the area without bulky outdoor equipment (that is normally launched straight off the beach, such as sea-kayaks and windsurfers). The former makes it difficult to rig windsurfing gear on sometimes limited grass. The former can inadvertently make parking very difficult with respect to the much bulky equipment of kayakers and windsurfers.
It would be ideal for council to purchase a residential block or two in Bestic St or The Grand Parade, and install a multi-level car park for park users. Then install signage requesting car drivers to keep the foreshore parking free for people with said bulky gear.
By of example, Berowra Waters boat ramp area has a multi-level car park.
What do you see are the disadvantages for Council constructing a boat ramp and parking area at Cook Park, Kyeemagh?
This would deplete significantly the area available to windsurfers, both inexperienced learners, and experienced board riders, alike.
Windsurfers need available beachfront area to launch with available wind - to have this well-known wind-surfing area depleted in beach-front accessibilty would reduce - significantly - this popular and outstanding windsurfing locale.
To have a boat ramp here would encourage PWC ('jet-skis') to park on the adjacent beach - and to continue their noisy, disrespectful and dangerous predisposition to rapid acceleration away from the boat ramp and beach, and unpredictable turning very nearby. This, in turn would add to the noise levels.
Do you have any other general feedback you wish to provide Council in relation to the Project (boat ramp and parking area)?
Why is the popular sport of wind-surfing not mentioned in the descriptions of this survey?
Botany Bay at Kyeemagh is a very desirable place for wind-surfers to practice their sport. It is spoken of positively for its consistent and frequent wind, nationally.
Why does Rockdale City Council propose to construct a boat ramp at Cook Park, Kyeemagh? There are two other boat ramps nearby that service the north-western end of Botany Bay - why are these not considered enough? In a perfect world, finances would allow for the use of 'lost' waters between the two runways that jut out into Botany Bay, for a boat-ramp - although jet-turbine blast may be an issue.
Is Worley Parsons the appropriate business for Rockdale City Council to consult with?
It may appear that this project will be 'too basic' for such a business as Worley Parsons. This hints that is will be over-engineered, and not at a cost befitting a municipal council. Viz;
Worley Parsons are described by the ABC as a 'global mining and energy engineering group'.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-25/worley-parsons-shares-pounded-on-profit-
result/6261680www.worleyparsons.com/GlobalPresence/ANZ/Pages/default.aspx
'WorleyParsons is the leading provider of professional services to the energy, resource and complex process industries in Australia...'
What do you see as being the key constraints at these boat ramps?
The issues would be the same as at many other boat ramps around Sydney, namely;
- The parking of boat trailers on grass - and in doing so, denuding the grassed areas.
- The constant arrogance of motor-boat owners who connect a personal hose to taps and meticulously wash down their craft, and selfishly do not allow me to obtain 5 litres of water to wash my sea-kayak.
- The constant littering of cigarette butts at boat ramp venues. Many Australians do not consider cigarette butts to be litter. This action is an acknowledged threat to avian and marine life, inclusive of the north-eastern corner of Botany Bay.
On week days this carpark and foreshore drive are empty. this whole project only benfits weekend usage.
this whole proposal basically is a Jet ski wet dream - boat ramp within throwing distance of a beach. you think the jet ski population there at the moment is bad wait till this is done and it will be a 5x more to deal with.
Currently they launch up the river further and leave a lot of the trailers etc at the ramp and drop the family off at the beach and it spreads them out down to sans souci.
Being able to park in one section will make the majority of them all just stay there as they will have convenient access to their cars.
We going to end up with a jet ski park extending from the rock wall to the pool with all the swimmers as well - be interesting to see how long after that it takes for a fatalaity.
Select to expand quoteRoar said..
On week days this carpark and foreshore drive are empty. this whole project only benfits weekend usage.
this whole proposal basically is a Jet ski wet dream - boat ramp within throwing distance of a beach. you think the jet ski population there at the moment is bad wait till this is done and it will be a 5x more to deal with.
Currently they launch up the river further and leave a lot of the trailers etc at the ramp and drop the family off at the beach and it spreads them out down to sans souci.
Being able to park in one section will make the majority of them all just stay there as they will have convenient access to their cars.
We going to end up with a jet ski park extending from the rock wall to the pool with all the swimmers as well - be interesting to see how long after that it takes for a fatalaity.
I would be stunned if there was not a jet ski lobby/vested interest behind this proposal.
They are the group with most to gain by a country mile.
For what it's worth I too filled in with a similar tone and sentiment to Shear tip. Perhaps also an approach by someone local with contacts to the Council might also be worth while?
Not really related to this topic, here are some old information, watch that video below in the first link, showing how dangerous of a windsurder and jet ski,
www.smh.com.au/nsw/jetskiers-want-to-roam-free-20120303-1u9lz.html
www.dailytelegraph.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Jet-SkisExclusion-ZonesPort-HackingBay-Surf/
www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/using-waterways/restrictions-closures/personal-watercraft-operating-areas.html
I might be wrong, I saw a "rescue" vessel patrolling at kyeemagh sometimes, and I guess he asked the jet ski to leave on one occassion.
According to the fourth link above, it said Botany bay is prohibited zone for jet skis, please correct me if I am wrong. Please check the map below
www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/maritime/usingwaterways/maps/boating-maps/9f-botany-bay-lower-georges-cooks.pdf
Hi
Great to see you all showed interest in this.
Well today is the last day to submit our views to the survey hope all of you have contributed to our sport if not thats ok you are all represented in our submissions.
I submitted my feedback but not sure what good it will do with council driving the initiative. Maybe we need to start campaigning for a jet ski exclusion zone in the sailing area of the bay.
RMS now controls the small craft and regs etc now under the NSW Port Authority. I thought one of the defining moments was when apparently a jet ski was driving between the hulls of a Manly hydrofoil, but stand to be corrected on this one. I have a problem with windsurfers being banned from large sections of the harbour when kayak's and paddle boards can go where they like. Kayak's and paddle boards also tend to get out a bit at sunset and sunrise and even in the hours of darkness and are very hard to see at night from a boat with the backscatter of the shore lights and the instruments on your own boat and often are not lit.
Looking at the Botany Bay boating map (www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/maritime/usingwaterways/maps/boating-maps/9f-botany-bay-lower-georges-cooks.pdf) there is a notification that "No power vessels are permitted north of the baths." And that appears to refer to the baths between President Avenue and Bay St. So, under existing rules, jet skis are not permitted in the Kyeemagh beach area where we usually launch in a Nor'Easter. This does not seem to be enforced now.
Presumably this exclusion zone will need to be lifted if the new boat ramp is built. It would probably be the RMS that has the power to change that zoning, rather that Rockdale Council. So, even if Rockdale Council is not swayed by our comments, the RMS might be.
I also submitted the survey, highlighting the dangers posed by increased jet ski numbers to swimmers, sailors and themselves.
I suspect that to get greater traction with council (or RMS) on this issue, we should be represented by one of the windsurfing associations or clubs: council might take that more seriously than individual comments. Peter
Hi Neptune59, yes it does say, north of the baths and as many of you have also pointed this out, but it is referring to the immediate section north of the baths, which is indicated with the yellow bouys to the north of the baths and 50or so meters from shore line and about 200meters along the north of the bath not the whole northern section of the Bay, I think this is right excuse me if I am interpreting this info incorrectly.
I hope that with our efforts in filling in the survey it will form a logical and legitimate view of how this proposed new ramp will effect many. It seems many of you have indicated the reasoning in the survey, which is great.
I also have proposed that there would be no boat or jet ski beach landing zones, no boat or jet ski water zones and the all important corridor path along the runway wall to its end.
I would expect a report to be compiled from the survey and submitted to the council and relative parties involved. If there will be such a report I think we could have a positive chance of a result that would see our views put in practice. Stranger things have happened.
Interestingly when I spoke with Colin Mable from Rockdale council, he did mention that they did canvas several sites for this boat ramp some where along Georges river section and utilise the Kurnell boat ramp more to its potential which has been updated last year, the comment was that these sites where deemed to far for the boat owners to travel to water.
Regards
Walt
Now that the comment period has closed at the Rockdale Council it time to hit the RMS.
I assume they would have to approve the boat ramp so lets make our views known to them.
www.rms.nsw.gov.au/contact-us/
Don't be lazy guys this is a great and convenient WS spot lets not lose it without a fight.
We are not asking anyone to ban boats or jet skis from the bay,just to control access for everyone's safety, by enforcing an exclusion zone.
Might be an idea to draft a stock letter which everyone can use as the basis for their feedback. Just to keep everyone on point and consistent in what is being asked for.
in addition, a petition may be worthwhile. I'd say that local sailing clubs, canoe, dragon boat may be sympathetic.
RMS social media contacts:
www.facebook.com/nswmaritime
Post your concerns & comments here.
The site is very public & legitimate issues are noted and acted on.
I will get contact details for their Botany 'Boating Safety Officer' & also Boating Education Officer.
Have spoken to them previously on jetski issues - they were well aware of the issues, sympathetic and work with Water Police on daily basis
cheers
Peter
A lot of the Kyeemagh regulars have been very quiet on this issue in the forum.
Hopefully they are letting Rockdale Council and the Maritime Authorities quietly know that they need to enforce a jet ski exclusion zone for everyones safety and that it will be a loss of amenity to windsurfers if this does not happen.
Here you go again lads;
www.rms.nsw.gov.au/contact-us/
haveyoursayrockdale.com.au/cookpark-boatramp/survey_tools/cook-park-boat-ramp-parking-area-survey
Thanks Pete, I was thinking of something along the lines of the message below.
I would like to express my concern re the potential dangers created by recreational jet ski traffic in the swimming and recreation area between the Brighton baths and airport runway at Kyeemagh.
The area is frequently used by swimmers, canoes, stand up paddle and windsurfers. The increasing number of recreational jet skiers in the area creates a potential risk of serous accidents and injury to all beach users.There are already frequent near misses and incidents with jet ski traffic in the area.
While the MSB boats often patrol and warn of unlawful jet ski operators, it is not possible for them to maintain the level of surveillance to keep the area safe. With jets skis begin used at speeds of up 100klm per hour it only a matter if time before a serous or fatal incident occurs.As a regular user of the beach
I would like to request that MSB considers a jet ski exclusion zone in the area within a zone from the tip of the southern end of the runway and Brighton le sands baths.The Botany Bay area is large enough to accommodate all forms recreational use. The exclusion zone would make it suitable all users to enjoy the area safely.
