I had the chance to see -not ride- this mid-length / hybrid beauty.
This one is 85L, 5'8' x 22'' , solid construction, low weight, compact and narrow shape. Duotone is hybridising their successful Sky Wing family with the new narrow & longer board trend. A board for all conditions.
VERY interesting, thanks !! As they show it on a booth there seemingly is a midseason release shortly to be expected !
outline wise it reminds me a bit of the Sky SUP,
but this one was based on an old step bottom shape.
Do you have a pic from the bottom shape or can you roughly describe it ? Will there be those usual 10l steps up ?
I rode the 5'8" x 22" @ 85l (with the Whizz 850 and 1000). tail has cutouts kind of like a windsurf slalom board. fun board... for me more of an everyday board shape... would like to try the smaller one. not particularly fond of the name, but I guess I didn't really like sky wing either or sky style... so I don't think it matters. good looking board. should be very popular. accessible and performs well. feels like a nice evolutionary step of the sky wing.
don't want to say too much about it before it's released but now that there are some pics on the inter webs....
www.instagram.com/p/C7OBNw8OYjZ/
www.instagram.com/p/C692LwLPYuK/
Select to expand quotesunsetsailboards said..
I rode the 5'8" x 22" @ 85l (with the Whizz 850 and 1000). tail has cutouts kind of like a windsurf slalom board. fun board... for me more of an everyday board shape... would like to try the smaller one. not particularly fond of the name, but I guess I didn't really like sky wing either or sky style... so I don't think it matters. good looking board. should be very popular. accessible and performs well. feels like a nice evolutionary step of the sky wing.
don't want to say too much about it before it's released but now that there are some pics on the inter webs....
www.instagram.com/p/C7OBNw8OYjZ/
www.instagram.com/p/C692LwLPYuK/
thanks for your input & clips !
My to go board is a 5.3 Sky Free @ 85kg mostly lake conditions and I was skeptical regarding the super narrow DW boards to fit my overall bill.
Do you know which other sizes eg one up will be available ?!
Is there an official release date we're heading towards ?
Bugger.... i reckon most of the midlength boards are too narrow and like most trends it will settle .... so i am starting a proto with just those dimensions
Not ahead of the pack like i thought i was gonna be 
20' is wide enough and stable enough and fast through the water, 22' looks to wide ffor a mid length. People like amos have been testing this for a couple of years with Bennetts, they should know.
Select to expand quoteMikedubs said..
20' is wide enough and stable enough and fast through the water, 22' looks to wide ffor a mid length. People like amos have been testing this for a couple of years with Bennetts, they should know.
according to the pic, taken from the video clip, there isn?t much left from a classic DW board. It?s more a planing hull narrowed in to improve displacement skills. And it?s only 85l, which we see here, I assume the width to grow at least 1cm per size.
I believe this board is more an aggressive evolution of the SkyWing family than pure mid-length
The problem with the skinny boards is the fear factor. Also your first few session can be challanging.
But then, it becomes easy. You just have to trust and believe. There is no going backwards.
That is a challenge for customers and shops, selling scary looking narrow boards.
I expect the less scary looking boards to sell better, but end up on the used market getting sold to the next guy not brave enough to believe.
Select to expand quoteDWF said..
The problem with the skinny boards is the fear factor. Also your first few session can be challanging.
But then, it becomes easy. You just have to trust and believe. There is no going backwards.
That is a challenge for customers and shops, selling scary looking narrow boards.
I expect the less scary looking boards to sell better, but end up on the used market getting sold to the next guy not brave enough to believe.
Exactly right.
Select to expand quoteDWF said..
The problem with the skinny boards is the fear factor. Also your first few session can be challanging.
But then, it becomes easy. You just have to trust and believe. There is no going backwards.
That is a challenge for customers and shops, selling scary looking narrow boards.
I expect the less scary looking boards to sell better, but end up on the used market getting sold to the next guy not brave enough to believe.
Hi Dwight,
appreciate your thoughts as always !
What is your experience through shaping DW boards and alikes - how much width is the threshold for significant efficiency losses for a 85kg rider ? Do I interprete you right that the Skybrid might already fall into the not brave enough customers category ?
In which conditions do you swap to as smaller or classic board or do you expect longer and slimmer to end up also in the sinker board ranges ?
Select to expand quoteDWF said..
That is a challenge for customers and shops, selling scary looking narrow boards.
I wonder how much that is a shop problem? I've been in a few stores that sell a lot of winging gear since last fall, and it was very hard to find any long and narrow boards. That includes shops in Florida, Hatteras, and Cape Cod. After years of "shorter and smaller is better", perhaps they had a hard time putting boards in the store that go 100% against this often-heard and rarely contradicted "wisdom". The new narrower (but not very narrower), longer (but not very long) will be an easier sell: "best of both worlds without the drawbacks". To what extend this is true is a different question.
In windsurfing boards, there were quite a few design trends that just went way too far. One was a similar "must be small" trend, that kept many windsurfers standing on the beach in lighter winds (that would have been perfectly sailable on larger, but not large, gear). A more recent one was "fatter and shorter is better". Looking at a freeride board test in the German Surf magazine, it seems that trend has finally run its course. All boards in the test were once again longer and narrower than a few years ago - and easier to sail for regular sailors, especially intermediates.
Looking at the images of various downwind boards, it seems there was a lot of copying going on - perhaps more than experimenting with different design tweaks. In particular, many tail shapes seem almost identical. Interestingly, nose shapes don't seem to differ much from each other, either, and are still very different from efficient shapes that are not meant to rise above the water, like race SUPs or kayaks. I think we still have a few years of evolution and significant improvements ahead of us.
I've been using the Naish 60L at my 80kgs for over a year as a one board quiver. It's 4'10 x 22". It feels a lot smaller due to very little volume up front and a pointy nose. Tbf it's a bit crap at getting up early but feels awesome in waves. I'm old and chubby and I find this board easy in all conditions. I don't consider 5'8 22" particularly favourable dimensions. Surely to feel the benefit of having the hassle of a longer board it needs to be 20". This board feels like it doesn't quite know what it is? A cynic may say a bit of clever marketing to sell boards.
Select to expand quoteFoxi said..
Hi Dwight,
appreciate your thoughts as always !
What is your experience through shaping DW boards and alikes - how much width is the threshold for significant efficiency losses for a 85kg rider ? Do I interprete you right that the Skybrid might already fall into the not brave enough customers category ?
In which conditions do you swap to as smaller or classic board or do you expect longer and slimmer to end up also in the sinker board ranges ?
My progression at 85kg, age 70, knees bad enough, I cannot sail on my knees anymore.
5'5 x 21.5 no magic
7'6 x 22.5 too big
6'8 x 21.5 easy, but wanted to find the limit
6'2 x 20.5 width easy, but length not as easy as 6'8. Prefer 6'8 because it has better momentum and pump than 6'2 length.
6'8 x 20.5 Thought this was the magic one, then decided to try find my limit going more narrow.
6'8 x 19.7 Current board and my magic happy place. Very easy. Can handle in any sea state and very light wind. It's 98 liters. My only board. I'm taking this to the Gorge next month. I can get on foil in 8 knots with a 6m Slick D/Lab with Code 980s. In Florida in 95 degree weather and poor air density. 6m is my biggest wing. I don't really care to go 8' x 18 to wing a 4m in really light wind. That much length, would hurt my all around range and fun factor.
My wife prefers the 6'2 length.
I think 6'2 to 6'8 is the sweet spot for "strapless" mid lengths wanting amazing range, on lakes, or ocean. I can see the under 6' mid lengths for strapped riders wanting to jump.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..DWF said..
That is a challenge for customers and shops, selling scary looking narrow boards.
I wonder how much that is a shop problem? I've been in a few stores that sell a lot of winging gear since last fall, and it was very hard to find any long and narrow boards. That includes shops in Florida, Hatteras, and Cape Cod. After years of "shorter and smaller is better", perhaps they had a hard time putting boards in the store that go 100% against this often-heard and rarely contradicted "wisdom". The new narrower (but not very narrower), longer (but not very long) will be an easier sell: "best of both worlds without the drawbacks". To what extend this is true is a different question.
In windsurfing boards, there were quite a few design trends that just went way too far. One was a similar "must be small" trend, that kept many windsurfers standing on the beach in lighter winds (that would have been perfectly sailable on larger, but not large, gear). A more recent one was "fatter and shorter is better". Looking at a freeride board test in the German Surf magazine, it seems that trend has finally run its course. All boards in the test were once again longer and narrower than a few years ago - and easier to sail for regular sailors, especially intermediates.
Looking at the images of various downwind boards, it seems there was a lot of copying going on - perhaps more than experimenting with different design tweaks. In particular, many tail shapes seem almost identical. Interestingly, nose shapes don't seem to differ much from each other, either, and are still very different from efficient shapes that are not meant to rise above the water, like race SUPs or kayaks. I think we still have a few years of evolution and significant improvements ahead of us.
My shop in Florida had a DW board on demo for over a year. Everyone tried it, but nobody bought it. It was too long for winging, and the SUP downwind market did not exist yet. They had a Cabrinha Swift on demo long before it was publicly released. I think the issue this past winter, was no mid lengths available from the mainstream brands.
I remember seeing the Skybrid tail bottom shape on Sky Wing/Style protos at AWSI in September 2022 or 2021 ... so wondering when the Skybrids were actually shaped... actually kind of impressive considering the lead time from design to production for a brand like Duotone, i'm guessing this shape is at least over a year old by now.
The Skybrid 5'8" rode very "normally". My everyday board is the Sky Style SLS 4'9" @ 65l. My AFS Blackbird 6'2" x 21" @ 90l has about 2' of board length in front of the front foot which is only maybe 5" more than my regular board, so while the overall length is much longer, the actual length in front of my front foot isn't that long and that weight is counterbalanced by length/weigh behind the foil mast.
Dwight obviously makes his own boards and pushes the limits of his designs. Other shapers have different approaches, and I suspect big brands will be a bit more conservative, but who knows.
Some interesting custom boards here in my home area... the board shapes/dims/bottom shapes are evolving week to week. If you want cutting edge, you pretty much have to go custom or niche... YMMV!
Dwight i am referring to mid lemgth in the sense of the new 5'2" to 5'8" offerings that are 19 to 20 wde. Not a foot longer as youre talking
I believe they are just a little too narrow and some really reslly good riders are asking me for a smidge more width
But of course whatever gives u the stoke 
Just a quick note here, obviously not impartial as I work for Duotone - but to give some perspective/answer some questions. We had some prototypes of the first Skybrids last year at the AWSI, R&D continued over winter and then went to mould building. We experimented with both narrow and wider shapers, deciding finally on the bigger boards (85L+) to go slightly wider and on the 2 smallest, narrower for more experienced riders.
Yes, there are narrower boards on the market, similar to what we have tested - have not ridden any of those, but our own narrower prototypes, whilst super easy to ride on pure flat water for experienced riders, were quite a handful in chop in terms of stability. The gain in starting speed was a lot smaller vs loss in stability.
I typically ride a 4'9" x 23.3" Sky Style/65L board, very rarely onto a 55L as most of my local conditions are fresh water and 4.5 Wing upwards. On Maui/Cape Town not an issue to ride smaller boards with stronger winds/salt water, but also here with bigger swell/chop and strong winds, it's always a trade off between ease of use and having a slightly smaller board for better manouvers. (My wing level is reasonable, doing some races/jumping/riding waves with 40+yrs windsurfing experience)
Looking back at all the shared experiences from Windsurfing, Kiting, SUP and now Winging, where everything seems to happen at Warp speed. - making products that are end user friendly, but still seen as innovative is always a fine line, I'd be surprised if too many "buying" customers find the 50&70L Skybrids too wide - and pretty sure that most riding the 85L and bigger will be stoked with the stability and starting speed - feedback so far from the samples out there is very good, but look forward to more input once more people have tried them. All the sizes definitely give the desired get up and go effect that mid length boards should do, vs traditional shorter and wider shapes.
Release date should be 3.7.24 btw
Select to expand quoteCraigGDuotone said..
Release date should be 3.7.24 btw
thanks Craig - will DPC in Torbole bei equipped right from the start or maybe even a tester could be found there upfront ?
what?s the size above 85 please ?
Hi Foxi, no problem - sizes are 55/70/85/100/115, 20/21.25/22/22.75/23.5"....normally not allowed to share those before release...but since they are new...
DPC should hopefully have some early July yes...
Some advice for those new to these boards.
Climbing aboard, feels like climbing onto a log at sea. Freak out is first reaction. Climbing aboard is the "only" learning curve in my opinion. If you want one, you stick to it, and learn the ways to climb aboard. Once learning that one simple skill, EVERYTHING else is easier. By a lot. Standing, getting on foil, upwind, downwind, touchdowns, pumping.
So don't freak out over your first attempt to climb on one.
thanks for the perspective Craig... always a good reminder that while forums like these are populated with riders from a variety of skill and experience levels, they can also sometimes be overweighted with technical perspectives, and many of the average customer/users out there don't nerd out on the minutia of board widths as much as some of us do. My wife is a perfect example... decent foiler... can get up and ride, jibe, switch feet no problem... is pretty efficient and can flag out and ride swell... she has no idea what foil AR does or why a board would be long and skinny... she's actually a great tester because she has no biases, but is pretty perceptive about performance differences between gear. Funniest gear observation from her ever was when we got our first soft handle wing (we started w/ the OG Foil Wing with boom) she said she hated the soft handles and that it "felt like carrying grocery bags"
Interesting to me that your developemnt/production cycle for the Skybrid was so short. Can you elaborate on the tail cutout shape decision as it's quite a bit different to what is out there now. Board looks great btw....and I had fun riding it.
Select to expand quotesunsetsailboards said..
thanks for the perspective Craig... always a good reminder that while forums like these are populated with riders from a variety of skill and experience levels, they can also sometimes be overweighted with technical perspectives, and many of the average customer/users out there don't nerd out on the minutia of board widths as much as some of us do. My wife is a perfect example... decent foiler... can get up and ride, jibe, switch feet no problem... is pretty efficient and can flag out and ride swell... she has no idea what foil AR does or why a board would be long and skinny... she's actually a great tester because she has no biases, but is pretty perceptive about performance differences between gear. Funniest gear observation from her ever was when we got our first soft handle wing (we started w/ the OG Foil Wing with boom) she said she hated the soft handles and that it "felt like carrying grocery bags"
Interesting to me that your developemnt/production cycle for the Skybrid was so short. Can you elaborate on the tail cutout shape decision as it's quite a bit different to what is out there now. Board looks great btw....and I had fun riding it.
board cut out is shallow and reduced to the end of the board tail.... so not relevant, just a gimmik to impress customers.
Two yers ago, I had a North Seek 2022 with a deep and large cut out....pointless, generates drag and extra weigth.
Cut outs are for true planning hulls, like windsurf boards with finn, to reduce touching surface at very high speeds.
I wing a homebuilt 7'7" x 20" 110L'ish. I know its not really a mid length but it works great. Cool thing about it is I can set wing in water downwind of it and climb on my board with both feet, using the wing as an outrigger to stabilize, stand up and uphaul wing into air in one easy(no knees) motion. When sea state is really choppy, I will revert to the stinkbug. These skinny boards are only tippy for a second or two before I start moving forward. The ease at which it travels forward adds stability instantly. I hardly ever even pump my handwing or foil. I just sheet in and foil comes up when I hit a certain speed. This board speed is crucial for riding smaller HA or MA foils. That being said, my next built will be similar dims to this duotone for bigger wind. The bigger boards do get blown around a little bit while flying when its really windy. Bigger boards help smooth out control inputs and feedback esp when flying small twitchy foils/fuses/tails. Here's a pic of my fugly 7'7".
The tail cutouts are not a gimmick. For fin sailors they are to increase top speed. For foiling, they have a completely different purpose.
Top windsurf foiling racer explains here how cutouts work for foil boards. Scrub to the 12 minute mark and start watching.
Select to expand quotesunsetsailboards said..
thanks for the perspective Craig... always a good reminder that while forums like these are populated with riders from a variety of skill and experience levels, they can also sometimes be overweighted with technical perspectives, and many of the average customer/users out there don't nerd out on the minutia of board widths as much as some of us do. My wife is a perfect example... decent foiler... can get up and ride, jibe, switch feet no problem... is pretty efficient and can flag out and ride swell... she has no idea what foil AR does or why a board would be long and skinny... she's actually a great tester because she has no biases, but is pretty perceptive about performance differences between gear. Funniest gear observation from her ever was when we got our first soft handle wing (we started w/ the OG Foil Wing with boom) she said she hated the soft handles and that it "felt like carrying grocery bags"
Interesting to me that your developemnt/production cycle for the Skybrid was so short. Can you elaborate on the tail cutout shape decision as it's quite a bit different to what is out there now. Board looks great btw....and I had fun riding it.
Glad to hear you liked it. Indeed the cutouts are not a gimmick and have a definite use/advantage, as DWF mentions quite different in some ways between windsurfing and winging in terms of reducing wetted/planing surface for windsurfing (for windsurfing fin boards it typically makes a board feel more free/looser once planing, with a slight disadvantage in getting planing - but this is then often combined with a very wide tail to compensate - there are many variations here, end goal is the same though). Patrik's explanation above is good, even if slightly more relevant for the wind foiling foils/boards, which are way bigger in the tail/longer fuselages/travelling at higher speeds.
But the cutouts definitely have a use, as in windsurfing, each brand has their own theory/approach, mostly with the same end goal though, many ways to get to the same result. But basically it is to reduce the area in the tail for getting up and going, this is also the reason we have the slighty wider looking tail vs some brands, but then combined with cutouts. So like this you get more stability when at very low speed/before foiling up, bu the same advantages of a narrower downwind style tail once you start moving so having less area behind the boxes to reduce drag and be able to push the tail down for the pumping movement- so slightly different to wind foiling.
ha, funny, would say the exact same thing about my wife, who was a boom/slick customer before, hated our Unit hard handles on the first day, by the second day did not want anything else..:-) so often in foiling you get really used to a certain product (sports in general), but then need time to adjust. For someone in R&D like myself, it's a constant issue to remind yourself that the product is not always something I will use/prefer, with such a big variety of boards/wings and foils -this is the reason we often use 2-3 different teams and locations to test our products simultaneously, to get a good balance of conditions and rider skill levels.
Select to expand quoteDWF said..
The tail cutouts are not a gimmick. For fin sailors they are to increase top speed. For foiling, they have a completely different purpose.
Top windsurf foiling racer explains here how cutouts work for foil boards. Scrub to the 12 minute mark and start watching.
?si=o_-nFQfv5ILYZHHs
Hi,
My sentence was "Cutouts are for true planning hulls, like windsurf boards with finn, to reduce touching surface at very high speeds"
A cutout in a wingfoil board is on top of a draggy foil base-plate and the planning hull only works for 1-2 seconds when a touch down.... so it is irrelevant, IMHO. A cutout has more sense in a board with Tuttle box.
More important than cut outs are the optimal tail kick, flat vs slightly rounded bottom and other approaches under investigation in the industry .... just check:
- Armstrong mid lengths with pin tails,
- Starboard X15 shapes with deep cutouts,
- Duotone with their successful flat bottom tails and sharp edges (since 2021)
- Ken Adgate boards with aggressive tail kicks + deep concaves from front to back (check Jonny Heineken boards)
- etc
.... All brands trying to find the optimal model. ;)
CraigGDuotone - in fairness to my earlier comment, the smaller boards you have 55 and 70L seem a lot better with the relative smaller widths. Still not sure about the larger ones - If someone rode a current 85L traditional "boxey" shape, maybe 5'4 24" 85L I'm not sure a 5'8 22" would make a huge amount of difference. It feels a halfway house but I could be completely wrong.
I recently bought this 2021 JP 6ft 8in x 26in x 96l which has a big step in the tail, blue area under the board plus tail and nose rocker. I was very sceptical thinking this board will be hard to get up on the foil in light winds, I was wrong .
I also have a 2024 Naish DW 105l 7ft 1in x 22.5in, and so far I can't tell the difference in getting on the foil.
I have done a few tests in wind about 8kn gusts using an Axis 1180 Spitfire foil wing on both boards with similar results.
So 2 completely different designs giving similar light wind performance ??.
Select to expand quoteCraigGDuotone said..
Hi Foxi, no problem - sizes are 55/70/85/100/115, 20/21.25/22/22.75/23.5"....normally not allowed to share those before release...but since they are new...
DPC should hopefully have some early July yes...
Marketing restrict new product info and launch dates leading to me and others give up hoping and waiting and jump brands. Thanks for info.
