www.fiveowindsports.com/store/pocket-wing
The pocket wing (or collapsible mini kite could be a good description) is now available for sale from Five O. They've got 4 sizes between 1.8 to 4.2. Interestingly there is hardly any description of the product. For such a different product it would be good to get a thorough explanation and possibly some how to vids. Hopefully that will be coming soon.
I read on the designer Sam Nokaoi's IG he confirmed that the pocket wing doesn't go upwind properly but can broad reach quite well, it's designed to be as minimalist as possible. Get you up on foil and send it down wind. I am definitely excited about this new concept. The potential is huge especially if they came up with one that would go upwind easily like a wing. I am excited to see how this unfolds and hope it gains some traction. Could be a great addition to the wing quiver as it would allow for proper downwind foiling without needing to buy an extra longer board or learn sup skills.
Here is a cool vid of Sam that really shows the potential.
I'd love to see someone do a pocket wing up on a DW board rather than using a paddle. This might be a great safety feature and aid for down-winding. Being able to easily pull the wing out of the foiling equation and bring it back in when needed is a great plus and selling feature.
Select to expand quotedejavu said..
I'd love to see someone do a pocket wing up on a DW board rather than using a paddle. This might be a great safety feature and aid for down-winding. Being able to easily pull the wing out of the foiling equation and bring it back in when needed is a great plus and selling feature.
Uh ? that's what they do
I dont see how different this is to a trainer kite for kids...just remove the bar.. shorten the lines and connect two mini bars instead...200 usd instead of 500? Sew a pouch on a belt.. or am I missing something?
Of course full credit to Sam for his trials and innovation!
Select to expand quotedejavu said..
I'd love to see someone do a pocket wing up on a DW board rather than using a paddle. This might be a great safety feature and aid for down-winding. Being able to easily pull the wing out of the foiling equation and bring it back in when needed is a great plus and selling feature.
There's a video on Instagram of Ken adgate doing just that.
Select to expand quoteMikedubs said..dejavu said..
I'd love to see someone do a pocket wing up on a DW board rather than using a paddle. This might be a great safety feature and aid for down-winding. Being able to easily pull the wing out of the foiling equation and bring it back in when needed is a great plus and selling feature.
There's a video on Instagram of Ken adgate doing just that.
Could you post a link to the video if possible? I had a look on his IG page but couldn't find it.
Select to expand quoteMProject04 said..
I dont see how different this is to a trainer kite for kids...just remove the bar.. shorten the lines and connect two mini bars instead...200 usd instead of 500? Sew a pouch on a belt.. or am I missing something?
Of course full credit to Sam for his trials and innovation!
Yes this thought occurred to me when I first saw the pocket wing a while back. I was even thinking of getting a small foil/ trainer kite and giving it a go. One issue however is that your standard trainer kite isn't designed to be used on water. They have a closed cell and can fill up with water and don't usually have drainage. A single skin like the flysurfer peak could be a good option.
I really like the pocket wing concept but am wondering a bit about the design. Why doesn't it use a typical foil kite leading edge with cells like a flysurfer peak? Surely that would greatly improve upwind. Also he doesn't seem to have a leash? Also is the 2 handle setup the best option, surely you could get it to fly nicely on a single boom/ bar.
one other potentially massive advantage would be if you have the pocket wing stashed away really well in the pocket it would make getting in and out through a shorebreak or breaking surf a lot easier.
Anybody have experience with these who can advise to the wind range for each size? I'm kind of curious to try one. Folding it up and stuffing it away seems a bit cumbersome though. Also, seems critical that wind and waves are aligned - hard to see it working very well cross grained, but maybe I'm wrong.
Select to expand quoteVelocicraptor said..
Anybody have experience with these who can advise to the wind range for each size? I'm kind of curious to try one. Folding it up and stuffing it away seems a bit cumbersome though. Also, seems critical that wind and waves are aligned - hard to see it working very well cross grained, but maybe I'm wrong.
I just got one and tried it once. It's a little tricky, harder to balance than a wing and can't really be pumped. I have a 3.4 and was close but couldn't quite get up in about 15 18 knots of wind on DW board and foil. No bumps when I tried, I think I could have gotten up with some bumps. The sock works well, fairly easy to stuff the wing and pull it out on or off the water. It's really compact and light so even if used along with a paddle it should be useful to get offshore to the better bumps rather than prone paddling for 20 minutes.. at least that's what I'm hoping, there is definitely going to be a learning curve first
flew the 4m on the beach. not a lot of power. owner said only for windy conditions (~20 knots+) and no upwind ability. still looks interesting though.
I was wondering about the upwind ability. But second video posted above sure looks like he's heading upwind at Kanaha nicely...
Select to expand quoteWindoc said..
I was wondering about the upwind ability. But second video posted above sure looks like he's heading upwind at Kanaha nicely...
I read on the designers IG he said it doesn't go upwind properly but can go at a broad reach quite well
Select to expand quoteJonahL said..Velocicraptor said..
Anybody have experience with these who can advise to the wind range for each size? I'm kind of curious to try one. Folding it up and stuffing it away seems a bit cumbersome though. Also, seems critical that wind and waves are aligned - hard to see it working very well cross grained, but maybe I'm wrong.
I just got one and tried it once. It's a little tricky, harder to balance than a wing and can't really be pumped. I have a 3.4 and was close but couldn't quite get up in about 15 18 knots of wind on DW board and foil. No bumps when I tried, I think I could have gotten up with some bumps. The sock works well, fairly easy to stuff the wing and pull it out on or off the water. It's really compact and light so even if used along with a paddle it should be useful to get offshore to the better bumps rather than prone paddling for 20 minutes.. at least that's what I'm hoping, there is definitely going to be a learning curve first
Great to hear some seabreezers have actually tried it! Definitely interested to hear your thoughts as you get more time with it.
Good to hear that stashing it in the bag works well that could open up another use for it as a form of backup propulsion. If you're doing a long downwinder or going further offshore with a paddle or wing this could be used as a backup if your gear breaks.
interesting to hear this is effective in higher winds only. That makes sense to me as it doesn't look like it could generate a lot of apparent wind or have good pumping. 20 knots is usually when the bumps start to get good anyway so could still be a good fit for purpose. If they came up with one that could be looped and sined like a kite then there would be some really good low end potential.
here is another vid where the rider uses it just to get up and then stashes it away in the bag and has a really good run
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..JonahL said..Velocicraptor said..
Anybody have experience with these who can advise to the wind range for each size? I'm kind of curious to try one. Folding it up and stuffing it away seems a bit cumbersome though. Also, seems critical that wind and waves are aligned - hard to see it working very well cross grained, but maybe I'm wrong.
I just got one and tried it once. It's a little tricky, harder to balance than a wing and can't really be pumped. I have a 3.4 and was close but couldn't quite get up in about 15 18 knots of wind on DW board and foil. No bumps when I tried, I think I could have gotten up with some bumps. The sock works well, fairly easy to stuff the wing and pull it out on or off the water. It's really compact and light so even if used along with a paddle it should be useful to get offshore to the better bumps rather than prone paddling for 20 minutes.. at least that's what I'm hoping, there is definitely going to be a learning curve first
Great to hear some seabreezers have actually tried it! Definitely interested to hear your thoughts as you get more time with it.
Good to hear that stashing it in the bag works well that could open up another use for it as a form of backup propulsion. If you're doing a long downwinder or going further offshore with a paddle or wing this could be used as a backup if your gear breaks.
interesting to hear this is effective in higher winds only. That makes sense to me as it doesn't look like it could generate a lot of apparent wind or have good pumping. 20 knots is usually when the bumps start to get good anyway so could still be a good fit for purpose. If they came up with one that could be looped and sined like a kite then there would be some really good low end potential.
here is another vid where the rider uses it just to get up and then stashes it away in the bag and has a really good run
?si=SHrf8z8_uzn5Z7cP
Hey Youngbreezy. There is at least one pocketwing on its way to Perth, so hopefully be some local knowledge on how it fits into our local downwind conditions soon.
Select to expand quoteDTee said..Youngbreezy said..JonahL said..Velocicraptor said..
Anybody have experience with these who can advise to the wind range for each size? I'm kind of curious to try one. Folding it up and stuffing it away seems a bit cumbersome though. Also, seems critical that wind and waves are aligned - hard to see it working very well cross grained, but maybe I'm wrong.
I just got one and tried it once. It's a little tricky, harder to balance than a wing and can't really be pumped. I have a 3.4 and was close but couldn't quite get up in about 15 18 knots of wind on DW board and foil. No bumps when I tried, I think I could have gotten up with some bumps. The sock works well, fairly easy to stuff the wing and pull it out on or off the water. It's really compact and light so even if used along with a paddle it should be useful to get offshore to the better bumps rather than prone paddling for 20 minutes.. at least that's what I'm hoping, there is definitely going to be a learning curve first
Great to hear some seabreezers have actually tried it! Definitely interested to hear your thoughts as you get more time with it.
Good to hear that stashing it in the bag works well that could open up another use for it as a form of backup propulsion. If you're doing a long downwinder or going further offshore with a paddle or wing this could be used as a backup if your gear breaks.
interesting to hear this is effective in higher winds only. That makes sense to me as it doesn't look like it could generate a lot of apparent wind or have good pumping. 20 knots is usually when the bumps start to get good anyway so could still be a good fit for purpose. If they came up with one that could be looped and sined like a kite then there would be some really good low end potential.
here is another vid where the rider uses it just to get up and then stashes it away in the bag and has a really good run
?si=SHrf8z8_uzn5Z7cP
Hey Youngbreezy. There is at least one pocketwing on its way to Perth, so hopefully be some local knowledge on how it fits into our local downwind conditions soon.
Hey Dtee that's exciting news! Please keep me updated I would be keen to hear how they go with it
Also looking for some feedback on these pocket wings. Could see real potential here in Norway for some fun on this without the hassle of a large DW board and paddle.
There is also a small French brand making a foldable wing which seems great upwind but I am a bit skeptical given how cumbersome it looks on the back but perhaps time will tell. Elvolve.fr
Another close up video shows pocket wing in action in the Gorge
www.instagram.com/reel/C7W0Zo5vnSB/?igsh=MXI0eG03MzI0eWEycQ==
I've been playing around with a cheaper 2.5m nasa star, EU based, less than half price, have to make your own handles.
www.born-kite.de/?language=en&cPath=21_23&cat=c23_Nasa-Star--5--Nasa-Star--4--Basic.html
My use case is a single broad reach out to sea on cross onshore days to make a good angle back downwind. I don't think this is useful for safety or upwind, here are some thoughts
Needs lots of wind, 15kn not enough, though it pulls hard
Launching a kite in very confused conditions while sitting is tricky. Easy when it goes right, but not always that easy.
Bridles have a habit of wrapping around the nose of long boards, need to shorten them. Shorter board easier
If the bridle gets tangled, hassle to unwrap in the water, kitemare
Kite is quite slow, tend to overtake it.
Standing on the board with only the kite pulling is tricky, harder than with a wing or SUP in messy conditions, this will be an issue for most people.
I'm tempted by a pocket wing as people seem to be having better luck
Another video of some success
www.instagram.com/p/C9KIAvpo7PA/?hl=en-gb
Select to expand quotecornwallis said..
I've been playing around with a cheaper 2.5m nasa star, EU based, less than half price, have to make your own handles.
www.born-kite.de/?language=en&cPath=21_23&cat=c23_Nasa-Star--5--Nasa-Star--4--Basic.html
My use case is a single broad reach out to sea on cross onshore days to make a good angle back downwind. I don't think this is useful for safety or upwind, here are some thoughts
Needs lots of wind, 15kn not enough, though it pulls hard
Launching a kite in very confused conditions while sitting is tricky. Easy when it goes right, but not always that easy.
Bridles have a habit of wrapping around the nose of long boards, need to shorten them. Shorter board easier
If the bridle gets tangled, hassle to unwrap in the water, kitemare
Kite is quite slow, tend to overtake it.
Standing on the board with only the kite pulling is tricky, harder than with a wing or SUP in messy conditions, this will be an issue for most people.
I'm tempted by a pocket wing as people seem to be having better luck
Another video of some success
www.instagram.com/p/C9KIAvpo7PA/?hl=en-gb
Interrsting video you just shared! Looks like (perhaps, just speculation ) the guy with the Pocket wing did an upwind run with a normal wing and then stashed that away in his backpack before taking the pocket wing of out for his take off. No paddle in his hands as far as I can see. Interesting approach but I guess at that point you'd have to wonder if maybe you should just learn the paddle pop-up?
I must have read something about the NASA kites not suitable for water? How is your experience?
Select to expand quotecornwallis said..
I've been playing around with a cheaper 2.5m nasa star, EU based, less than half price, have to make your own handles.
www.born-kite.de/?language=en&cPath=21_23&cat=c23_Nasa-Star--5--Nasa-Star--4--Basic.html
My use case is a single broad reach out to sea on cross onshore days to make a good angle back downwind. I don't think this is useful for safety or upwind, here are some thoughts
Needs lots of wind, 15kn not enough, though it pulls hard
Launching a kite in very confused conditions while sitting is tricky. Easy when it goes right, but not always that easy.
Bridles have a habit of wrapping around the nose of long boards, need to shorten them. Shorter board easier
If the bridle gets tangled, hassle to unwrap in the water, kitemare
Kite is quite slow, tend to overtake it.
Standing on the board with only the kite pulling is tricky, harder than with a wing or SUP in messy conditions, this will be an issue for most people.
I'm tempted by a pocket wing as people seem to be having better luck
Another video of some success
www.instagram.com/p/C9KIAvpo7PA/?hl=en-gb
Hey Cornwallis, thanks for sharing your experience. Does sound quite tricky!
I imagine the bridles setup on the pocket wing ( or similar kite) would be crucial to how usable it is. how easy they are to handle, how easily they get tangled or untangle, how easy it is to launch and relaunch. Ideally the bridles would be as short, robust and minimal as possible. Colour coding would also be very helpful for untangling. Can't see exactly what's going on with the five O pocket wing but hopefully will get some more info on it soon.
I just got a cheap second hand 3m trainer kite. I will try to rig it with the bridles directly to a bar. Not too sure if it will work as it's a closed cell foil kite and will fill up with water in a bad crash but it was only $50 so worth a try.
Trainer kites don't work that good , being directly on a bar they are too close to you , will not open correctly and move around all the time ( even on a skateboard ) . Not treated either to repell water once wetted they soak it up ! But they dry quick !
I have used Born Nasa wings as well and same problem , being monoskin they open easier but do not fly well as too close , the windflow is deflected by your body .
I recently received a 4.2 M pocket wing and 2.5, 4 and 5.5 NASA Star 5 wings. Of course as soon as I got them the wind has not been over 10 to 12 knots. Flying them both in light winds I noticed a couple of things. You can still steer the pocket wing when both handles are held together. The NASA Star does not turn if on handles and they're both together. The pocket wing is really easy to gather in and has a really shiny water repellent fabric. I find the NASA Star much harder to gather in on the bridals and does not Bunch up quite as small when it's been done. I found that the NASA Stars were much more steady and easier to turn and place in the wind window and pulled surprisingly hard for the size. I got the NASA stars to use on a mountain board on the beach when when I did not want to be using long lines. The 4 meter pulls hard enough to get me moving on the mountain board in 10 to 12 knots. Based on what I've seen so far it's unlikely I'll use the NASA Stars with my hydrofoil although I will give it a try. The pocket wing becomes much more stable once you learn how to fly it. To begin with I had trouble controlling it and then once I figured out how to deal with it and how to hold the handles it became reasonably stable and again pulls pretty good for its size. I'll be very interested to see if all this holds true in strong winds. Once I've had a chance to try it I'll come back.
Trainer kite useless, tried it, like a sea anchor once wet, doesn't fly from the hands well, doesn't pull when moving slow.
Hover62 very interested to hear how you get on. My experience matches yours entirely.
I think the NASA fabric might be too heavy, but not a disaster to get wet, water repellent enough
OTH it is designed to be flown on lines of at least a few meters. I wonder if adjusting the bridle lines of the NASA to fly happily with the handles together might unlock it, as currently they are too long, and don't fly well when close together. Minor adjustments to make this work but not easy.
Gathering NASA in strong wind is not easy, would definitely need to bear away to reduce the pull
I'll buy a pocket kite eventually, and try the NASA a few more times
You mentioned that the NASA star isn't designed to be flown off the bridles but that's not what it says in the description and in my experience flying them they work terrific off the bridles. The only downside in lulls the kite collapses downward to the ground. Maybe that's what you were referring to not flying well off the bridles . I would expect that the dropping in lulls could be stopped with longer lines . Since that only happens in light winds it's not likely to happen out in the wind you would use on a hydrofoil. Rarely does it drop below 10 knots in those conditions. Now that I have tried them on handles I will only use a bar in the future. I'm going to make a really short one and see if that solves the problem. Then it would allow you to steer it the kite with one hand. No significant wind forecast here for about a week which is always the case when I get something new and want to try it.
Yes that is what I mean, it feels like it would be happiest moving on a set of lines. I set it up on two handles like the pocket, and that helps because you can pull the tops of the bars to stop it backstalling, but then you need to be quite active in flying it.
In 15kn it is very stable, very easy to relaunch and feels viable, but somehow not quite enough pull.
The one session I had in 20kn the bridle got tangled and I couldn't sort it on the water, but it was because I had to paddle through surf.
Flying one handed doesn't seem possible as currently setup, and I think that is the key difference?
Well l find that flying the nasas one handed works fine but not on the bridles as the kite is too close to you so the air flow is disrupted by ones body so it collapses . That is on a skateboard or mountain board not on foil .
Flying on 3 lines , the brake line attached to my harness through the center of the bar and the fr
ont lines on the extremities of the bar .
But using two handles is easier on a foil than a bar but still very difficult to master ! Frankly not worth the hassle .
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..DTee said..
Hey Youngbreezy. There is at least one pocketwing on its way to Perth, so hopefully be some local knowledge on how it fits into our local downwind conditions soon.
Hey Dtee that's exciting news! Please keep me updated I would be keen to hear how they go with it
It's here. Fabric is very lightweight and it stuffs easily into the belt. Hoping I can figure it out on the river before the summer seabreeze starts. If I can get my prone up on foil with it, down winding will never be the same.
Select to expand quoteDTee said..Youngbreezy said..DTee said..
Hey Youngbreezy. There is at least one pocketwing on its way to Perth, so hopefully be some local knowledge on how it fits into our local downwind conditions soon.
Hey Dtee that's exciting news! Please keep me updated I would be keen to hear how they go with it
It's here. Fabric is very lightweight and it stuffs easily into the belt. Hoping I can figure it out on the river before the summer seabreeze starts. If I can get my prone up on foil with it, down winding will never be the same.
Super cool man!! Definitely excited to see how you go with it.
Select to expand quoteDTee said..Youngbreezy said..DTee said..
Hey Youngbreezy. There is at least one pocketwing on its way to Perth, so hopefully be some local knowledge on how it fits into our local downwind conditions soon.
Hey Dtee that's exciting news! Please keep me updated I would be keen to hear how they go with it
It's here. Fabric is very lightweight and it stuffs easily into the belt. Hoping I can figure it out on the river before the summer seabreeze starts. If I can get my prone up on foil with it, down winding will never be the same.
Hey Dtee did you get a chance to use it yet? If so how did you go?
Looks to me like the Pocket Wing is more of a cross between a kite and a mini parachute ie won't go upwind , maybe go cross wind but definitely more designed as a downwind specific item. Too scooped to go upwind, not aerodynamic enough.
I think the concept of a Wingfoil upwind - deflate/ pack up into backpack - pocket wing back downwind is definitely doable though, keen to try this on my mini DW 105L board
