Assist and foiling etiquette

If foil drive users where adhering to the 200m rule then this conversation would not be necessary, but unfortunately they can't help themselves...foil assist users should stay 200m from any person in the water.

Not sure where this aggression is coming from....aren't you a foil drive team rider? Seems bizarre behaviour indeed...

Then there is this guy www.facebook.com/share/r/eggM59XhT2Mz3cX9/

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hilly said..
But we love Mr Bennett's on a flitelab at wategoes (no foil area) so many opinions on foils atm. All I get is positive comments at the beach about my boogie

Adam rides a prone at Wategoes as do I. Why is it a no foil area???

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opening shot Bennetts does an E assist takeoff in front of/ on top of other foilers. Not too fussed myself but it is hard to promote "self regulation" when you have pros posting videos of themselves clearly not self regulating. I would love to think self regulating is going to work but it's just not the case with any other activity humans engage in!
It is rare to see marine safety/ water police anywhere near any surf beaches in WA so it's very unlikely any attempt at enforcing the rules will come from the authorities. BUT the threat of action from community groups like the local board riders club etc. is quite real and ( I think) imminent. The laws are already in place in WA to make life very difficult for foil drivers so it would not be too hard for community groups to get them enforced. There are currently a few spots in WA where foil drivers regularly mix with surfers. Grunters and north point and south point in the SW and Avalon in Mandurah. They just simply should not be at those spots. I believe it's just a matter of time before we see community action in those spots.

personally I think 200m is a bit excessive but I am not familiar with QLD marine safety rules. In WA the DoT rules are that on a registrable/ motorised vessel you can't be doing over 8 knots within 50m of people in the water. I think that's a pretty fair and reasonable distance for E Foiler's to keep away from non powered craft. Tow in surfing must be 200m away from any other water activity but I think foil assist is a lot lower impact than tow in surfing.

In WA any motorised vessel must be registered and display registration numbers in a manner that makes them clearly visible. I think it would be a good idea if Efoilers actually followed this rule as it would make it a lot easier to identify and penalise bad actors.


Also @ hilly and anyone else using the tow boogie in WA if I were you I'd try to keep it on the down low. I don't think the DoT is even aware of tow boogies yet but I am very sure they won't like them when they do find out!

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hilly said..

activechris said..

hilly said..
But we love Mr Bennett's on a flitelab at wategoes (no foil area) so many opinions on foils atm. All I get is positive comments at the beach about my boogie

Adam rides a prone at Wategoes as do I. Why is it a no foil area???

My bad I meant powered foil, Flitelab is powered was the point I was making. Seems to be ok for some and not for others. Very subjective argument.

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hilly said..

activechris said..

hilly said..
But we love Mr Bennett's on a flitelab at wategoes (no foil area) so many opinions on foils atm. All I get is positive comments at the beach about my boogie

Adam rides a prone at Wategoes as do I. Why is it a no foil area???

My bad I meant powered foil, Flitelab is powered was the point I was making. Seems to be ok for some and not for others. Very subjective argument.

FLITELab is the brand, one of the product among many is the AMP Board that can have either a Jet or mast with motor attached to it. We ride the Prone boards (not power) and sometimes the AMP board without The Jet (so no power again) at Wategos. We tested it there in the early days only a couple of times but since found out that no PWCs are allowed at wategoes. I would never get out there with an efoil or AMP motor on the mast as it's just to crowded on the inside. The jet is perfectly safe as all it does is allow you to boost into a wave out wide but we still don't use it there out of respect.

We are seeing more and more FD's around here + the odd E-foils. They don't bother me one bit....ok, maybe the noise if there were tons of them, but on the whole, I'm all for it. They mostly ride the unbroken swells and therefore never really hinder anyone so I really can't see why people are getting their backsides up. The video with DC etc, they are all riding out wide, bothering no one

It seems like the perpetual repeat of something new entering the water and the guys who feel the most surfy, have to try and ban it (think windsurfers, kiters, SUP's, foils and voila now; FD's). I've done them all (except FD) and without fail, a surfer has tried to stop me going out at spots that surfers felt should be reserved for them irrespective of my presence in the water having no influence on their options to catch and enjoy their waves.

If you are a foiler, the last thing you want is a FD ban. The average guys can't tell the difference, and then the bureaucrats will just ban all foiling to avoid confusion......How many times have you been asked if you have an engine on that thing?

Give it time and it'll all sort itself out, just like it has with all the other supposed death crafts that have entered the lineups over the years.

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AnyBoard said..

hilly said..

AnyBoard said..

hilly said..

activechris said..

hilly said..
But we love Mr Bennett's on a flitelab at wategoes (no foil area) so many opinions on foils atm. All I get is positive comments at the beach about my boogie

Adam rides a prone at Wategoes as do I. Why is it a no foil area???

My bad I meant powered foil, Flitelab is powered was the point I was making. Seems to be ok for some and not for others. Very subjective argument.

Flite applied for and has an exemption to efoil in the marine park is my understanding.

I think buzzing the line up on a foil drive, essentially efoil, is a very different to an amp board for assisted take off only. Buzzing wide, through or behind a line up with a ski or boogie is in the same no go zone as foil drive efoil in my opinion.

Your seem to be deliberately muddying the waters or maybe just sh!t stirring I don't know.

This is a serious subject for those of us with the foresight to understand how this can impact regulations around prone foiling as well. What about when there is ten efoilers like piros at Kirra or Burleigh? Maybe 15 or 20. Would that change some of the ambivalence?

This is where it gets really muddy. OK if you have an amp board it is ok but not ok if you tow boogie and leave it out the back?? Seriously

I think buzzing the line up on a foil drive, essentially efoil, is a very different to an amp board for assisted take off only. Buzzing wide, through or behind a line up with a ski or boogie is in the same no go zone as foil drive efoil in my opinion.

Long before tow boogie existed surf lineups evolved to the point where if people are trying to paddle then towing is off limits out of respect for those wising to paddle into waves without ski chop and the threat of being run over. The regulators in Australia ultimately followed suit with laws for towing in and around surf breaks but also in and around other water users. You are towing so no mud in the water there. I own a tow boogie and wouldn't use it where there are others in the water and like you I have agreed to this when purchasing it.



Foil drive and efoils are powered craft with propellers that allow them to move through the water at speed unpowered by waves and therefore less predictability than a surfboard on a wave and with a lot more consequence for water users safety than a surfboard. Under law in many Australian states the regulators already consider a powered craft over a certain speed to be a pwc. Very simple.

As the amp setup does not power anyone at speed through the water then I think it will be different. The fact that it also has no propeller is also very different. I think they will be tolerated ultimately by other foilers and surfers as long as they stay out of the take area out of respect for those doing it under their own steam.

Surf lineups have changed a lot over 30 years but crowding particularly over the last 15 years is a big issue. The concern here from me and many others is that prone foilers will be caught in the **** storm that foil drivers are already creating with surfers and ultimately be banned and this threat is already real. We are just asking for some common sense. Now with the amazing opportunities foil drive provides in functionality it should be easy to take the foil drive to an area where there are no water users as this supposedly was why they purchased it.

Agree with everything you have said apart from the bit about the Amp board. It does have a propeller just inside like a JetSki or efoil. It does propel the craft to help catch waves so it is just like a FoilDrive being used as originally intended as foil assist. So must be treated the same as a FoilDrive. Or are some more equal than others?

I think making any distinctions between different types of foil assist is really getting a bit nit picky.



if you've got a battery and motor I'm going to drop in on you! Simples

( especially if your one of my mates)

yeh kind of reminds me of the time when kites becomes so user friendly the lounge chair non watermen bingo playing kooks created crazy stuff on the water.

The thing I still struggle to understand is eFoils have been around for a while and I can think of a few
- Fliteboard
- Lift 3 eFoil
- Foil Drive v1
- Foil Drive v2

I don't remember ever seeing a Fliteboard or other versions of eFoils in the lineup. Why all of a sudden is a Foil Drive v2 (which is an eFoil) expected to be tolerated amongst the lineup? Did the rules change?

A Foil Drive is an eFoil, and the only way it isn't is if you leave the battery at the beach and then that defeats the purpose of the tool.

I think skill level of the eFoil operator has no bearing on where it is used as if others see it used in a spot then they think it's game on I can get one and use it here too.

IMO any motored craft in the lineup poses risk to other users, some more than others, as you can get tumbled in the white water and accidentally engage the tool and if other users are close by it might not have a great outcome as things with foils move fast.

There was a guy out this morning on a FD and he was 2-300m north having a blast by himself, which just further proves there's no need to be amongst the lineup on an eFoil.

This is foil drive the yellow dot other afternoon I was out currumbin alley , purple dots surfers for reference to show how close this guy was coming amongst around and through the lineup with no idea or respect for the surf lineup or etiquette just so he could circle and pick off a set, this behavior will get sorted one way or another if continued, there were so many shoulders down Lacey's further or empty palm beach but this guy couldn't resist and he is not the only one and not all but most I see can't foil surf but just e-foil the waves and have not come from surfing on proning so surf skills or etiquette, again I am in no way against foil drives but don't try and steal sets from the pack from those sitting waiting when there are unlimited waves for you down the beach a little or incan see big blowups, this is 1 of many i have personally witnessed at currumbin, 2nd pic he is the blue and im catching it prone for him to be right in front of me then in 3rd pic i have gone around him as he can barely foil surf and in the way so i continue as he falls, i went in after this and waited to have a chat but he stayed out and funny thing is usually from experience guys in the wrong who dont know surf etiquette when you try and chat them they are ones getting defensive, anyway i hope we can start to address and police this as a surf , foiling community as its not a good look for foiling as a whole in my opinion and we all want to continue to be out there doing what we love ??????

Locals can debate this all they want. Trouble is that the tourists come to town and do whatever they want with no regard for others.
Only good solution seems to be stay out of the water on weekends and holidays...

The cheeky pommies on the Generic foiling podcast have come up with some slang for foiling assists. They call foil driving "finger blasting" and tow boogie self tow " pulling yourself off" or " having a pull"

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If you read my opening statement we don't use the jet-board there. We have other flitelab boards that we ride there every day that are non powered. Adam rides the AMPboard as do I sometimes without the Jet at Wategoes. Thats the whole point of the board. Slide the Jet in when you need it or ride without it. At Wategoes we ride without for the reason you mention above ;-)

He slides the jet in at Wategoes just a little bit
All a efoiler really needs is a lil' bit
Not a lot of power, just a lil' bit
Then we can motor to the pass in a lil' bit
He can show you how to cut the cue in a lil' bit
Jet through all the prone riders just a lil' bit
Slice their shins in the water just a lil' bit
Steal all their waves with power just a lil' bit
You know we're only using that motor at Wategoes a lil' bit?

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activechris said..

dearjohn said..

If you read my opening statement we don't use the jet-board there. We have other flitelab boards that we ride there every day that are non powered. Adam rides the AMPboard as do I sometimes without the Jet at Wategoes. Thats the whole point of the board. Slide the Jet in when you need it or ride without it. At Wategoes we ride without for the reason you mention above ;-)

He slides the jet in at Wategoes just a little bit
All a efoiler really needs is a lil' bit
Not a lot of power, just a lil' bit
Then we can motor to the pass in a lil' bit
He can show you how to cut the cue in a lil' bit
Jet through all the prone riders just a lil' bit
Slice their shins in the water just a lil' bit
Steal all their waves with power just a lil' bit
You know we're only using that motor at Wategoes a lil' bit?

I am sorry for the confusion.

We are not using the Jet at Wategoes! We sometimes use the board WITHOUT the jet at Wategoes. there is no lil' bit.

I am just trying to clear that up. Many people think as soon as the name FLITELab is involved that we are on the Jetboard. We also have FLITELab boards without a Jet. We ride them all the time at Wategoes.

Sorry, a bit confusing. you don't take out flight lab boards to Wategoes but you take out Jetboard efoils at Wategoes instead?