Select to expand quoteIan K said..
advantages of in-hub electric motors seem to have been demonstrated.
There are obviously some also disadvantages with electric motors inbuilt into wheels directly.
In such case quite heavy mass of electric motor stay relatively poorly amortized by tyre only.
We could think about additional suspension inside the wheel that allow for additional free vertical movement of the motor inside this hub.
Such central suspension that allow for additional 10 cm movement plus amortization supply by inflated tyres should be sufficient for both
comfortable an d safe driving.
Now really if we are going to the work down that hill we could completely recharge our battery on the way. At this moment all this braking is converted into heat and damaging braking pads.
All we could see saving on everything ; construction complexity, no transmition, gear box, exhaust and motor, cooling systems , then on explanation costs. I suspect that first to build modern electric cars will be mobile phone companies.
Mass production of carbon fiber has also nice price lowering side effects in other not directly related fields.
I will be eventually able to afford 100% carbon masts , booms etc.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..FormulaNova said..
1. Why not just have a removable battery pack?
2. They have significantly different widths and lengths.
1. When your EV has limited range of 100 km and suddenly you decided to travel 200- 300 km we have following easy options:
a) Have a net of service station to swap batteries in a minute
b) Have a portable petrol generator that is inserted into the boot of that car for the trip . Car is designed to accommodate such generator. Or on the roof rack or below the floor.
c) Future EV version could have also space in the floor allowing to swap battery pack for flat design petrol motor just for the trip.
d) Attach to tow bar a trailer with petrol generator and link back with cable to recharge car on the go. You don't need to own one. For a one trip is better to rent it from service station.
Now range or our EV is unlimited.
2. This is why structure of the drive train chassis could be build in such way that could easily slide to extend in length or widths. Just few structural elements - beams could expend or slide in like a ram to allow distance between wheels :
-increase for better stability for large cabin
-decrease for small city commuting , in space saver cabin
We never are going to replace 10 tone truck or bus but if think far ahead we could use bottom modules to clip into one centrally operated vehicle.
So for example we could connect 2 drive trains to build one longer limousine or van .
Since average family has now 4 cars (two for parents and two for kids) that we don't have to look far if need extra power drive train.
Join even 4 to create extra wide and long, as long as you have roads wide enough to support it. One cabin sitting on all 4 power drive base unit.
16 wheels in total. Crazy ? maybe today yes but again at no cost at all you could now transport a serious bulky stuff.
Because our car have motor in the wheels we could also easy lift whole floor platform above the ground - high clearance or lower it. By pneumatic or mechanical rams whole suspension could go up or down.
The only thing crazier than your idea is me arguing with you about it. 
So, you want an EV that can have a petrol motor? Well lets see, you'd want say 70kw to be able to drive the car when the battery is flat and maybe charge the battery at the same time? That's not exactly a tiny motor, and will need cooling systems.
Lets throw it into a Toyota and call it a Prius or maybe a Hybrid Camry? What? It's been done already? Prius is meant to be a hybrid but people have adapted them to be charged from the mains. How is that different to your idea? Well, its better because its based on reality, and it exists now.
A remember reading a long long time ago about people in the USA using a trailer as a 'pusher-trailer' either with a petrol powered engine or an electric powered motor. These provide mechanical energy to push the car. Why would you use it to recharge the battery?
Beams to expand the wheel base? Wow, you really aren't an engineer are you? All this while keeping the cost and weight down.
I wonder where all the other designers of cars have gone so wrong...
I don't want to be completely negative though. So, mock up a demonstration of your concepts and we can all see how it works.
I get it now though.. One cabin for George and Elroy, and a bigger one if Jane and the whole family needs to travel Brilliant!
According to the blurb in Gizmag the unsprung weight is not a disadvantage.
newatlas.com/go/6104/
" The inwheel motors and magnesium alloy wheels, and tyres, have a total mass of 24kg. The original assembly mass on the MINI One was 22.5kg. With so little difference in unsprung mass (the brake hubs and discs have been removed), and full regenerative braking, the ride is claimed to be no different ."
You can average much less than 70kW FormulaNova and still have a driveable car, also from Gizmag
"Similarly, so that the car can drive a significant distance, PML has used a very small, lightweight 250cc four stroke motor to power a highly-efficient electrical generator. The engine is run at a continuous speed and load, which results in optimum efficiency fuel conversion. After delivering the energy to the battery system the mileage translates to around 80mpg and gives the QED a range of 1000 miles (1500 kilometres) between recharges or visits to the petrol station. Driving it without the generator offers a still healthy (by EV standards) range of 200-250 miles (350 to 420 km depending on how much of a leadfoot the driver is)."
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..Dezman said..
Another concept that worked well was the VW power pack 'motor' that could be removed quickly and replaced!
Plus it's not that everyone needs each cabin but by using just one base you save on development costs of multiple units, and new updated styles of cabins could be replaced instead of the whole car.
Some people lack the imagination to conceive a new future and I'm sure there were supporters of horse drawn carts that were environmentally friendly instead of petrol cars back when....
Why not just have a removable battery pack?
If you have a need for such cars, why not just have multiple cars instead? Whats the cost of an extra battery and motor setup versus the complexity and restrictions of having multiple cabins that can be swapped.
I don't know how Macro's idea of a small car platform is going to work when he wants to add on his 'delivery van' cabin. They have significantly different widths and lengths.
Macro wouldn't have been inventing a motor car back then, he would have been inventing a plutonium powered pogo stick with interchangable battery packs.
Brilliant again formula! See how a guy with a wild imagination hands it over to a practical guy to nut it out from a pogo stick to a sixteen wheel all terrain machine.
See the VW power pack includes gear box and uni's which slide into the hubs, the whole unit is interchangeable. So I guess you could have different sized motors and extra batts to deal with different applications.
But what did they develop today? A petrol engine running a generator to power a electric motor!!!! And then you take it home to recharge by coal fired power stations....oh god what were they thinking?
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
Lets throw it into a Toyota and call it a Prius or maybe a Hybrid Camry? What? It's been done already?
No, The main problem with electric vehicle this day lays in range - distance between charging.
Since most of our driving could be to the work and back, some shopping expedition that still below 100 km one way, we always must take into account that longer travel will be needed.
So what ? We need conventional another car on top of our EV for once a year trip to the outback?
No, my idea is rented/hired , attachment trailer with generator could save us from buying another petrol powered cars.
In fact our EV don't need 70 kw petrol engine generator to run steady/h on the motorway.
In fact every electric motor and battery has such capacity that could accelerate and run at power peak 10 x nominal if needed for short period of time.
So our EV could accelerate and overtake your 6 -8 cylinder beast in no time at all.
But for longer trip required to sustain 100 km/h peace possibly no more then 10 -20 kw recharging generator is needed.
Alternatively the trailer could consist of additional battery pack also hired for the trip. If my trailer could take 750 kg that is a lot of battery power on the way.
The main concern today is battery capacity. That will improve slowly over time. But nothing prevent us to develop the rest of the technology today, as I do not expect significant discoveries on this field.
All just matter to start building EV today with hope for improved batteries later on.
Now this stupid idea that a electric car has to have long range for the once a year holiday does not add up! It's like saying my petrol car is no good because you can't cook and sleep in it while on a lunch break, then launch it off the boat ramp to go fishing!
Now look at what we got now a car that weighs 10 times more than its cargo, then the impact is greater in a crash.
As for new light weight materials, it won't be long before genetic engineering can produce a grown alternative to carbon fibre, it's just economics in what is developed.
We can't keep driving with oil based cars forever and as soon as we start the change over to a better and sustainable future the easy it will be for all.
So much today we take for granted in technology was hardly imagined yesterday when I was a kid, so dream big everyone.
Select to expand quoteDezman said..
Now this stupid idea that a electric car has to have long range for the once a year holiday does not add up!.
That is my ultimate argument to shut up all this critics that electric car is unable to do what conventional car can today.
Can't go 1000 km in one day and that is why we need all this petrol cars.
No , I just show that we could go around this problem even today if needed.
Look at that problem we face today. Solar panels are so cheap that you wish to cover whole your roof with PV panels.
But now you are allowed to have only 5kW conected to the grid,
At $0.5 per watts I could cover all my roof and the shed too. The access energy we could then direct to our cars battery.
We could also sell our electricity from our battery in the car at top peak price back to the grid when needed. Then your car could earn you money too when standing still!
Alternatively I could recharge my car with huge solar panels and sell energy back all day and night /24h a day.
Imagine bank of 10 millions electric vehicles plugin into our national power grid. Small and big. EV cars and trucks, buses, vans etc.
No, that is not what you think - big drain of electricity. Just opposite - instant huge capacitor to cover everything our grid needs. Every home has a roof, every shed, all business blocks and warehouses too. They will be able to recharge all vehicles and sell the access back to the grid thanks to capacity of their batteries.
Then every square free cm of your vehicle covered with solar panel to recharge your battery even slowly.
Even if you stack in the middle of desert , thousand km to nearest petrol station - you will be able to drive every day a certain distance / or power your fridge full of beer on the camp.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..Dezman said..
Now this stupid idea that a electric car has to have long range for the once a year holiday does not add up!.
That is my ultimate argument to shut up all this critics that electric car is unable to do what conventional car can today.
Can't go 1000 km in one day and that is why we need all this petrol cars.
No , I just show that we could go around this problem even today if needed.
Look at that problem we face today. Solar panels are so cheap that you wish to cover whole your roof with PV panels.
But now you are allowed to have only 5kW conected to the grid,
At $0.5 per watts I could cover all my roof and the shed too. The access energy we could then direct to our cars battery.
We could also sell our electricity from our battery in the car at top peak price when needed. Then your car could earn you money too when standing still!
Yes the solar system that feeds the grid is a great idea and one that the Government made happen too, 'gee they aren't all bad'. I guess there has to be a limit on how many can feed power in so 5kva is set level.
But as you mentioned the whole car can be a solar panel which really does add up over time, then recharging stations along the highway in rest stops! I recharge my electric bike in One hour and I'm sure technology can do better! So while having your lunch on that once a year holiday you can enjoy a break while the car recharges at the station.
Or hirer add on batteries could insert into boot or changed over.
Select to expand quoteseanhogan said..
Formula, you're not yourself, have a snickers.... 
Nah, the sad thing is this is me I thought I was holding back...
I think I've read one too many of these 'great ideas' that always seem to lack what's that word.... research.
Select to expand quoteDezman said..
Now this stupid idea that a electric car has to have long range for the once a year holiday does not add up!
Now look at what we got now a car that weighs 10 times more than its cargo, .
10 times more than its cargo! That's a conservative estimate. I'm sure, more than once, someone has jumped in a Toyota Fantasylandcruiser, weighing 2.5 tonnes, to duck down the shops for a packet of smokes. Do they even weigh 100 grams?
Edit. Thought I'd better check my guestimates on the web
Landcruiser Sahara Turbo Diesel
Kerb weight 2720kg
GVM 3350kg
It can only take at max 23%of its own weight!
4 blokes in it, crossing the Sahara would have to travel pretty light. You'd be better off on 4 camels. Macro's right. There's room for improvement in vehicle design and construction.
A lot of the above is here and now (if you are in the market for a luxury sports sedan):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S
Top selling car (not just electric car!) in Norway for 2 months.
National networks of fast charging stations
Battery swapping
Good range and killer performance.
Outstanding safety
Some owners in USA reportedly charge using solar panels never having to connect to the grid.
I'll probably be waiting for the proposed "everyman's" Model E 
Select to expand quoteIan K said..
You can average much less than 70kW FormulaNova and still have a driveable car, also from Gizmag
"Similarly, so that the car can drive a significant distance, PML has used a very small, lightweight 250cc four stroke motor to power a highly-efficient electrical generator. The engine is run at a continuous speed and load, which results in optimum efficiency fuel conversion. After delivering the energy to the battery system the mileage translates to around 80mpg and gives the QED a range of 1000 miles (1500 kilometres) between recharges or visits to the petrol station. Driving it without the generator offers a still healthy (by EV standards) range of 200-250 miles (350 to 420 km depending on how much of a leadfoot the driver is)."
Okay Ian, I'll dive in here too. I note there's no mention of clip-on cabins and other science fiction, but I will check it out anyway. I plucked the 70kw number out of the air because I figured that's what a conventional car would need when trying to get up a steep hill. Worst case assumption, with flat battery, and wanted to drive normally with all the engine's energy going to the drivetrain.
If they can do this, why can't the engine/generator/electric motor combination deliver 80mpg performance all the time? That's good economy. You don't even need to market the car as an EV if you can achieve these figures.
They aren't using bogus numbers by including the initial charge as 'free energy' to get the 80mpg figures are they?
You might be right Formula, maybe that is running on empty with a bonus full electronic charge, don't know, you'll have to further consult the WWW. It hasn't been optimised for economy either, it's a weapon, does 0 to 100 in 4 seconds.
Select to expand quoteIan K said..Dezman said..
Now this stupid idea that a electric car has to have long range for the once a year holiday does not add up!
Now look at what we got now a car that weighs 10 times more than its cargo, .
10 times more than its cargo! That's a conservative estimate. I'm sure, more than once, someone has jumped in a Toyota Fantasylandcruiser, weighing 2.5 tonnes, to duck down the shops for a packet of smokes. Do they even weigh 100 grams?
Edit. Thought I'd better check my guestimates on the web
Landcruiser Sahara Turbo Diesel
Kerb weight 2720kg
GVM 3350kg
It can only take at max 23%of its own weight!
4 blokes in it, crossing the Sahara would have to travel pretty light. You'd be better off on 4 camels. Macro's right. There's room for improvement in vehicle design and construction.
It's a joke hey? If only the government could push up the rego going by weight and engine size as well. Encourage lighter cars would reduce collision impact, save wear and tear on roads etc. I'm all for higher fuel tax for its a user pay system.
Without original thought progress will never be made.
Here is a great electric concept from Jaguar, that, sadly never made it to production, because this thing is a f u c k i n g BEAST!!!!! Jet turbine electric super car, pass me the tissues please.
Watch
The short version:
Select to expand quoteDezman said..
It's a joke hey? If only the government could push up the rego going by weight and engine size as well. Encourage lighter cars would reduce collision impact, save wear and tear on roads etc. I'm all for higher fuel tax for its a user pay system.
My understanding is that they do push up the rego for heavier cars. At least here in NSW. Once your car gets over 1500Kgs its charged a higher rego fee. I am sure there are lower categories too.
I think in Qld they push it up based on the number of cylinders.
I am not sure about your idea of 'reduce collision impact'. What does that mean? Two small cars colliding head on is still going to involve the same deceleration as two heavy cars colliding head on.
I am not sure the wear and tear on the roads would be noticeable either. I read somewhere ages ago that cars tend to create more wear on the roads than trucks, although I guess the obvious difference in Kms driven, trucks would probably cause more.
I might have to go buy a ute now. That way I could clip on another bit and call it a panel van! If only I could get one long enough for boards to fit in easily.
Wow formulanova if I did not know any better I could swear that you already own one and hate it. Its an idea man, lighten up.
IMO I could see that working with alot of development, most cars clip together now. People think a new car is safe because it has 50 airbags. I know I would rather be in the backseat of an old HR Holden with no seatbelts in an accident over a new suitcase car.
Draw it up Macro you might be very surprised if you spend the time. I would have thought multifunctional cars would be here by now.
Select to expand quoteyoungbull said..
Wow formulanova if I did not know any better I could swear that you already own one and hate it. Its an idea man, lighten up.
IMO I could see that working with alot of development, most cars clip together now. People think a new car is safe because it has 50 airbags. I know I would rather be in the backseat of an old HR Holden with no seatbelts in an accident over a new suitcase car.
Draw it up Macro you might be very surprised if you spend the time. I would have thought multifunctional cars would be here by now.
Idea? Yeah, I know, but it is amazing when ideas come up all the time, and reality is ignored. Its easy to dream, but much harder to deliver a product that actually works. Apparently connecting a trailer to a car is hard, but connection of a car in two parts is so much simpler...
Cars clip together? Only in the way that they clip together to then be glued or welded. Not so that they can be removed at will. Something that sounds so trivial is actually quite complex.
You would rather be in a HR in an accident? Now, that's telling. The HR might look like it is in better condition after the accident, but you are screwed. At least in a modern car its written off but your chance of survival is much higher.
As a teenager I saw two (modern at the time) cars hit head on at about 60km/h in an offset collision and they crumpled like coke cans.... but the drivers got out straight away. Which do you prefer? Your body or your car?
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..Dezman said..
It's a joke hey? If only the government could push up the rego going by weight and engine size as well. Encourage lighter cars would reduce collision impact, save wear and tear on roads etc. I'm all for higher fuel tax for its a user pay system.
My understanding is that they do push up the rego for heavier cars. At least here in NSW. Once your car gets over 1500Kgs its charged a higher rego fee. I am sure there are lower categories too.
I think in Qld they push it up based on the number of cylinders.
I am not sure about your idea of 'reduce collision impact'. What does that mean? Two small cars colliding head on is still going to involve the same deceleration as two heavy cars colliding head on.
I am not sure the wear and tear on the roads would be noticeable either. I read somewhere ages ago that cars tend to create more wear on the roads than trucks, although I guess the obvious difference in Kms driven, trucks would probably cause more.
I might have to go buy a ute now. That way I could clip on another bit and call it a panel van! If only I could get one long enough for boards to fit in easily.
Yes they do but it's not effecting people's choice enough to make a difference, if the big heavy 4+4 was $5000 to reg each year then you would see a reduction in their number.
Token laws are just that!
As for the laws of Newton and wear and tear! I like to keep my head in the clouds for real reality is crap and the truth is we are just bags of water full of fermenting food that will die with a whimper and not a bang...
Oh if you lost weight and were young again then you could ride a shorter board that would fit in a ute/canopy grand pa panel van.
Just hanging five off the wheel chair :D......
I like the way Macro pooh-poohs stereotypical CEOs at production facilities for being short sighted, narrow minded, ignorant, and unable to produce anything. I like the way he does this and then behaves exactly like one.
"Here's an idea I've sketched out! Now go make it! First one wins!"
It's like the worst boss you ever had.
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..
I like the way Macro pooh-poohs stereotypical CEOs at production facilities for being short sighted, narrow minded, ignorant, and unable to produce anything. I like the way he does this and then behaves exactly like one.
"Here's an idea I've sketched out! Now go make it! First one wins!"
It's like the worst boss you ever had.
Haha. I admire honesty with which you express your opinion about your bosses.
We still underestimate value of such vertical communication within organisation may have.
In real life such honest attitude to your superiors and creativity must be strongly appreciated and expressed in
premiums and advances to you everyday.
Good boss value nothing more then well being of their organisation and all subordinates.
That all could be true till you reach the top shelf level yourself and then your attitude must turn dramatically,
You no longer could be sincere and honest in expressing your opinions, Neither you are allowed to criticize your workers.
Happy career to you 
Ps. To clarify. In real life you have obviously the best boss in whole world and you simply express your honest opinion at every occasion how happy and grateful you are for such privilege.
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..
I like the way Macro pooh-poohs stereotypical CEOs at production facilities for being short sighted, narrow minded, ignorant, and unable to produce anything. I like the way he does this and then behaves exactly like one.
"Here's an idea I've sketched out! Now go make it! First one wins!"
It's like the worst boss you ever had.
I thought it was more like when Homer got the chance to design a car
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..evlPanda said..
I like the way Macro pooh-poohs stereotypical CEOs at production facilities for being short sighted, narrow minded, ignorant, and unable to produce anything. I like the way he does this and then behaves exactly like one.
"Here's an idea I've sketched out! Now go make it! First one wins!"
It's like the worst boss you ever had.
I thought it was more like when Homer got the chance to design a car
Since you don't have any technical knowledge and interest in this subject why don't you simply shut up or leave the topic and join more interesting - shark subjects ? You posts are typical for online bullies. No matter what subject you choose the defenceless victim for your internet molesting. Bye here, nobody is interested in your antisocial posts.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
Since you don't have any technical knowledge and interest in this subject why don't you simply shut up or leave the topic and join more interesting - shark subjects ? You posts are typical for online bullies. No matter what subject you choose the defenceless victim for your internet molesting. Bye here, nobody is interested in your antisocial posts.
Wow, Macro, you really are upset by my critique of your idea. If you didn't want people to analyse it, why post it online? I didn't realise that you just wanted people to say 'Good on you Macro, you are clever'. Good on you Macro, you are clever.
It seems topical at the moment to label people bullies. Even if you are using it as an excuse for something.
So, you are suggesting that I 'simply shut up or leave the topic'. That sounds just like something a bully would say.
No technical knowledge? I think that's the thing that winds me up about your idea(s), in that you don't seem to understand how a car works, yet are suggesting that current car companies have got it wrong, and then you try and design things without any understanding of the requirements. It's like me fronting up to a nuclear reactor and telling everyone inside that they have it wrong and that they should be doing it 'this' way.
You said "I just have brilliant idea for the concept car they could manufacture cheaply and be the most wanted here and abroad". Why wouldn't you want some input into whether its feasible? Why wouldn't you want some input from a typical consumer? If it is to be the most wanted here, then you need input. Just because my input is highlighting the many failings in your idea doesn't mean it is not valid.
I don't think I have criticised your idea without providing a reason why. I don't like it myself when someone just says an idea is rubbish without telling me why. Sometimes there are reasons that you yourself cannot see that others can. You seem to gloss over these responses and only respond to the one's that you think you can disprove.
