Hey, I am 85kg [with wetsuit] and currently ride 5'0 85L board and my local spot gets very choppy with bigger wind swell. Sometimes I am really struggling with balance before I get going as the board is rocking in all directions as it floats right on top of the water. I was wondering if sinker board, like 60L, would not be easier as you can sink it under ? My friend is using 55l midlenght and doesnt struggle with the chop. What are your thoughts ?
You will struggle more with sinker in all conditions. Specially in choppy conditions. It way harder to balance on.
Pros and cons for sure. Some people will report that sinkers really help them in choppy conditions. I, on the other hand, at 86kg have no problem on a 90l but find a 66l to be mildly harder but not extremely worse.
I think it really comes down to what type of stabilization most people are comfortable with. Add in starting technique and kit priorities to get different reports. I never stinkbug, even on tiny boards, I just kneel on the board with the wing across the deck (forming a plus sign) and am incredibly stable in that position. Then I snap the wing up into my hands and am off to the races. The low volume midlength boards are great in strong winds but the neutral volume boards have much better slog, prone paddle, low end characteristics.
So, you might consider going to a longer board. A 5' 85l board is going to be far less stable than a 6' 85l board because the fore to aft stabilization needs are dramatically decreased.
I'm probably in a good position to reply to this. I tried Sunova Pilot and Sunova Pilot Midlength, both close to 50 litres. Both great boards. Stability was similar in both directions. I've gone the Midlength because of paddle speed for prone. For wing, pop up on foil is really good once board is on the surface, so I usually let it ride to the surface while on my knees before popping up. Touch downs are amazing on midlength. Beautifully balanced and very happy with the turning.
Back to your question.
When I bought my wing board the shaper told me to try a version with less volume as well. He was convinced that a board with 60 to 70% of your weight in volume is easier to control while starting (from swimming to standing on your board and moving forward at/near the surface). The idea is to take a low volume so you can push your board under the surface, so the surface chop doesn't pull on the board. You will need a serious difference between your weight and the volume off the board to reap the benefits. 10% under your weight will not do the trick,
I could only try that 60l board (I'm 86kg but have to wear full wetsuits most of the year) on a local lake, with consistent wind. Starting was reamrkably easy, but conditions were not challenging. At the end off the session the wind dropped suddenly and I needed to slog back. That was hard work because I was sinking to my knees and hips in the lulls (and I didn't have the skills to keep standing).
I decided then to go for a volume close to my body weight, which was on stock, as a 1-board-quiver. The first 3 sessions at rather turbulent waters were a mixture of pleasure and frustration. Frustration, because it was really hard to restart in the chop/current and the board kept corking away. I've heard some other local rider's swear and scream of frustration from corking boards.
In the mean time, my skills have improved and I also bought a board with 135% volume to weight (downwind SUP board). Because I don't need to restart as frequently, I love the weight-volume board for winging. I can kind-of slogg back with a little bit of wind and I'm better at (stink bug) starting so the corking isn't ruining my sessions. Because off the larger board I now would love to have a 50 to 60 litre board with a longer and narrower shape, instead of the board that is close to my weight. I'm convinced that it will be easier in the initial start and will be on foil with minimal extra effort. Only reasons not to do it are (1) budget and (2) slogging/paddling back in.
So, I disagree with "retina', but can not support my opinion with a lot of actual experience.
Im 80kg 3 years of wingfoiling wave riding, have 42l 54l 60l 85l 110l and 125l. My go to for easy start is 85l. In choppy conditions it's harder for me to get up on foil fast with sinker. One chop hits me while trying to balance on the sinker I loose balance and I'm down and have to go for it again. That almost never happens with same weight volume.
I recently aquired a 90L board (I'm 100kgs), where previously my largest board was 75L.
Fun thing is, both boards are the same width, but the 75L is 5'4 and the 90L is 4'10. I find the 75L way easier to get up and standing on, and I'm still on the fence about which one is easier to get up on foil. I also have a 5'0 56L, which is rather small for my weight and requires a lot of wind for me to get going (20+ knot gust with 750cm2 foil and 5m wing). Also really sinky when landing tricks so I basically never ride it.
For reference, the 75L is 25L below my body weight, same as the 60L would be for you. It was my only board for 2 years and really does not impact my low end performance in any margin over the 90L board I just got. I got the 90L board to have a little more float when landing tricks (flaka, jumps, aerial jibes).
I was talking with Greg from Omen and he said he thought that around .6 x weight in kg was the sweet spot (at least for the Flux), and that something just under your weight was harder
Similar story here. 96kg running the unifoil quiver killer 73L (5.10x20") as my daily driver and the qk 55l (5.6x20") for gorge days/prone. They are rebranded Portal Enigmas. If Unifoil ever get them back in stock would highly recommend.
@bwalnut, totally agree on the ~20" being a golden width, have demo'ed the armie ml 65 and 55 with <20" while doable wasn't ideal for my stocky build. Wondering if there is a correlation to hip width?
Filmed it instead of trying to explain it. I get asked for this often so I needed to do it anyways. Works with all wings, foils, boards, in all sea conditions and wind speeds.
www.instagram.com/reel/DEanJd9yzdP/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
I owned and tried a big variety of boards and as written before in various topics, length is imo way more imporant as volume for both stability when starting as in getting on the foil.
Longer boards allow shapes also to become less thick and that helps with balance as well.I,m 188cmx 97kg+ ad a full suit all year so surf ready realistcly 100kg (+) and I,m riding a KT5.4x22x56l Wingdrifter from 2022 and a 6.5x22x92l SuperK.
I owned and demoed shorter boards, but most of them are corky and have the tendency to flip under you when you try to balance them while kneestarting.
I,m as stiff as hell so the stinkbug doesnt work really for me. I just climb on my board nose half wind, wing Downwind, me sitting on my knees ass to the wind, face DW to the wing. I grab the wing at the fronthandle for balance as a seccundairy stabilizer and once i,m ready I pull it over my head and stand up.
This way i,m as quick standing on the 5.4x22x56l as with an Fanatic Easteregg4.11x75l and quicker on the foil.
btw: Regarding boardwidth: I think there is a corelation between rider skill, weight and especially length.Being tall I have a higher centre of gravity. I tried various 18/20 and 22 to boards and for ME the 22 are more comfortable without the downsides as the 20,s. I can totally see that for someone around 165 and close to half my weight (lets say 50kg) 18 will be perfect.
Bryan
I watched your video and explanation and it's pretty much the technique I've worked out since Ive dropped to sub 20" wide boards.
I went out today and reconfirmed by kneeling with my knees side by side and holding myself steady by pushing down on the wing on the water, pointing downwind a bit longer than usual, just relaxing and waiting for a good gust instead of trying to spin the board across the wind (where you usually get whacked by a chop, wave or swell).
When the gust is enough to put pressure in the wing, pull wing overhead, get a little bit of forward motion for stability, then spin the whole rig across the wind, get up to my feet and pump board/wing as needed.
The key tips you gave that helped me refine my technique were
- keep board pointed downwind, straddle the board, then draw knees up and under
- holding the wing flat on the water and staying relaxed pointing downwind
- yes, there is a moment of instability when you go to lift the wing, as suggested, make this movement as smooth and as quick as possible
- once the wing is in your hands, if there is pressure in the wing, you can turn across the wind and stand up and get going
Mistakes I made were
- not pointing directly downwind and getting pushed off the board by chop
- trying to turn across the wind too quickly, or without enough forward board speed, once again you are vulnerable to being pitched off sideways
Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to make this little tutorial
Am i the only one that doesn't like the longer and narrow(er) boards? Yes they come up foil fast and yes the glide is awesome. But i'm a jumper and i simply miss a stable platform to land on. I've been riding a KT Ginxu V2 in 62L for a while and because its pretty narrow in the nose, after a jump or freestyle move, it just doesn t bounce back on foil. Its a great board for waves and free Flying, but thats it IMO.
I now have a new Gong Lemon FSP ' 25 on order. 4'10 and wide in the nose. It might come up foil a little less early then the KT, but i dont care.