I have had this thought in my head for a while now and can't seem to solve it.
So as a bigger guy now 92kg (thank you Australia and the abundance of Smiths salt and vinegar chips and all that other stuff that I can't get my hands on. Otherwise I would be 88kg) my light wind board is a 105L. I see that some of the lighter blokes say 60 to 65kg, are also going out on 105l boards in light wind.
Just doing some quick maths for the 65kg rider there is 40L of buoyancy for his wetsuit and rig. But for me, there would only be 13L. Does that mean that I should be on a 132L board(my weight + 40L)? Cause I can float around on a 105L, I do need a little bit of wind and I would be working a little bit. I can't really float and ride but anything above 15 to 18knts and I think I could go out.
Just pondering how the whole buoyancy thing works. For you lighter blokes, in lighter winds what do you go out on? Would a 105l be too large?
Thanks for letting me ramble.
For me it is more related to the sail-size in combination with board volume.
I'm about 62-64kg and I have enough volume in a 77 litre quad board to comfortably slog, but a 5.3 sail feels a little too large for that board. So in lightwind I prefer something around 87-90 liters, mostly because they can carry a 5.3 sail with ease.
I have larger boards too, even a Formula board, but in waves I go more by the largest sail size that I want to use (5.0 - 5.3), and then find a suitable board for it. My smallest board (in waves) is a 62liter Evo, it works well for me in steady winds and around 4.7 sails and down.
I was using 75lt as my only wave board (+13lt over my weight in kg) and 4.8 sail as biggest, it was good enough for float and ride. Now i have a 82lt (+20lt) as my light wind board to have better planing to catch more waves and to be less stressed when the wind dies, but i didn't try it on waves yet so can't comment of there is any significant difference.
As SurferKris mentioned about sail-board combo, i don't like 4.8 sail with 75lt when powered up, another reason for me to get the 82lt.
I olso have a 94lt (+32lt) freeride board with 4 footstraps to use with 5.5 sail as light wind freeride.
When you think in percentages of excess buoyancy, heavier riders are at disadvantage with current "go to" calculation, can that be the reason why heavier riders plane harder?
For ex: +32lt is +%50 excess buoyancy of a 64kg rider but it is +32% of a 100kg rider, so lighter rider has 18% more buoyancy compared to heavier rider.
I'm your size with 105L as my biggest board for waves. If I could get a 120L that still turned and wasn't so buoyant that it was corky I'd get one instead then have a narrow 95L as my small board.
hello,I,m 68 kg... modern boards have a much more floaty and surfer shape that can withstand a lot of wind. Being a light weight surfer always gives you more advantage in destinations with little wind, where we usually have 5 boards and sometimes more...in my case...I get bored carrying so much volume +20 liters( small wave sailing)...with time, you You realize that you jump worse and, above all, your surfing improves by adjusting the liters more, early planing sacrificing.
I think that if you can, and you weigh + 90 kg, custom boards are always a winning bet.
I use a 101 litre board for stronger winds, 5.3m and below.
I'm 92kg but also haven't had the chance to sail that often, my lighter wind boards are 113 litre wave board and a 115 freeway, nearly the same size as my bigger wave board but much more difference in speed, it also carriers a bigger sail a lot nicer too and planes a lot earlier.
My mate who's 72kg uses a 92 litre wave board most of the time and always uses a metre less sail than me.
Another difference is that commercial boards tend to change in their design criteria with different volumes too, and seem to be aimed at someone at around 75-80kg in weight (irrespective of board volume). I once tested the whole Starboard Acid range in one day on the same sail (a 5.3), it was a good learning experience. The larger volumes seem more designed to work well i slower waves, while the smaller ones are more and more speed oriented. So for us lightweights the are few low volume options for mushy waves, and we end up using "too large" boards compared to our weight, in order to have a suitable shape. I guess custom is the only way to go for those that are on either extreme of weight scale (either the low or the high end).
One exception to the above has been the 62 liter Evo, I tested it on the same day as the Acid range, and the turning ability was amazing in comparison to the smaller volume acid boards. So the Evo came home with me on that day. :)
Yes in general big guys will have a lower volume to weight ratio than light guys. It can be as extreme as sinking to their waist while it'll pretty much never happen for light weights. Actually, it's one reason why lightweights get hurt more seriously.
Also generally a big guy will ride 90L with 4.7 in 25-29 knots while a light guy will use 75L with 4.7 in 18-22 knots and a 90L in 15-19 knots with a 5.x sail.
Multi fin can help big guys ride larger boards but the problem is that at speed 105L can feel a bit bouncy. Good for mushy waves but not when they have decent power.
I did use a 105L on stronger 1.5m but I'd stay clear of bigger sections. The rail just won't dig deep enough on the water.
Now for freeriding anything is possible. A friend of mine loves using 125L and nails his duck jibes. He does sail away from the waves.
Thanks, everyone.
Some very interesting information on what people feel comfortable with.
From a big guy's perspective, my main pains are getting the board going (time, experience, and better footwork would also be an advantage) and then keeping the board going. I end up bearing away a lot to keep the board going which limits the amount of fun that I can have in the waves. But the positive is that shore breaks never seem to be an issue (192cm really helps).
From a lighter rider, what are the advantages and disadvantages?
Being a heavy guy, too, ranging between 90 - 95 kg, i found that not only pure volume is relevant for slogging and planing but also volume distribution.
Being a Goya fanboy for many years i got several different shapes of them for my lightwind board, where the 2013 - 2019 boards were all kind of "volume forward" shapes in the 110 - 116 litre range, which felt ok for me, especially in thight turns.
Only thing i had to complain on this shapes was the fat rails in the mastfoot area, that felt bouncy on choppy wavefaces in bottom turns on fast side/sideoff waves.
When i got the 2020 One 115 with a "volume backward" shape, a kind of stubby in disguise, this board suddenly felt (too) big with all the width and thickness in the tail. So i changed to the One 105 and despite being 10 litres smaller this board felt right volumewise, while slogging and turning, But also still a little stiffer on thight turns on a wave than a pure waveboard so i changed to a Goya Nitro 106, a very stubbylike shape.
That shape is even wider and thicker (not on the rails though) in the tail than the One, and despite being quite narrow in the middle it feels fine for slogging and planing.
Maybe such a shape would overpower a lighter rider but i think this is the way to go for us heavier guys, powerfull tails.
With them we don't need too much volume and width overall, which makes the big boards not so nice turning on a wave.
I once had a Starboard Aero 127, one of the first big freewave attempts, but being 235 x 72 cm this board was akward on wave. With all that width it felt more like wrestling than waveriding, so it left my quiver fast.
I guess a big Kode etc. doesn't feel any better nowadys.
Great topic. Now, If you guys are heavy at 90-95kg I must be an elephant in a tutu, weighing in 100kg. I ride a Patrik 113 litre wave board which does the job in majority of the winds - float and ride 15 -20 knots, 20 to 25 knots it comes alive. Have only ridden it a few times over 25 knts in Sydney thanks to the crappy winds we have, but the board performed well for my weight and size. The magic for this board is fins, have played around with fin set ups on the board which has made a big difference depending on conditions. If was in 20 knts plus more often I would probably drop back to around 105 litres, if I could afford another board and sneak it into the shed.
a very important part is to know where you are going to surf with your board, not to be influenced by hookipa's videos...you can have a very flat board with volume that surfs really well. In my case, I hate volume backward, thick rails and wider tails (68 kg) which is beneficial from 90 kg.
Select to expand quoteheypressgo said..
Great topic. Now, If you guys are heavy at 90-95kg I must be an elephant in a tutu, weighing in 100kg. I ride a Patrik 113 litre wave board which does the job in majority of the winds - float and ride 15 -20 knots, 20 to 25 knots it comes alive. Have only ridden it a few times over 25 knts in Sydney thanks to the crappy winds we have, but the board performed well for my weight and size. The magic for this board is fins, have played around with fin set ups on the board which has made a big difference depending on conditions. If was in 20 knts plus more often I would probably drop back to around 105 litres, if I could afford another board and sneak it into the shed.
What are you running for fins? I'm similar weight once you look at how thick a wetsuit I need and I think my current 104L might be under finned.
Select to expand quoteHenners said..
From a lighter rider, what are the advantages and disadvantages?
I think that it is hard to imagine what it is like for others, with a different body weight, but I think us lightweights do have an advantage when it comes to plaining in light winds. We can use smaller sails and boards, and still plane early compared to heavier guys. I was recently out with a 5.3 sail on my 90 litre Cortex (in thruster set-up) and had no problems sailing against a heavier guy on an 8.5 sail and 120l free ride board. That's was an extreme case, and normally I don't feel like I'm planing particularly early, especially if I'm out on my own. It just feels "normal".
But early planning and high floaty jumps, might be some of our advantages.
When the wind picks up though it is another matter, us lightweights are then easily thrown about while heavy weights just seems to blast straight through the chop. For speed runs I use to use extra weights, up to 7kg, and it does make a big difference in board handling. The board really quiets down and it is also a lot easier to stay sheeted in with a constant trim. In terms of speed in open waters I went from around 32 knots, with poor control, to making 35knots with much better control. So disadvantages are high wind control and lower top-speeds (in high wind conditions) I guess.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
What are you running for fins? I'm similar weight once you look at how thick a wetsuit I need and I think my current 104L might be under finned.
I think necessary fin size is almost as much influenced by rocker and rails as by volume. With the Severne Pyro I find I have to over size the fins relative to the standard fins, and the stiffer the better. With the Quatro Cube I liked about the same size as the board comes with, and with a Flikka that I tried I ended up liking slightly smaller and softer fins (I ended up liking K4 fins the most on that board ) than either of the other two brands. All boards were similar volumes and sailed in mostly cross onshore conditions.
I forgot to add that the Flikka I'm referring to was a 5 fin board with a very fast rocker (#4). The first time I tried it I hated it but once I dialed in the fins I absolutely loved it. Earliest planing wave board I've ever used, glides through the lulls unbelievably well, and once I tweaked the fins was even more fun on the waves than my beloved Quatro Cube. #1 on my list for a replacement to the Cube if / when I eventually replace it.
Select to expand quoteAlexF said..
I once had a Starboard Aero 127, one of the first big freewave attempts, but being 235 x 72 cm this board was akward on wave. With all that width it felt more like wrestling than waveriding, so it left my quiver fast.
I guess a big Kode etc. doesn't feel any better nowadys.
I had the Aero 117. I think mine was the last year before it was merged into the Kombat line.
I hated that board. Would not plane and even on a wave felt terrible.
I've now got a 2021 Kode 125 L. I use it with a 7.0 in cross onshore and it's great for those conditions. Planes easily, holds its speed really well when riding DTL holding the clew open, and comes off the top really nicely. Took me a couple of sessions to adjust my sailing to such a big board but definitely better in light cross onshore than the 2014 Goya Custom Quad 118 or the 2016 Goya Custom Quad 116 or the 2018 Goya One 116 that I had previously (actually still have the 2016 116 as it's really good in cross shore conditions with a 6.5).
Select to expand quoteAlexF said..
Maybe such a shape would overpower a lighter rider but i think this is the way to go for us heavier guys, powerfull tails.
With them we don't need too much volume and width overall, which makes the big boards not so nice turning on a wave.
I definitely like big tails for cross onshore. The 2018 Goya One 116 wasn't powerful enough in the tail for cross onshore. Was nice in cross shore but as you noted above could quickly became bouncy in stronger conditions.
Select to expand quoteSurferKris said..
For me it is more related to the sail-size in combination with board volume.
I'm about 62-64kg and I have enough volume in a 77 litre quad board to comfortably slog, but a 5.3 sail feels a little too large for that board. So in lightwind I prefer something around 87-90 liters, mostly because they can carry a 5.3 sail with ease.
I have larger boards too, even a Formula board, but in waves I go more by the largest sail size that I want to use (5.0 - 5.3), and then find a suitable board for it. My smallest board (in waves) is a 62liter Evo, it works well for me in steady winds and around 4.7 sails and down.
Even though I'm 90 kg, I have similar findings. My board and sail combos are:
Cube 87 L max sail 5.0
Cube 98 L max sail 5.5
Cube 106 L max sail 6.0
Goya 116 L custom quad max size 6.7
Kode 125 L max size 7.0
If I was lucky enough to have a cross shore spot with a channel then I probably wouldn't need bigger than the Cube 106 and a 6.0.
I only use the Kode if it's cross on. If it's cross shore then I can comfortably slog out with the 116 and 6.7 in about 10-12 knots if the waves aren't too big.
The Kode will comfortably take a 7.5 with a big single fin on flat water but I did it once and haven't bothered since.
Advantages: early planing is the obvious one we enjoy, other than that not much except carrying smaller equipment.
Disadvantages: biggest disadvantage is its hard to find a board that suits our size. Strong winds (30+kt) are usually gusty and choppy, we get effected more by them. Need more technique when wave riding overpowered and if wave face is choppy.
Not sure if these are general for lightweights but just to add, wide tail boards don't work for me because i don't have enough leverage, olso thick rail boards bounce too much and need more pressure for bottom turns. For fins i like soft fins, and quads make the board more planted against chop or overpowered situations.
59kg. 100L freeride (RRD Firemove)is my largest windsurfing board. 6.5M sail and 11kt sustained is the lowest wind I can be constantly planing without having to work. Below 11kts I foil. Sustained 15kts the 86L and 5.2/5.8M kit is used. Bummer being a flyweight is +30kt sustained winds. Down to hook in and hang on and jibe in the "lulls" with a 76 or 78L board and 3.7/4.0/4.2 M. Realistically I'm beached for winds greater than F7. Getting too old. Really content with F5-6 wind.
Back to the original posters question I'd say a lot depends on your skill level. The rules for 70-80kg riders don't apply to heavier guys. First with the extra weight usually comes also extra height and a wider stance. This gives you more leverage compared to the lighter and generally shorter guys.
My go to for wave riding at the moment is the Severne Pyro 113. It's actually the only board I use in anything from 15-35. In the past I have used Dyno 115, Goya Custom Quad 118, JP Thruster 115.
The JP board is too far back and different as a shape compared to the newer boards. The Goya was incredible on a wave but had a defined top speed which wasn't that fast to begin with. Probably would define it as a float and ride wave board. The Dyno is great for early planing and does turn ok on waves but starts having it's draw backs once the waves get bigger. The Pyro feels like a refined version of the Dyno. Refined for wave riding. It need more work get planing but the acceleration and top speed beats all the other boards. I actually would say this is not just the fastest wave board I have ever owned but actually the fastest board overall. Add to that insane turning capabilities and it makes it a great choice for heavier weight riders in my opinion.
My weight is 115 @ 6'4". At my preferred weight of 100 I would use the 105 Pyro. As for your original question yes 105 is too large for a 65 kg rider. At that weight they'd probably be in the 5'4" and wouldn't have the leverage to or stance to adequately turn a board with 63+ cm width and a relatively wide tail. For wavesailing I'd say 80 liters is probably the top end they should use.
For slalom and race foiling things become a bit more complicated and what I said above doesn't apply.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
I'd be very interested in a Kode if I could trust Starboard construction.
As much as I love the performance of my Kode, I can't recommend the construction quality.
Select to expand quotestehsegler said..
My go to for wave riding at the moment is the Severne Pyro 113.
Is that a custom? I thought 105 L was the biggest Pyro?
Select to expand quotephiln said..
Is that a custom? I thought 105 L was the biggest Pyro?
I think they do them in small numbers. Maximum Surf in Germany has one listed as in stock on their web site: www.maximum-surf.de/2023-Severne-PYRO_1 . Great board IMHO.
Select to expand quoteSea Lotus said..
Not sure if these are general for lightweights but just to add, wide tail boards don't work for me because i don't have enough leverage, olso thick rail boards bounce too much and need more pressure for bottom turns. For fins i like soft fins, and quads make the board more planted against chop or overpowered situations.
The modern boards work better here I think. The Cortex for instance has a "short tail" i.e. there is not as much tail behind the fin as the older single-fin boards used to have, and the Cortex can quite easily be wipped around even for a lightweight like me. It helps to have the rear footstrap all the way back, the mastbase behind the center of the masttrack and fins forward etc. The side fins in multifin boards also help to keep the rail down, both in thruster and quad mode, I feel. Hence I can now use larger and wider boards (compared to single fin boards) and still keep enough rail pressure in the front side turns. So modern boards are much more forgiving in terms of using a larger volume board compared to what I was used to in the single fin era.
And yes, I think it is important to not over-fin the board once the conditions pick up, that is perhaps a lightweight "thing". I also like a little extra toe-in on the front fins, this makes the board turn more on the rail versus on the fins, to me at least.
