Hi everyone!
I'm kind of struggling with finding the perfect foil setup for my scenario and even after looking at lots of reviews I could not find a good answer for my question. I want to preface my question with the fact that testing gear is really hard at my location. There are only very few surf centers and pretty much the only testing option is renting gear. The problem with that is that the centers usually only have beginner gear from certain brands.
I'm progressing in wingfoiling to the point where I can jibe and tack in all directions, I can do downwind 360s and some other carving manouvers. I'm currently riding a seven seas 1400 from F-one in pretty much all conditions (10 to 30 knots). I really liked the Seven Seas for a long time due to it's ease of use and good low end. I feel like the glide is decent but I do feel like the foil is slowing down pretty rapidly when I depower the wing. Also the turning was nice when I initially upgraded to it from my beginner foil but I'm now starting to think that I have to press pretty hard with my feet in order to turn it on the roll axis and on high wind days, it's just to big for my weight (73Kg naked). I'd like to keep the Seven Seas for low wind days and get a new foil for around 15 knots upwards.
At home I'm only riding on lakes, sometimes we get decent wind swell (about waist high). On holidays I typically get similar conditions on the Mediterranean Sea.
I'm looking for the following attributes (compared to the seven seas):
- A bit faster
- More Glide
- Better Turning
From the F-One lineup I was looking at the eagle 990 or the sk8 1050 but I have no idea if those foils are going to tick those boxes. The real question I can't find an answer to is what people of similar skill level (or maybe slightly better riders, always looking to progress) are riding in those kind of conditions. Even if it's from a different brand, it would help a lot if I could get some insights. The reviews and tests are usually coming from people with way more skills or way different conditions.
What I've tested so far is the following:
- Sk8 850 -> Had around 5 sessions on it. Really loose, amazing turning. Had to focus really hard to keep it plain through chop, usually hard to get out of the water with my conditions and sometimes hard to keep foiling through lows.
- Axis ART 899 -> Similar experience to the sk8 850
- Seven Seas 1000 -> Close to what I'm looking for but I'd like a bit more glide and speed
I apologize for the huge wall of text and my subpar English. I'm hoping that the provided information is useful. I highly appreciate any hints, suggestions and advice!
That's a great question & very concise info about what you want. I have nothing to help sorry, however agree that finding the next progressive foil is always bit of a costly gamble esp as newer foils are seemingly launched every few months & usually hyped up by brand ambassadors & dealers. The latest one is never the one that fulfils all of the requirements unfortunately.
The 1400 is a massive foil for your weight even in light conditions but it is your baseline so you will need to work your way down. Even the 850 sk8 will eventually feel large enough in light wind but you will have to work your way down.
It's pretty easy for you if you already have fone. Just choose eagle for more glide or sk8 for little more turn and slightly less glide, both do both very well. For wing not dw or waves then sk8 will be the one to keep most wingers smiling.
I like the big eagles for dw with wing and the 690 for messing around in the flat.
Unfortunately, speed, glide (drag), and carving are competing priorities when it comes to foil wing design. You can choose any two, but you can't have one foil that does them all well. You could have a compromise of all three, but I don't think that's what you're after.
The only real solution is to have multiple foil wings and to choose depending on the conditions.
Personally I think a two foil quiver: low wind (good glide) and high wind (carving foil) provides a good balance. Of course you could have more foils, but then choosing between them becomes harder on 'medium wind' days.
Numbers can be your friend here. In general, going down in area will faster so you already have that sorted. Glide and turning fight with each other. Span and aspect ratio can help the glide but typically hurt the turn.
From the foils you listed:
The sk8 has great reviews as a surf foil but is not a glider.
The eagle will be a better glider, but will likely stiffen up at speed.
See if you can track down a Cloud IX fs850. That's a very surfy foil and it has respectable pump and glide for an 8.5 aspect ratio. 5 hole fuse for adjustability (my preference) or catalyst for dedication to glide.
I'm going to test the AFS silk range this week and know they will surf great, but will be watching their glide in waist high swell.
The new armstrong HA foils seem to be all the rage along with code right now. Those would both glide and turn assuming you get the shorter fuse and smaller tail setups. Kits in the 9.5ar range glide well and turn well (at slow speeds for me) but tend to get stiffer as the speed increases in my experience.
I'm a long time armstrong rider and of course love the new HA - but if i was to ride another foil it would be the F one - especially the eagle. But this is only from a Prone perspective as i've never winged it. Funny enough when i swap my armie out in the surf for my mates eagle it surprising how similar they are - no adjustment period needed at all and the eagle has better glide linking into waves and pump if i was to be totally honest. The Armie Ha turns easier though and is more "stable" easier to use.
So i don't think you need to change brands.
What about a bigger eagle - next size up. I mean you used a 1400 then tried an 850 eagle! That's a big drop in size hence the percieved difficulty trying to keep it plaining through the chop.
So i'd go one size bigger eagle myself than the 850. As i said you don't need to change brands. The eagle ticks all the three boxes you want, you were just on the wrong size.
There is the new 7 Seas 1100 that could be what you are looking for. I have tried the 1500 7 Seas and have the 1400SS that I know well. It feels very familiar but the glide, stall speed and early planing are all improved. SK8 1050 or 950 are options too.
Select to expand quotezebras said..Even if it's from a different brand, it would help a lot if I could get some insights. The reviews and tests are usually coming from people with way more skills or way different conditions.
What I've tested so far is the following:
- Sk8 850 -> Had around 5 sessions on it. Really loose, amazing turning. Had to focus really hard to keep it plain through chop, usually hard to get out of the water with my conditions and sometimes hard to keep foiling through lows.
- Axis ART 899 -> Similar experience to the sk8 850
- Seven Seas 1000 -> Close to what I'm looking for but I'd like a bit more glide and speed
I apologize for the huge wall of text and my subpar English. I'm hoping that the provided information is useful. I highly appreciate any hints, suggestions and advice!
Code r series ticks all those boxes
codefoils.com/product/r-series-front-wing/
The F-one Eagle 890 is perfect for what you want.
I am 85kg dry, sail on a large large that can have very good wind swell but gusty wind conditions.
I started out on Phantom 1480 then dropped down to the SS1200 which I absolutely loved. I switched to the Eagle 890 about 6 months ago and this foil is amazing - fast, awesome glide, turns just great. I use a DW210 if I want the extra glide on a downwind run or a chopped C200 monobloc tail if I want tighter, looser turns.
My current setup is a KT Dragonfly 7"4" 105L, 14mm 80cm carbon mast (really noticed better glide, acceleration and control when turning hard), Eagle 890, Strike V2 3.5, 4.5, 5.5 & 7m. In light winds (8-10kts) I can be cruising around on the 7m but anything over 10kts its the 5.5m which is much more fun.
The Eagle 890 has a suprisingly low stall speed once you get used to it and it pumps really well. The most fun is a downwind session riding the lake swell flagged out with a samll hand wing - the glide and pump is awesome. I have got rid of the Phantom 1480 and SS1200 as I have no need for a larger foil. I may be tempted by the Eagle X 700 as a foil for higher wind but the Eagle 890 is perfect for a 1 foil quiver. I'm keen to try either the DW170 or DW145 tails.
At you weight and if its for 15kts+ then you could also go for a smaller Eagle with a narrower wing span.
So many people tell me I won't like the Eagle but I keep hearing good things. Gotta try this foil!
Eagle is a great foil through and through. You need to also remember this was designed quite a few years ago, yet remains better than most other brands. A great setup would be a 990, with the DW210 stab, and you progressively chop the stab down. You'll get exactly what you're after. You can also start chopping the front wing too, a 990 - 920 is a very very good foil.
I'll just provide my really long winded perspective which probably isn't the norm. 75 kg, riding 4 1/2 years with a big emphasis on strapless flatwater freestyle stuff. I've been downsizing my foil sizes over the years like everyone else but not quite as aggressively. My daily driver for winds >15-17 kts is a Gong Veloce V2 L (90 cm span, 1150 sq cm, AR 7.5) and for lighter winds is the V2 XL Veloce (99 cm span, 1300 sq cm, AR 7.5).
I don't care how great the foil glide is or what my supposed top speed is, when I'm trying to glide for a long time with a large upwind component to the transition, that headwind is gonna slow me down really FAST,..and backwinded will never be as efficient as frontside. I need that extra low end (with a reasonable dose of glide) if I want to exit the move consistently on foil. If I wasn't doing all this upwind 360 oriented freestyle stuff, then those smaller foils (800 sq cm range) would work perfectly for me.
Strapless freestyle stuff; tack both ways right into jibe 360's, behind-the-back tack both ways, dog-walk tacks, behind-the-back jibes, backwinded 360's, sustained backwinded riding, Around-the-world 360's, starfishies, interrupted Heinie jibes to backwinded, combo moves like a Heinie jibe right into a behind-the-back tack or a duck jibe that rolls into a backwinded 360. Just learning a heel-side behind-the-back tack where you keep the wing flagged out and continue around into a full 360. Not easy. FWIW it's much easier for me to learn these moves on my bigger foil in 12-15 kts, than the smaller foil in more wind.
Axis ART pro 1051 for 74kg with a suitable rear wing for one's skills will work. I vary between the skinny rear wing and the 420 speed. Out of all the Axis foil wings the ART pros feel exciting with good speeds, glide and manouravability.
I still have other Axis foils but this is the best all rounder in all conditions from 11 kn to 30kn which is the max for me.
Demo if you can.
Select to expand quoteJoff said..
The F-one Eagle 890 is perfect for what you want.
I am 85kg dry, sail on a large large that can have very good wind swell but gusty wind conditions.
I started out on Phantom 1480 then dropped down to the SS1200 which I absolutely loved. I switched to the Eagle 890 about 6 months ago and this foil is amazing - fast, awesome glide, turns just great. I use a DW210 if I want the extra glide on a downwind run or a chopped C200 monobloc tail if I want tighter, looser turns.
My current setup is a KT Dragonfly 7"4" 105L, 14mm 80cm carbon mast (really noticed better glide, acceleration and control when turning hard), Eagle 890, Strike V2 3.5, 4.5, 5.5 & 7m. In light winds (8-10kts) I can be cruising around on the 7m but anything over 10kts its the 5.5m which is much more fun.
The Eagle 890 has a suprisingly low stall speed once you get used to it and it pumps really well. The most fun is a downwind session riding the lake swell flagged out with a samll hand wing - the glide and pump is awesome. I have got rid of the Phantom 1480 and SS1200 as I have no need for a larger foil. I may be tempted by the Eagle X 700 as a foil for higher wind but the Eagle 890 is perfect for a 1 foil quiver. I'm keen to try either the DW170 or DW145 tails.
At you weight and if its for 15kts+ then you could also go for a smaller Eagle with a narrower wing span.
Yeh intend to agree - the 890 is a good choice for an eagle. that's the one i've mainly used and the pump and glide is something else. It will take some getting used to.
Select to expand quotejonysan said..
SK8 950 with the new monobloc 161'W' Stabiliser. I think you will like this !!!
Can monobloc stabs be shimmed?
Select to expand quoteNikita said..
Unfortunately, speed, glide (drag), and carving are competing priorities when it comes to foil wing design. You can choose any two, but you can't have one foil that does them all well. You could have a compromise of all three, but I don't think that's what you're after.
The only real solution is to have multiple foil wings and to choose depending on the conditions.
Personally I think a two foil quiver: low wind (good glide) and high wind (carving foil) provides a good balance. Of course you could have more foils, but then choosing between them becomes harder on 'medium wind' days.
There's also pop to consider for jumping.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..jonysan said..
SK8 950 with the new monobloc 161'W' Stabiliser. I think you will like this !!!
Can monobloc stabs be shimmed?
No, they're fuse and stab in one. Hence monobloc.
If you want to shim, get an XS fuse, and C200/DW210 and cut either to size and shim away.
For pop you want Phantom -s, or if you can ride them, the escapes 530/630. They have crazy pop, and with v4 strikes height isn't a question.
Going to faster foils is always an adaptation, especially for take off. Stick with Fone, no need to change brands, they have good options. Eagle for glide, sk8 for turning as others have said. Choose the size of your next learning step by foil size - smaller will be a bigger learning curve, but stay relevant longer on your journey, bigger the opposite. Once you've made your choice, commit. There will be sessions where you really wished you just took your SS. The payoff will come, but you have to commit. Whatever you choose might not be exactly right for your style or conditions, but at this phase of your journey learning to master any of the foils being suggested here will be a very valuable development of your foiling skill.
Firstly I'd like to thank each and everyone of you for your detailed responses, I did not except so many and highly appreciate all of your advices. What I'm gathering from the responses is that the direction for me would indeed be eagle/sk8.
There is probably not one perfect size for either of them but I'd probably be looking at an eagle 890/990 or sk8 950/1050. I'm a bit worried that the eagle 890 is a bit small. With the 990 I have a bit more confidence that it could become my daily driver in not to much time.
I might just wait a moment and look if I can get a good deal for a used one of those. For the bigger sizes (eagle 990 or sk8 1050), can I expect those to turn better than my ss1400? The span is almost the same but since the surface area is quite a bit smaller, I'd think so.
The 890, at you're weight, should be your biggest foil, unless you're going in super light conditions.
I'm 83kg and ride sk8 1050/850 and want a 690.
Select to expand quoteMikedubs said..
The 890, at you're weight, should be your biggest foil, unless you're going in super light conditions.
I'm 83kg and ride sk8 1050/850 and want a 690.
What do you consider super light? I do go out on 8-12 knots days sometimes because we tend to not get more for weeks sometimes. People keep saying that they use 800s as their smallest foil and so should I and i find it really hard to believe. I'm riding a 60L board, so with wetsuit and everything about -20L to my weight. I can't imagine getting a 890 going in 10-12 knot Without huge pumping effort for each start. I'd say i'm decent at pumping my foil (i do lots of dockstarting and am used to light winds.)
However I have heard this from a lot of people so maybe i just need to try it. I still think a 990 might be the better option because the wind is usually pretty gusty around here and the additional surface will probably help getting through the lows.
If you find it hard to believe and feel like you should go bigger, then go bigger.
It's easy to have fun on a foil one size too big. It's miserable to be on a foil one size too small.
I can ride foils down to 550 but at the 800 mark there is a clear line that I've crossed where if I fall when tired the restart could be lost.
850 and 1150 is my quiver.
Not an Eagle 990 to your SS1400. Both are light wind foils.
Would choose the SK850 (or SK950 if you think the SK850 is too small). Keep the SS1400 for the sub 10 kts days.
Or maybe a smaller Eagle. But try to test first, I didn't like the Eagle, some love it, some not.
