Assist and foiling etiquette

Good points. Slower craft always have priority. Body surfers are at the top of the food chain.

Thanks Chris great info

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sweats said..
www.instagram.com/p/C6RSWR4oCk4/?igsh=MWk1MzRrcHp1cGRnNQ==

As a group we are trying to promote good Foildrive etiquette in Cornwall, to minimise any issues over the coming summer months.

Hi Sweats,

Your point 4 implies that it is ok to be in a surf lineup on a foil drive efoiling. I guess this is the single bone of contention for both sides of the argument. You guys make up the community there so its up to yourselves to set the guidlines but in Aus surfers are not going to tolerate the noise of one efoiler in the line up with his prop going in and out of the water. Now what about when it is 5 foil drivers in the line up or at some popular breaks more, is it still ok, I would say the answer is no categorically. Even if it were only 5 foildrives efoiling around a single break with no surfers you can see the potential problems amongst themselves.

Point taken. It does imply that it's ok to efoil near the line up which is where trouble will occur and has occurred locally. I'm not the author. I will feed this back. Please feel free to raise any other issues. We are keen to try and prevent any kind of local foil ban.

Foil assist self regulation is not working IMO, just check the webcams on surfline of popular SE QLD spots for evidence of foil assist users in the lineup on a daily basis and they come in groups now and numbers increasing weekly and some even post their videos on youtube and here of them doing just this.

There is a pro foil assist community and a pro normal foiling community, and from what I observe, they are two different communities within foiling.

I think the pro normal foil community has too much to lose from all of us being banned from the lineup to rely on self regulation by foil assist community.

In the Gold Coast (QLD) all jetskis (PWC) are not allowed except when it's big and beaches are closed. In NSW foil assists are regulated as a PWC, hopefully QLD will follow suit very shortly and regulate all foil assist as a PWC, otherwise we may all be banned shortly.

What are the rules the foil assist community are self regulating too (if any):
- foil assist users have no right of way in the lineup (shouldn't be in the lineup with others)
- they should not use it around other foilers, surfers, wingers, windsurfers or other water users and remain a 200m distance even if not using the motor
- learn the sailing rules and right of way when using around boats, kite surfers, wind surfers and wingers etc
- don't forget the 200m rule

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noepoxy said..
Foil assist self regulation is not working IMO, just check the webcams on surfline of popular SE QLD spots for evidence of foil assist users in the lineup on a daily basis and they come in groups now and numbers increasing weekly and some even post their videos on youtube and here of them doing just this.

There is a pro foil assist community and a pro normal foiling community, and from what I observe, they are two different communities within foiling.

I think the pro normal foil community has too much to lose from all of us being banned from the lineup to rely on self regulation by foil assist community.

In the Gold Coast (QLD) all jetskis (PWC) are not allowed except when it's big and beaches are closed. In NSW foil assists are regulated as a PWC, hopefully QLD will follow suit very shortly and regulate all foil assist as a PWC, otherwise we may all be banned shortly.

What are the rules the foil assist community are self regulating too (if any):
- foil assist users have no right of way in the lineup (shouldn't be in the lineup with others)
- they should not use it around other foilers, surfers, wingers, windsurfers or other water users and remain a 200m distance even if not using the motor
- learn the sailing rules and right of way when using around boats, kite surfers, wind surfers and wingers etc
- don't forget the 200m rule

You have made some valid points for sure. The 200m rule is a bit harsh for foil assist. In WA the DoT has a set of rules specific to towing in with a JetSki and that is 200m from any other water activity but for foil assist it's probably a bit more than necessary.
In WA the DoT has a specific set of rules for electric foil boards. The rules don't make any distinction between full Efoil and foil assist and I doubt the DoT is really aware of foil assist just yet. The rules state that all Efoils need to be registered and display registration numbers ( required for all motorised vessels of any HP in WA) , riders must wear a life jacket at all times. If operating further than 400m from shore must have life jacket, plb or epirb and flares or Electric emergency lights signal. The fact a foil assist is a motorised vessel definitely puts them into different category in WA. So far I haven't seen any foil drivers that are registered or have rego numbers or safety equipment. The requirement to carry safety equipment is also in place for kiters, windsurfers and wingers as well but very few carry it either.
Noepoxy I think your right there's always going to be a core crew that does the right thing but if we think we can trust every hyped up punter on the Goldy that's just dropped $12000 on an electrified foil board to self regulate we're kidding ourselves.

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if we think we can trust every hyped up punter on the Goldy that's just dropped $12000 on an electrified foil board to self regulate we're kidding ourselves.

basically this but with propellers

Rather than kill their own golden goose, FD and the other efoil manufacturers need to be more proactive around marketing their product as a tool for (a) learning to foil, (b) downwind foiling with or without a paddle, or (c) foiling large unbroken waves well before they pitch and can be surfed with a standard board. They might sell fewer units in the near term by focusing the application, but it will benefit them in the long term. Nobody wins if efoils or foiling gets banned and FD and the efoil companies won't benefit if prone foilers and regular surfers resent them. Nobody is going to buy these things if they are banned or resented.

How about no FD or efoil videos in breaks where an experienced rider can chip in? One look at FD instagram and over half of it is waves that those same riders could have chipped into. Why bother promoting that kind of thing? Posting a video on a punchy wave or a techy air on a crubling peak is an easy way to get the cheap "likes", but that isn't the right use for this tool and it is going to build long-term resentment.

Focus the marketing toward the use cases that promote long-term growth, not short term unit sales.

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hilly said..

Velocicraptor said..
Rather than kill their own golden goose, FD and the other efoil manufacturers need to be more proactive around marketing their product as a tool for (a) learning to foil, (b) downwind foiling with or without a paddle, or (c) foiling large unbroken waves well before they pitch and can be surfed with a standard board. They might sell fewer units in the near term by focusing the application, but it will benefit them in the long term. Nobody wins if efoils or foiling gets banned and FD and the efoil companies won't benefit if prone foilers and regular surfers resent them. Nobody is going to buy these things if they are banned or resented.

How about no FD or efoil videos in breaks where an experienced rider can chip in? One look at FD instagram and over half of it is waves that those same riders could have chipped into. Why bother promoting that kind of thing? Posting a video on a punchy wave or a techy air on a crubling peak is an easy way to get the cheap "likes", but that isn't the right use for this tool and it is going to build long-term resentment.

Focus the marketing toward the use cases that promote long-term growth, not short term unit sales.

I ride using a Tow Boogie now. This is already in action:

zerotow.gorgias.help/en-US/500890-e6fd1a6746e3421594ccc9e864aa426a

That is an impressive commitment, in a very positive direction, from Mark and the tow boog team.

Now if we can get the same from the foil drive team and their ambassadors that would be a massive forward step for all of foiling in general.

Just thought I'd chime in as someone who was an early adopter of the eFoil who has been through the rigamarole of the Nanny State nonsense

This topic seems to be a bit of a ticking bomb

In WA, if you want to go by the book, then technically since you have to register with the DoT at a state level and there is no clear delineation of an 'assist' - the local lows for pretty much every coastal council in the metro area actually would not allow you to even walk into the water as your motorised board is deemed a 'vessel / boat' and they are only allowed to launch from a designated boat ramp - not a beach

Oh and also you have to abide by the speed limit too - which is 8kn within 200m of the shoreline

Stirling would be the most scrutinised and I have definitely entered the water in front of beach inspectors / lifeguards in other council areas with no fuss, but I generally keep a low profile and have no interest in foiling where there are people or surfers

I'm like 90% downwinding these days and am very conscious how much attention these things draw, but again I have almost always used it to get where other people aren't and I'm in Perth where the waves are garbage

I have foiled in SE QLD / NSW and seen how crazy it gets although 200m away from a break to me seems a bit much, and the comparisons to a PWC are not fully relevant either

A jetski moving at speed is a big chunk of metal that can do real damage if it hit someone, plus they are loud and obnoxious

A prone / SUP foiler could just as easily smash into someone too

So other than the exposed prop and the noise which would be a nuisance sure, if someone on an assist is wearing a leash I don't think they should be near the line up, but I do think they can ride closer than 200m to others

Anyways, back to the 'rules'

I just checked and a recent addition from the DoT requires a lifejacket to be worn at all times - even in flat water which is kind of annoying!

Honestly in the last 4 years and hundreds of sessions, I've had like 3 interactions with water police and seemingly only when they are bored and out of curiosity - I don't even currently have stickers on my board either even though it is registered

And on that note, I'd be more concerned about the significant uptick in crew who are wake thieving nowadays and the implications that has

I'm still surprised something hasn't been said yet (that I am aware of) as the majority of the action in Perth takes place literally right in front of the water rat HQ

Doesn't matter if you are on a Foil drive / eFoil or dock starting on a Maccas tray, but it is whacky races on the Swan River sometimes and eventually someone is going to get cleaned up by a boat

A surfer getting hit in the line up is one thing, but an incident on a busy marine traffic lane is something that will draw a lot of negative attention to foiling in general and could result in ridiculous over correction like in Sydney

Not all the action happens in the ocean.

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hilly said..

noepoxy said..
Foil assist self regulation is not working IMO, just check the webcams on surfline of popular SE QLD spots for evidence of foil assist users in the lineup on a daily basis and they come in groups now and numbers increasing weekly and some even post their videos on youtube and here of them doing just this.

There is a pro foil assist community and a pro normal foiling community, and from what I observe, they are two different communities within foiling.

I think the pro normal foil community has too much to lose from all of us being banned from the lineup to rely on self regulation by foil assist community.

In the Gold Coast (QLD) all jetskis (PWC) are not allowed except when it's big and beaches are closed. In NSW foil assists are regulated as a PWC, hopefully QLD will follow suit very shortly and regulate all foil assist as a PWC, otherwise we may all be banned shortly.

What are the rules the foil assist community are self regulating too (if any):
- foil assist users have no right of way in the lineup (shouldn't be in the lineup with others)
- they should not use it around other foilers, surfers, wingers, windsurfers or other water users and remain a 200m distance even if not using the motor
- learn the sailing rules and right of way when using around boats, kite surfers, wind surfers and wingers etc
- don't forget the 200m rule

I had a look no one was doing anything wrong. Looks like the self regulation is working well.
Rather than making grandiose statements provide some evidence.

You didn't look too hard. I'm constantly seeing foil drives in the lineup on GC spots.

In NSW efoils and Foil Drives are PWC's with exemptions. all other conditions apply
www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/waterways-safety-and-rules/emerging-technologies/motor-powered-hydrofoil-board
Also in NSW Tow Boogie are prohibited to use.
www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/waterways-safety-and-rules/emerging-technologies/remote-controlled-or-autonomous-towing-drones

It's probably because there is a big push by surfers. Totally agree! I was driving 65km /h yesterday and a dude on an electric scooter with only a bike helmet was trying to pass me .

Yes ! 100% !! If you have a motor , of any sort, you should be well away from anyone else. There's just no need. And I say that as a Foildrive user . Just be somewhere away from everyone else so it simply isn't an issue. Enjoy your own space , where the concept of a "lineup" becomes irrelevant. That was always supposed to be the promise of foiling , but lately there has been a bit of "scope creep" and riders have started to stray into the same spaces as other water users. Some of the social media footage posted ain't helping.
You could probably expand that to not foiling around others generally, whether powered or unpowered. Prone foilers will probably disagree but I'm not one so I have no dog in that fight. But what I will say is that if it comes down to foilers vs the authorities / councils / regulators , or surfers for that matter, foilers will lose.

EDIT: Hmm, the post I was replying to seems to have disappeared.

Yeah I was, it's the guys you are promoting and posting about recently in your foil drive videos, they have no respect for the rules and using the foil drive in the lineup around surfers and within metres of surfers and me this morning, I heard one is a foil drive dealer too, go figure, what an example to set for the industry and the foil drive product!

Self regulating is not working and these guys are not good ambassadors for the foiling community using an assist product in busy lineups at Kirra this morning. Check the cams at surfline, the footage is there in plain sight for all to see.