Wing foiling waves with 100cm mast.

Can anyone provide pros or cons with regards to wing foiling in waves with the 95cm or longer masts?

DTee has summed it up well.
I think the biggest downside is point number one. Getting out through the shore break will be harder with a longer mast.

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JonahL said..
Another con: worse roll response

This is the biggest con IMO. Way slower rail to rail.

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bolocom said..

JonahL said..
Another con: worse roll response

Mine is 935 not 100 but I think there are all advantages, except for water depth and super light wind. Once you get use to riding higher, roll response is the same. In larger surf it gives you a lot more room.

Have you used both long and shorter masts in the surf?

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KB7 said..
I switch between a 795 and 935 mast depending on the days wave size, sea state and wind speed.
Under 20 knots and smaller than overhead waves I prefer the 795 mast especially with the ML board. It's easier to stay in the power zone when flagged out and rail to rail turns are quicker and smoother.

Over 20 knots and +overhead waves or confused sea state I run the 935 mast. So much better control dropping in to big waves much easier to handle the power and high speeds with no fear of a breach. Long bottom turns feel easier to control. Going upwind in heavy seas just set the ride height and crank it, the board never touches.

I don't see any need to go longer as here on the east coast it's a rare day to have bigger than double overhead rideable conditions.

I have same set up for masts (Armie 795/935). Fully echo KB7's points. Also have an Omen 87cm mast that is a great compromise for winging in all conditions. IMHO going over the 935cm length dulls responsiveness enough that I'm not interested in riding longer at this stage.

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dorothyinste said..

bolocom said..

JonahL said..
Another con: worse roll response

Mine is 935 not 100 but I think there are all advantages, except for water depth and super light wind. Once you get use to riding higher, roll response is the same. In larger surf it gives you a lot more room.

Have you used both long and shorter masts in the surf?

Yes I use 75 for DW and surf and 84 and 90 for wing. We get large lumpy waves a lot so I agree with the pro arguments, but I have also felt the limits of the 90. One thing that has happened to me is getting low on the mast in a bottom turn can get you stuck on that turn and unable to transition in time to the top turn side causing an ejection out the back. My 84 also has a shorter chord and is a lot more responsive. I do prefer the 90 in flat water for speed run type riding and it would be better for scary big waves where turns are pretty minimal.

I think some people perceive the roll change differently and that taps into how your bodies muscles like to move rail to rail, slower and more powerful with longer masts or faster and twitchier with shorter masts.

At the most basic level the longer mast requires a greater distance of travel to go rail to rail, so you can never get toeside to heelside as quickly simply because the distance traveled is further.

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BWalnut said..
I think some people perceive the roll change differently and that taps into how your bodies muscles like to move rail to rail, slower and more powerful with longer masts or faster and twitchier with shorter masts.

At the most basic level the longer mast requires a greater distance of travel to go rail to rail, so you can never get toeside to heelside as quickly simply because the distance traveled is further.

If you ride high on the mast it should be the same. I like a 50 fuse with shorter mast for sup foiling in the surf, feels loser. And 60 fuse for winging, with chopped 140 tail and 780 580 or ma 800 front wing if overhead. These setups feels quick and loose, maybe the 935 mast balance everything out. just wish the new ha's had the speed of the old ones. (Armstrong)

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dorothyinste said..
Can anyone provide pros or cons with regards to wing foiling in waves with the 95cm or longer masts?

I frequently switch between 103cm and 95cm masts for winging in waves. The short mast is easy to get used to, just fly the board a little lower. Going back to the long mast usually takes me about 5 or maybe 10 minutes to get used to the longer mast, then it can be a lot of fun. The long mast is obviously better for riding in confused seas. But I guess you are more interested in what happens on wave faces.

If you are a front foot biased rider, then you probably naturally carve turn by leading with your upper body, then hips, then front foot, and the foil follows. So to S-turn, the process is repeated each way. And if doing this with a long mast, then there will be a delay to get your body up-and-over from one side to the other. Most riders wont like this added delay, but I think there is another way.

If you get a hydroplane which steers rapidly in response to roll change (eg. just rocking your feet/ankles), then you can plan your turns a little earlier and counter-steer the foil out to the opposite side you want to turn, while you body is more stationary. As your body falls in the direction you want to turn, you begin to roll the hydroplane back and start carving the turn. It only works well if the hydroplane quickly generates horizontal lift when rolled to the side. I find it helps if I think about my foil travelling over a lot more water than my body. Make the foil do the distance. I feel that the longer mast helps to keep higher water speed over a small foil. I cannot imagine it'll work with a slow or wide span foil. Or a hydroplane where you need to lead with your body and front foot to turn it.

One other thing I notice with a long mast, is that in confused or messy waves, if I'm riding low on the mast at some point, with the hydroplane quite deep, then the water is often moving differently own there to what I'm seeing on the water surface, so pitch/lift changes can be a little unexpected. If I go from say an 85 to 103cm mast, then this effect is very noticable. It reminds me to keep the hydroplane closer to the surface.