Which Board ? for side onshore days 90-95 lt

Hi there
I am looking for an onshore board (85kg) in the 90+ lt category for 4.5 to 5.7 sails mainly I have a fanatic grip 82 lt and i am very satisfied with its planning potential (great) jumping potential(very good) and waveriding (not the most radical but super).
I am looking for a good mix of early planning good jumps speed in the turn and good waveriding in weak onshore waves. I ve tried the super mini quatro but didnt like it .My options are Flikka custom 93lt 23 rocker not so good in tight back foot turns average control and not so good for aerial transition in the wave BUT good for early planning jumps very light 6 kg Witchcraft Reaper 93 not so gripy but good for jumps early planning fluid sytle in waveriding good for aerial transitions in the wave mainly backfoot waveriding Quatro cube 2020 93 or 98(not sure) pretty good in every aspect early planning jumps aerial transitions in the wave keeps speed in the turn power quad mode for waveriding back or front foot Great control in the wave or high wind
Thanks in advance

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Snapfigure said..
Hi there
I am looking for an onshore board (85kg) in the 90+ lt category for 4.5 to 5.7 sails mainly I have a fanatic grip 82 lt and i am very satisfied with its planning potential (great) jumping potential(very good) and waveriding (not the most radical but super).
I am looking for a good mix of early planning good jumps speed in the turn and good waveriding in weak onshore waves. I ve tried the super mini quatro but didnt like it .My options are Flikka custom 93lt 23 rocker not so good in tight back foot turns average control and not so good for aerial transition in the wave BUT good for early planning jumps very light 6 kg Witchcraft Reaper 93 not so gripy but good for jumps early planning fluid sytle in waveriding good for aerial transitions in the wave mainly backfoot waveriding Quatro cube 2020 93 or 98(not sure) pretty good in every aspect early planning jumps aerial transitions in the wave keeps speed in the turn power quad mode for waveriding back or front foot Great control in the wave or high wind
Thanks in advance

Since you like the Grip, what about Fanatic Stubby TE 89? I found the Stubby allot more nimble than the Quatro Supermini, which is a fun board but a bit dull perhaps for you?

About the stubby and parallel rails (narrow boards) Some thoughts from a very experienced guy
When the outline is rounder, wider mid section and narrower tail. that is why I call it a compact shape, not a stubby.To get planing you have a wider midsection and when going fast you use the narrower tail. And the rounder outline turns better.Basically the square stubby is a mistake. When you have a flat rockered windsurf board (compared to surfing), you need outline taper. Outline taper gives a bigger wind range and turns better. It was just for marketing, they are always desperate for something new. You also see these brands going back to round outlines now. JP already went back the next year.

About quatro "Quatro boards are pretty wave focussed for more ideal conditions" thats exactly what i am afraid of but taboul is the best quad fin boards shaper super mini was a breakthrough for quatro and onshore shapes The new cube is a combination of the old cube and old super mini(discontinued) the power quad speed turns claim from quatro even in onshore is a temptation (anyone feedback?)

About the bigger fanatic grip 92 Could be a very good solution i am not sure for jumps early planning but taking into consideration the smaller grip must be ok

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Snapfigure said..
About the stubby and parallel rails (narrow boards) Some thoughts from a very experienced guy
When the outline is rounder, wider mid section and narrower tail. that is why I call it a compact shape, not a stubby.To get planing you have a wider midsection and when going fast you use the narrower tail. And the rounder outline turns better.Basically the square stubby is a mistake. When you have a flat rockered windsurf board (compared to surfing), you need outline taper. Outline taper gives a bigger wind range and turns better. It was just for marketing, they are always desperate for something new. You also see these brands going back to round outlines now. JP already went back the next year.

About quatro "Quatro boards are pretty wave focussed for more ideal conditions" thats exactly what i am afraid of but taboul is the best quad fin boards shaper super mini was a breakthrough for quatro and onshore shapes The new cube is a combination of the old cube and old super mini(discontinued) the power quad speed turns claim from quatro even in onshore is a temptation (anyone feedback?)

About the bigger fanatic grip 92 Could be a very good solution i am not sure for jumps early planning but taking into consideration the smaller grip must be ok

That is a very broad statement & very subjective. In fact as far as it being a mistake, I think you are wrong. The parallel rail concept is firmly rooted in real world experience. Though the square nose may have fallen back out of fashion with some brands, the parallel rails & short tail remain - for instance the whole Severne line. The Fanatic Stubby has been tested & refined over several seasons now & still a favorite board for the Team in certain conditions. Adam Lewis even rode at Hookipa during the Aloha. The fact is stubby shapes work well, especially in crap conditions. They are an acquired taste though, that not everyone likes. Curvy outlines & pulled in tails will always have a place & definitely have a different feel. There have been some which seem to be very versatile shapes like the JP Ultimate, Quatro Pyramid & Goya Custom as well as your Fanatic Grip which all have a very tapered outline. Regarding Quatro I have talked to KT about the new Cube & one of the things he mentioned was more parallel rails & set back stance compared to last years shape. If you like the feel of curvier tapered outline & pulled in tail you will probably prefer a Pyramid or Goya, or of course the larger Grip. However, your first post specifically mentioned "an onshore board with early planning, good jumps, speed in the turn and good waveriding in weak onshore waves" ... These qualities perfectly fit the brief for boards such as the Fanatic Stubby, Severne Nano, or JP Slate... They may not fit your style or preference but IMHO they are no "mistake".

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gorgesailor said..

That is a very broad statement & very subjective.............................. These qualities perfectly fit the brief for boards such as the Fanatic Stubby, Severne Nano, or JP Slate... They may not fit your style or preference but IMHO they are no "mistake".

I am not argueing about that. This is just a statement from a well known respected shaper I dont have the knowledge to either agree or disagree with the word mistake. Indeed fanatic stubby jp slate are excellent for crap onshore conditions but they have some negative aspects IMO ex wind range very wide tail planning in lulls due to the narrow midsection BUT it could be a perfect option for the onshore crap i am looking for Personally i like more the curvier outline WIth fanatic grip i can do a full speed carving turn in the rails even in side onshore mush and due to the straight rocker speed jump high Planning ability is also excellent for onshore. The new quatro cube seems very good in both front foot carve turns (not 100% sure) or back foot tight turns with top speed in the turn capable of aerial transitions in the wave and with very good planning ability and jumps with TOP control in chop high wind .JP Ultimate, Quatro Pyramid & Goya Custom are for better waves not so good for onshore. Anyway thank you

German Surf magazine did test the 2020 Waveboards including Grip 92 and Cube 93.
The Cube seems a little better in onshore conditions regarding planing and drive through turns, the Grip turns a little better.

From my own experience I could recommend the Goya Thruster for what you're looking for. I use the 99 as my smallest board, having 91 kg.
The 99 liters never felt big powered up. The planing power of the board is amazing, perfect for onshore. But also turning quite well on pushing sideshore waves.
The 2020 Goya Custom 3 should have kept this characteristic.

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Snapfigure said..
About the stubby and parallel rails (narrow boards) Some thoughts from a very experienced guy
When the outline is rounder, wider mid section and narrower tail. that is why I call it a compact shape, not a stubby.To get planing you have a wider midsection and when going fast you use the narrower tail. And the rounder outline turns better.Basically the square stubby is a mistake. When you have a flat rockered windsurf board (compared to surfing), you need outline taper. Outline taper gives a bigger wind range and turns better. It was just for marketing, they are always desperate for something new. You also see these brands going back to round outlines now. JP already went back the next year.

About quatro "Quatro boards are pretty wave focussed for more ideal conditions" thats exactly what i am afraid of but taboul is the best quad fin boards shaper super mini was a breakthrough for quatro and onshore shapes The new cube is a combination of the old cube and old super mini(discontinued) the power quad speed turns claim from quatro even in onshore is a temptation (anyone feedback?)

About the bigger fanatic grip 92 Could be a very good solution i am not sure for jumps early planning but taking into consideration the smaller grip must be ok

Some interesting points in that description but also a lot I don't agree with.
The guy didn't mention the need for rocker lines and outlines to work together. You can't say that a tapered or curved outline turns better than a parallel outline without considering how it works with a certain rocker line.
There's also a bunch of things to consider with rocker lines. Tail rocker and tail kick are not the only thing to determine how early or late a board will plane and how well it will turn.
You need to think about entry rocker, nose rocker as well as where your flat sections and angle changes are.
All the elements of wave board design need to work together.
I don't think it's right to say a certain style of board is s mistake. Some are designed well and some are not.

cheers, Hoops

For side onshore days I'd recommend a Severne Dyno 95. They seem to have taken over on our beach as the board to have for just those conditions.
It's simply a lovely early planing wave board that is also surprisingly loose on the wave face.

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Snapfigure said..
About the stubby and parallel rails (narrow boards) Some thoughts from a very experienced guy
When the outline is rounder, wider mid section and narrower tail. that is why I call it a compact shape, not a stubby.To get planing you have a wider midsection and when going fast you use the narrower tail. And the rounder outline turns better.Basically the square stubby is a mistake. When you have a flat rockered windsurf board (compared to surfing), you need outline taper. Outline taper gives a bigger wind range and turns better. It was just for marketing, they are always desperate for something new. You also see these brands going back to round outlines now. JP already went back the next year.
.......

Those are interesting comments - but I wouldn't quite agree.

If you just look at the plan shape of the board then, for sure, having a wide mid section means the minute you bank the board over the buried mid rail acts like a brake in the water and the board turns towards that side. But a board will also turn on its rocker line and with good sailor drive and with narrow boards you just need to commit with your weight more.
So we might say that boards that are wider in the middle will suit those intermediates just learning to gybe and starting to turn on waves, and a narrow tail may help for better control.
Where the parallel-sided hull shape comes into its own is in being narrower overall, which makes it faster, and the short length is better for tighter carved turns and for backfoot 'pivot' top turns.

The early planing is not about overall board width some much as a function of the hull width further back, under the straps - and that's why stubbies often have a relatively wide tail which is then pinched in for the very rear section. A wide tail can still be just as fast but will also support sailor weight in the lulls and transitions. You can usually keep good control as long as you don't sail the board over-finned.

Early planing is also a function of rocker line, and of course about having sufficient board volume for the weight of the sailor carried (float!).
Plus early planing is always about sailor technique and if there's a move back to traditional (longer and wider) shapes that's perhaps because intermediates find the step down to a narrow board that is just 215cms long a bit too much .

Most of us are more likely to enjoy a board that is easier to sail but the more active sailor can still reap rewards from a more radical stubby or compact shape. A lot of the new boards also need to be sailed off the front foot more and they won't work so well with sailors who still like to drive a board off the back foot.

JP wave slate maybe a little better for jumps ( maybe goya is a liitle better for waveriding in better waves) could also be a good choice with 5 fin box Witchcraft Reaper is a very good option too(maybe better waveriding) in the slate stubby category (category of early planning less carving more fluid back foot waveriding style more jumping)

Mate you've got a fanatic you know and like just get the bigger version I'm sure it will have similar feel to your other one.
Reviews and tests are biased and subjective, most boards are good these days. If your going to follow reviews. list what's most important to your requirements in order of importance eg early planing, good top end and so on. Find the best reviewed match and go for it
Forget all this tail width measurements stuff.
Everyone is going to say how good their own board is as it's so subjective.

Sounds like snapfigure needs to take their fave board to a custom manufacturer and say "make me one of these but a bit bigger or looser or earlier planing" and be done with it.

It might not have missing parts, dry cloth sections, paint fall off, inserts pull or leak etc..... and might not cost $3000

Love that a small Italian Boardbuilder with global ambitions has come here and asked for advice with board choice, only to bag other established brands, shapers and manufacturers under the guise of a newbie initially and then to throw wicked witches and brooms into our faces when questions are posed...

Thank you all Happy New Year

Reasons for the 98
plus
-better planning ability
-Planning through lulls
-marginal winds
-Cube is the best in control in strong wind,chop and turns so few more liters is ok
-for sails 4.7 to 6 ideal
negative
2020 model less wavy than 2019 so compared to the 93 2020 it performs less on the wave but still very good (just 39 tail)

Reasons for the 93
plus
Better wave riding perfomance
Better windrange 4 to 5.7
negatives
-worse planning ability
-worse in planning through lulls