Yoohoo wind wave addicts,
What's the ratio surfers / Windsurfers / k1tsurfers at your local spot(s)?
Out here there seems to be tons of surfers, just about the same amount of k1ters (maybe more) and a handful of Windsurfers.
Wingers are still very few.
Local spot is wavy, choppy, mostly 15-20, sometimes 15-25 kts.
1.kite surf. 2. kite foil. 3. wing foil 4. windsurf. Local spot: onshore to cross on, wind from 15 -50 knots, wind swell from 0.5-3.5 m.
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..
Yoohoo wind wave addicts,
What's the ratio surfers / Windsurfers / k1tsurfers at your local spot(s)?
Out here there seems to be tons of surfers, just about the same amount of k1ters (maybe more) and a handful of Windsurfers.
Wingers are still very few.
Local spot is wavy, choppy, mostly 15-20, sometimes 15-25 kts.
Where are you? There used to be more kiters, less now. Same amount of windsurfers and surfers are rarely if ever out when kiters/windsurfers are.
1) Surf
2) Kite
3) Wing
4) SUP
5) Windsurf
Although these all change based on conditions plus both kites and windsurf being replaced by wings.
Choppy side on point break.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
1) Surf
2) Kite
3) Wing
4) SUP
5) Windsurf
Although these all change based on conditions plus both kites and windsurf being replaced by wings.
Choppy side on point break.
Kick him!
Off season only surfers maybe a few SUP's and now getting some people doing prone foiling. Which is just amazing to watch.
On-season mostly windsurfers, a few wingers, and kite surfers. The places that I go are known for being windsurfing only so other sports keep their distance. Just like if I take my SUP gear to a surfing spot then I go to a smaller break where there are no surfers. Kind of nice actually.
Before we had kids I lived in Mui Ne and it was kiters as far as the eye could see and only a few windsurfers. It was bedlam.
Interesting that Windsurfers numbers seem steady while others tend to fluctuate.
If more than 10 kts, then:
1. Kiteboarders
2. Foil kiteboarders
3. Wing Foil
4. Windsurfers
I've heard about some folks windfoiling, but have only seen once. More people switching from kiting to wing foiling (or starting from nothing to wing foiling) than anything else. Wing foiling seems to be creating some interest in windsurfing, again, too.
If less than 10 kts and waves...surfers, SUPs, SUP foil, then prone foilers.
1. Too many surfers no matter if there is strong wind
2. Kiters decreasing, wingfoilers increasing in same rate
3. Steady quantity of wavesailors but quite old. In winter less kites than wavesailors. In summer the opposite
4. Wave suppers
Surfers v windsurfers?
Well, surfers are young but windsurfers are crafty and have had their bodies hardened by a sport that basically consists of hours of stress positions.
I think the windsurfers would win.
Over here (the Netherlands) surf is dominating Sup. More interestingly it seems that Wingsurfing is taking a big bite out of both Kite- but mostly Windsurfing. I turn up on any given day and I might be the only windsurfer, the rest Wingfoiling. They seem to be having more fun, more time on the water and needing less wind to get going. Let's see where this will leave windsurfing in a couple of years..
Select to expand quoteChucufleta said..
Over here (the Netherlands) surf is dominating Sup. More interestingly it seems that Wingsurfing is taking a big bite out of both Kite- but mostly Windsurfing. I turn up on any given day and I might be the only windsurfer, the rest Wingfoiling. They seem to be having more fun, more time on the water and needing less wind to get going. Let's see where this will leave windsurfing in a couple of years..
Yes winging looks like fun. Not speedy but very turny. I stumbled on this vid yesterday of wind foiling that's just as nimble as winging:
Seems that wingers are steadily increasing. Only a light wind flat water thing at first, they now seem to go out even when windy and shore breaky. Also a mix of genders. They do tend to stay away from the waves or just pass through.
Select to expand quoteGasHazard said..Chucufleta said..
Over here (the Netherlands) surf is dominating Sup. More interestingly it seems that Wingsurfing is taking a big bite out of both Kite- but mostly Windsurfing. I turn up on any given day and I might be the only windsurfer, the rest Wingfoiling. They seem to be having more fun, more time on the water and needing less wind to get going. Let's see where this will leave windsurfing in a couple of years..
Yes winging looks like fun. Not speedy but very turny. I stumbled on this vid yesterday of wind foiling that's just as nimble as winging:
Better wingers are now getting pretty fast even on "turny" gear. The windsurf foilers in the video are quite slow.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..GasHazard said..Chucufleta said..
Over here (the Netherlands) surf is dominating Sup. More interestingly it seems that Wingsurfing is taking a big bite out of both Kite- but mostly Windsurfing. I turn up on any given day and I might be the only windsurfer, the rest Wingfoiling. They seem to be having more fun, more time on the water and needing less wind to get going. Let's see where this will leave windsurfing in a couple of years..
Yes winging looks like fun. Not speedy but very turny. I stumbled on this vid yesterday of wind foiling that's just as nimble as winging:
Better wingers are now getting pretty fast even on "turny" gear. The windsurf foilers in the video are quite slow.
Wings and foils are the future. Sails, boards and fins are slowly fading away from our beaches. Windsurfing is for rusty die hard fans like myself...
At least over here there are hardly any fin sup or foil surfers. Just fin surfers and many of them. So people are still attracted to regular fin surfing, whether short or long board.
There are about 5-10 wingers, 2 windfoilers, many kite surfers (100?) and a few kite foiler (4-5 when there's wind, more when light).
Windsurfers are about 10-30 depending on day. It's not so windy here though (except the last 10 days 
).
So there's a vibe about fin surfing that's lost with windsurfing. There's a community in surfing that's not there for windsurfing. Again at least over here...
I'm sure the simplicity of surfing has something to do with it. But windsurfing isn't that complicated, I mean compare to actual boat sailing you know... 
Select to expand quoteAnyway to be serious - I think winging has caused a resurgence in WS and KS
People with no watersport experience or returning to it after many years, are winging then when it's too strong they are noticing the other sports. They've never been to the beach in 25kn and are being exposed to the other disciplines now.
It's all good for everyone
I can't get away from the FACT that winging is / looks pretty limited ... What is going to keep everyone riding in 5/6/7 years - after they've mowed the lawn to death , and any rotations too dangerous foil injury wise for most ....How long can you be stoked on foiling gybes and tacks ? even at the top end - look at Balz muller - windsurf foiling he has 200 moves option , foiling .... 10 moves ?
SO .....
With that in mind - its not inconceivable that alot of Wingers (their 1st Watersport ). start looking to something with a bit more depth after a few years - maybe that brings new blood into windsurfing .... ???? possibly
I also think Winging has benefitted from a generational moment - ie the older guard windsurfing getting to 50's and looking for an easier sport / less harsh on the body ... and the 50's age group - having the money for foils/ carbon etc ... AND - the excitement being at the start of a new sport where standards weren't ridiculous ... The ability gap is already there though , ie loops / pocket waveriding beyond most wingers abilities now ( so the age old argument windsurfing got too radical will apply again) . For youth in winging - Im not seeing it around here - sports too expensive
Im a die hard windsurfer ..... I keep relooking at winging evolution. - and continually thinking ...... 'meh' ..... (despite lots of friends continually trying to convince me how its the real deal and windsurfing horse and cart ) .... even the cap verde event - with commentators ecstatic with such 'vertical riding ' when someones done a 20 deg turn ....... If I lived somewhere with marginal power wind or waves - I would be more inclined maybe to give it a go , just for TOW ....
damn...we thought the same thing...I thought I was an old surfer stuck in the past...over the years I've seen new sports sup, kite...they were here to stay and in fact they still are...everyone said they were the substitute windsurfing in places with little wind... but everything gets boring and if you move by sensations... windsurfing is the best (it's also more demanding) surfing is maintained above all because an old board and a swimsuit are cheap It's enough. The most important thing is to have waves.
Watching the videos from Cape Verde (I didn't even know there was a wing test there) I just saw how dangerous it can be to carry that knife under your body in a wave like that...I really wouldn't want to have an accident somewhere like morocco or cape verde.,...the hospitals there don't have the best pharmacy.i've had a few scares in waves with my little surfboard and windsurfing fins...the rock bottom is no joke.
Surfers because the wind has stopped and the surf has been good.
Wing numbers up, bang for buck, in lite wind.
Not into foils but enjoy seeing the continued development of ocean toys.
I'm happy to wait for 14 Knts to windsurf.
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..
At least over here there are hardly any fin sup or foil surfers. Just fin surfers and many of them. So people are still attracted to regular fin surfing, whether short or long board.
There are about 5-10 wingers, 2 windfoilers, many kite surfers (100?) and a few kite foiler (4-5 when there's wind, more when light).
Windsurfers are about 10-30 depending on day. It's not so windy here though (except the last 10 days ).
So there's a vibe about fin surfing that's lost with windsurfing. There's a community in surfing that's not there for windsurfing. Again at least over here...
I'm sure the simplicity of surfing has something to do with it. But windsurfing isn't that complicated, I mean compare to actual boat sailing you know...
Of all the things windsurf wingfoil sup etc. remember surfing is the most affordable for most people ,you only need board and a leash maybe a wetsuit to have fun until you get serious about it
Winging might look limited but it's not. The rotations aren't any more dangerous than windsurfing plus you can do them on flat water.
Would I rather be wavesailing? Yes definitely.
Unfortunately I can't wave sail without traveling at least 100km round trip for conditions that probably won't happen. But I can wing on wind swell down the street.
I don't see people who start with winging coming to windsurfing. It's just not going to happen unless they live in one of the few places with ideal wavesailing conditions on a regular basis.
Select to expand quoteseabreezer said..
I can't get away from the FACT that winging is / looks pretty limited ... What is going to keep everyone riding in 5/6/7 years - after they've mowed the lawn to death , and any rotations too dangerous foil injury wise for most ....How long can you be stoked on foiling gybes and tacks ? even at the top end - look at Balz muller - windsurf foiling he has 200 moves option , foiling .... 10 moves ?
SO .....
With that in mind - its not inconceivable that alot of Wingers (their 1st Watersport ). start looking to something with a bit more depth after a few years - maybe that brings new blood into windsurfing .... ???? possibly
I also think Winging has benefitted from a generational moment - ie the older guard windsurfing getting to 50's and looking for an easier sport / less harsh on the body ... and the 50's age group - having the money for foils/ carbon etc ... AND - the excitement being at the start of a new sport where standards weren't ridiculous ... The ability gap is already there though , ie loops / pocket waveriding beyond most wingers abilities now ( so the age old argument windsurfing got too radical will apply again) . For youth in winging - Im not seeing it around here - sports too expensive
Im a die hard windsurfer ..... I keep relooking at winging evolution. - and continually thinking ...... 'meh' ..... (despite lots of friends continually trying to convince me how its the real deal and windsurfing horse and cart ) .... even the cap verde event - with commentators ecstatic with such 'vertical riding ' when someones done a 20 deg turn ....... If I lived somewhere with marginal power wind or waves - I would be more inclined maybe to give it a go , just for TOW ....
I can't emphasize enough for you to give it a go.
And yeah, I'm one of those in their 50's with money to throw at the sport.
I'll just add, it obviously depends on how much sailing you need and what you get. If it's crap a lot of the time, then for many of us in South East Tassie, winging has really been beneficial.
I think foiling has actually opening up a heap of horizons. Waves I could never sail on a windsurfer because they're too round are now easily rideable when winging. Even for a muppet like me. The iffy winds we get in cross off conditions at my local are just brilliant for waveriding with foiling gear and a wing. Really good returns on time invested compared to windsurfing. I feel like a wave god when I'm on foil. I know I'm not.
I've never been able to consistently windsurf planing gybe but can foil gybe dead easy. Wave riding wind swells is easily possible foiling, but the rides you get on a windsurfer are very limited in comparison at my local spot.
Plus we have numerous days of sub 15 knot seabreezes. But that's right on for foiling and increasing TOW.
Don't get me wrong Seabreezer, wavesailing in perfect conditions is the pinnacle even for a gumby like me, but a foil just opens up options in stuff that you just wouldn't bother with if you only had windsurfing gear. Perfect wavesailing conditions don't poke their head up a lot here.
In terms of learning, I think winging has a quicker fun factor return for time invested as well. It took ages to get proficient at planing on a windsurfer but once you crack getting a foil airborne it's a hoot.
I too hope that lots of first time foilers look at wavesailing and decide to go next level into the waves.
Cmon, come over to the dark side .....
Hi
First of all, I respect all the ways to enjoy wind and waves. In my case, I've practised many different sports but in the nineties I discovered wave sailing, living in a place with few strong wind days but plenty of waves and some side shore spots. Maybe this combination is the reason why my passion for wave sailing has continued all this time. Always having fun and looking for more. The only reason I have learned windfoiling and now wingfoiling is being more summer days in the water. Freeride windsurfing and windfoiling have not keep my motivation for much time, and wingfoiling seems to be the same. In fact I don't find days to learn wingfoiling because I don't want to lose any wave sailing day.
In my case, wingfoiling does add a big amount of stuff in my car. Wing's backpack is huge, plus the foil and the board. Assembly the foil spends a lot of time, as much as rigging the sail. I prefer the traditional contact with the water while surfing. Getting into the water through wave sets must be more difficult with wingfoiling. Recovering from a fall in the middle of broken waves must be much more difficult. In side shore spots, if you have 14 knots and some waves I prefer to go float&ride than winging.
To sum up, for a wave sailor I only see the winging as a complement for flat days or non breaking waves. The pity is that young guys are going for winging instead of windsurfing because they prefer easy and fashionable things. We were lucky because we had only windsurfing, no other easy wind sport like kitesurfing or wingfoiling, that's why we spent enough time on it to become wave sailors, best thing in the world.
interesting sideshore ....
My point re same old same old with some of these newer sports .... A really good shortboard surfer here (say top few% in ability wise surfing) - he got into prone foil surfing - I saw him and his son last summer - on small beachie days - pumping all over the place and getting 4-5 waves in a row pumping and riding .... saw him recently - and was expecting him to be even more sold/passionate on foiling .,.. he was " nah .... it gets boring after a while " .... same lines etc - and he was doing some pretty good hacks on the foil .... with tiny prone boards ..... He is in his 30's - and just wants to focus on surfing .
I didn't get into sup foiling either -as the guys here seem to do the same lines every wave .... every day
I think these easier sports - in some ways are fools gold .... quicker progression , quicker plateau , less of a peak to climb ... And once you've had that easy progression - the time away from windsurfing will make it even harder ..... It will be interesting to see where winging is in 10 years .... and longevity of interest of guys riding now
Totally understand TOW aspect , crappy marginal days etc - if it gets someone on the water after a drive to the coast - or means TOW somewhere closer after work in the winter - that's a win .... Also think these newer sports have made people more satisfied with their 'home' conditions ...
For me ,.... I don't want to dilute my windsurfing and supping - love rails in water etc ,.... and hitting lips without a can opener .....
I don't think I'll be crossing over to the 'dark side ' , I would sooner get my hand lightsabered off and jump down a shaft .... NNNNOOOOOO
No comparison really.
I have been windsurfing, kitesurfing, surfing, sup surfing and lately wing foiling: I ultimately stopped kitesurfing all together as i couldn't freestyle anymore because of my knees and jumping quickly proved to be always the same and got bored out of it.
Lately i've picked on wing foiling; i'm already getting bored of mowing the loan, and jumps and freestyle tricks leave me unphased (when you used to do full on jumping and freestyle with a kite, doing it with a foil and wing feels un-impressive). The only area where i've found it interesting is when riding swell / the bay and waves that are not breaking / not surf-able, then it properly brings something to the experience and opens new possibilities.
But clearly i don't see it ever replacing proper surfing or windsurfing: The feeling of hitting the lip, rail-to-rail surfing, let alone tube riding and going for aerials is too addictive. A good windsurfing or surfing session will keep me frothed for weeks, it has that intensity that foiling just doesn't have... A good foil sesh will be forgotten in days.
I always say i'll drive 2, 3 hours return for a windsurf or a proper surf - i'll never do it for a foil.
Well summarized!
Regrouping the different aspects that can drive people to a sport or another:
- cost
- image / vibe
- gear
- thrill
- schedule
- spot
On an earlier thread I remember lots of folks complaining about how expensive windsurfing can be. Matching conditions and schedule is tough. Proximity of the spot.
Still to me image / vibe is probably the number 1 thing that drives people to a sport. Social aspect, marketing.
A counter example is dirt windsurfing. One board, one sail, can be done nearly anywhere. As safe or safer than riding a bike.
Maybe someone needs to bring that to a skate park to get the ball rolling. Backloop off the big bowl anyone!?!
Lately we've had a touch more wingers cruising through the waves. Although there's been lots of swearing and cussing involved. Waves being a bit smaller give them more confidence to come and play with the big kids!
