All members welcome to committee meeting to be held Thursday 23rd July 7 pm My*Bar Hilton Hotel, 264 South Rd, Hilton.
We're putting together an events calendar for 2020/21 so come armed with ideas!
Hope to see you there!
Would be great to see some windsurfers from other disciplines there for this meeting other than the wavesailing crew. We are keen to get other types of events happening so would be great to have some representation from the speedsailing and slalom crew.
I can't make the meeting, but it would be good to have some discussion again re PFDs after our visit from officialdom at Middleton on Sunday. I just did a big post but the server crashed and I lost it so this is a test to make sure I can post to the forum. If it works, more info below..
OK, I'll try again....The current SA regulations require a PFD rated to 100 for all windsurfers (and SUPs!!) in open waters = anything other than a lake. I've had a look around at the options that are currently available and none is suitable for wavesailing.
1. Impact / flotation vests. These are padded jackets that quite a few sailors already use. There are similar models used by open water swimmers. They are comfortable, don't interfere with harnesses, allow you to swim easily, provide some impact protection, and enough buoyancy to help in tough conditions, but not so much you can't dive under waves. However, they are rated to only 50, so do not meet the current regs.
2. Waist belt inflatable PFDs. These are stowed in a little pack on a waist belt. When needed you pull them out over your head and inflate them. They don't take much room and they won't affect your buoyancy when uninflated. But... the waist belt would interfere with many harnesses, and trying to pull this thing on if you were struggling in 30kts plus would be pretty tricky. Once inflated, they are like those in aircraft. These are rated to at leat 100.
3. Jacket style inflatable PFDs. These sit over your shoulders like a waistcoat with straps at the back, front and around the middle. In principle, they look as though they would not interfere with harnesses, but the straps don't look very adjustable on most models so it's not obvious how well they would stay on in breaking surf. They inflate in place, so there is no problem there, but again they blow up like those in aircraft. They are also rated at 100 or better, and are the styles most used by ocean racing yachties for example.
When would you ever use these things? maybe if you are out the back and lost you gear or broke an arm or leg or something... The trouble with inflatable PFDs is that once they are inflated, there is probably nothing much more you can do other than bob around and wait to be rescued. It seems that you cannot swim long distances easily in them (although people have), but you'd be hard pressed to try to hang on to your gear at the same time, I suspect. And it would be impossible to safely negotiate breaking surf.
So what can be done? Ideally the regs should be changed to match the other states where you don't need a PFD within 400m of the shore (however that is measured...). A possible compromise would be to allow devices rated to 50 which would allow the impact / flotation vests, which I suspect would be more acceptable to more sailors (I'd use of them).
Hope that helps a bit for now...
Just in case anyone raises it, there is another possibility: the vests they wear when surfing / windsurfing massive waves like Jaws. These cost over $1000 and a re total overkill for the conditions we sail in. They are designed to get you to the surface when you are held down by 10m of roiling white water...
I'm happy to keep working this stuff up if we want to make a formal submission to the Department. I've been involved in drafting legislation as well as various rules and regulations over the years... not that I enjoy but I more or less know how it works...
Profian
good post, in the UK the wearing of pfds is not obligatory on the coast, the RYA do have recommendations though. I'm not aware of marine police in the uk so never come across this before, but saw them down at Seacliff about a month and a half ago, they watched what was going on then drove off north.
I was a member of a sailing club and did local sailing inland on a lake, it was accepted that in circumstances the floatation actually hinders escape when held down and whilst not perfect, any general harness was felt to provide some benefit and was acceptable instead of a full pfd and this was cross checked with the RYA for approval (as it was a RYA approved centre)
limiting use to within a certain distance of the coast/beach seems a good compromise and would align with other water users such as surfers, SLSC's.
The info I found is a little confusing.
Sailboards or kiteboards
SEMI-PROTECTED WATERS when less than 400 metres from shore must wear Level 50, Level 50S or Level 100 or above
SEMI-PROTECTED WATERS is classified as waters inshore of a line 2 nautical miles seaward of the low water mark of a coast or the banks of Lake Alexandrina and Albert.
Why stipulate 2 Nautical miles but then put a 400 metre restriction in there?
How far out would we be sailing?
400 metres from the lowest water mark on a 0.1 metre low tide at Seacliff for instance would be considerably further than a 2.1 metre high tide.
Neil Pryde make a High Hook vest. I have one but would hate to wave sail in it.
Forward WIP appear to make the most suitable PFD but even this looks a bit too cumbersome.
images.app.goo.gl/mFiBLRpPbeTEAssS9
Select to expand quoteprofian said..
I can't make the meeting, but it would be good to have some discussion again re PFDs after our visit from officialdom at Middleton on Sunday. I just did a big post but the server crashed and I lost it so this is a test to make sure I can post to the forum. If it works, more info below..
What did they actiually say to you re: vests?
There was already a voice against all this from the surf side and the Department said no, why would they care what 50 windsurfers think.
It's all about fining people, its always about fining people and raising cash in South Oz, like it has been since they blew out the State Bank.
Select to expand quoteChinny Oz said..
The info I found is a little confusing.
Sailboards or kiteboards
SEMI-PROTECTED WATERS when less than 400 metres from shore must wear Level 50, Level 50S or Level 100 or above
SEMI-PROTECTED WATERS is classified as waters inshore of a line 2 nautical miles seaward of the low water mark of a coast or the banks of Lake Alexandrina and Albert.
Why stipulate 2 Nautical miles but then put a 400 metre restriction in there?
How far out would we be sailing?
400 metres from the lowest water mark on a 0.1 metre low tide at Seacliff for instance would be considerably further than a 2.1 metre high tide.
Neil Pryde make a High Hook vest. I have one but would hate to wave sail in it.
Forward WIP appear to make the most suitable PFD but even this looks a bit too cumbersome.
images.app.goo.gl/mFiBLRpPbeTEAssS9
I'm pretty sure the semi-protected waters only applies to lakes. Anywhere in the Gulf and certainly on the ocean coast is unprotected / open waters, from my understanding.
www.sa.gov.au/topics/boating-and-marine/boat-and-marine-safety/marine-safety-equipment/carrying-suitable-safety-equipment
Protected waters
These include all inland waters, excluding Lake Alexandrina, Lake Albert and any other waters subject to tidal influence.
Semi-protected waters
These are waters up to two nautical miles from the low-water mark of the coast of main land South Australia and Kangaroo Island and from the banks of Lake Alexandrina and Lake Albert (and also the Coorong).Vessels under 8 metres
Unprotected waters
These are waters more than two nautical miles from the low-water mark of the coast and from the banks of Lake Alexandrina and Lake Albert.
Thanks, Russ - that info wasn't so clear where I looked it up - I can't find where now... but it also says that up to 400m offshore a PFD rated 50 is OK. This includes most of the impact / buoyancy vests, which I must say, may not seem to bad an option...
Here's the link to the PFD 50 info:
www.sa.gov.au/topics/boating-and-marine/boat-and-marine-safety/marine-safety-equipment/carrying-suitable-safety-equipment
and here:
www.sa.gov.au/topics/boating-and-marine/boat-and-marine-safety/marine-safety-equipment/personal-flotation-devices
and here is an update from 2018:
dpti.sa.gov.au/ondeck/news?a=389610
and summarised here:
www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/371066/MR1593-Which-LIfejacket-do-i-need.pdf
When searching online for PFDs it is usually clear what their rating is. Not so much with the Impact Vesta though.
I agree that an impact vest would be a better option - just depends whether it meets 50s standard.
I think these meet all the above
boatcrewgear.com/forward-sailing-wip-impact-pfd-vest-new/?sku=FS-GI1000001-XL&gclid=Cj0KCQjwla7nBRDxARIsADll0kCyhlsOUm7E7AeDiI9itMVZD3vnG_rhBc-JJ73W4qjPFbnzeh287F0aAq9bEALw_wcB
So, should surf ski's be counted too? Or paddle boards used by surf life savers? Where do they draw the line?
Select to expand quoterussh said..
I think these meet all the above
boatcrewgear.com/forward-sailing-wip-impact-pfd-vest-new/?sku=FS-GI1000001-XL&gclid=Cj0KCQjwla7nBRDxARIsADll0kCyhlsOUm7E7AeDiI9itMVZD3vnG_rhBc-JJ73W4qjPFbnzeh287F0aAq9bEALw_wcB
There is another model that is even lighter and a bit cheaper:boatcrewgear.com/forward-wip-flow-neo-vest-pfd/I have ordered one => stay tuned for a functional report. They look light and flexible: certainly many reports say that they are easy to swim in and they do not get in the way of harnesses. At 50N, it still should be possible for a strong swimmer to go under a wave or a sail. But I'll be testing it out before hitting the waves.
Select to expand quoteasdmuzak said..
Apparently this one would be ok.
It certainly meets the requirements - but if you look at pics / vids of how to use it, you wouldn't want to reply on it in typical wavesailing conditions => fiddly to put on in wind and waves, and 100N definitely wouldn't let you get under waves if necessary.
It's about keeping the dickhead inspector off our back.
This one meets the regs.
It's as stupid as the rules themselves.
