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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

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4 in 1 , 4 x 4

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Created by Macroscien > 9 months ago, 6 Feb 2014
Chris_M

Chris_M

2129 posts
8 Feb 2014 5:45AM
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I'm gonna send you all off to your rooms without any pudding if you don't stop squabbling

FormulaNova

FormulaNova

WA, 14922 posts
8 Feb 2014 5:49AM
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Chris_M said..

I'm gonna send you all off to your rooms without any pudding if you don't stop squabbling



Aww.... Muuummmm! I wanted to argue some more!!

I was going to bring up my flying car made from recycled milk cartons, and now I won't get the chance!

Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD, 6808 posts
8 Feb 2014 9:07AM
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FormulaNova said..

1.If you didn't want people to analyse it, why post it online? ......
2........., in that you don't seem to understand how a car works,......
3. nuclear reactor and telling everyone inside that they have it wrong and that they should be doing it 'this' way.




1.First you don't seems to be interested in exchanging ideas and discussing technical details, or even concepts. By attacking author itself , you can not change scientific facts , but you could divert attention of the audience and cover lack of expertise on any field
2. Statement possibly you address to your spouse , when asking for help in refiling wipers liquid container or check tyre pressure...mistakenly posted now. If by mistake you do similar comment by the wheel on the road to anybody, that will finish inventively in road rage accident and you will be the victim ( punched in the face in no time or spitted at least, or fingered if you prefer)
3. That is your video library that explain everything.. by watching Homer Simpson all over instead of Discovery channel you may save a bit of money on TV subscriptions at the cost of general knowledge level

3a) Even nuclear reactor design and exploitation doesn't remain insulated from idiots. So far the most dramatic accidents where caused by your favorite movie hero , Homers running Chernobyl and ****ushima. Sometimes we don't need to be experts to spot the mushroom.

Summarizing.
You are obviously happy with existing automobile designs , and see the progress or even contemplation of the concepts complete waste of time.
Did I hear here or anywhere a single idea of yours what or how could be improved ?
Nope,
BTW That latest exchangee inspired me to next ingenious idea that I could present in new topic. "Internet Apartheid" !

Ian K

Ian K

WA, 4122 posts
8 Feb 2014 7:28AM
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Macroscien said..


By attacking author itself , you can not change scientific facts !


Nor literature...

Who said "The works of Shakespeare are rubbish, it was written by a monkey." ?

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8789894/Monkeys-at-typewriters-close-to-reproducing-Shakespeare.html

"The experiment attempts to prove the theory that an infinite number of monkeys sitting at an infinite number of typewriters would eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare by chance."

Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD, 6808 posts
8 Feb 2014 9:58AM
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Ian K said..

Macroscien said..


By attacking author itself , you can not change scientific facts !


Nor literature...

Who said "The works of Shakespeare are rubbish, it was written by a monkey." ?

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8789894/Monkeys-at-typewriters-close-to-reproducing-Shakespeare.html

"The experiment attempts to prove the theory that an infinite number of monkeys sitting at an infinite number of typewriters would eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare by chance."


haha ".....The monkeys produced five pages of text, mainly composed of the letter S, but failed to type anything close to a word of English, broke the computer and used the keyboard as a lavatory......'"

This is exactly how some individuals are using following topic in order to discuss our automobile dilemma .

Should I post you few tissues to clean your keyboard, Formulanova ?

BTW that reminds me quite interesting attempts made in the field of science , not literature this time.

The same methodology of random insertion of the characters and numbers to create scientific mathematical or physical formulas then testing results if the product solve the presented problem.

For example if we want random draw famous formula describing energy equivalent

E= mc2 - it shouldn't be too difficult for cloud computers to come with right answer in reasonable time
( limited by our patience not human or universe lifetime)

As usual , this inspired me to another interesting invention!
At this moment we have two colors available on SB for user: Red and Green to express gratitude to the poster.

There could be one more installed in BROWN color at user disposal.

That will eventually prevent people like Formulanove from sh***ing onto his keyboard

Ian K

Ian K

WA, 4122 posts
8 Feb 2014 8:27AM
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FormulaNova

FormulaNova

WA, 14922 posts
8 Feb 2014 11:02AM
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'I gave you my brilliant idea. I know nothing about engineering, but I know it will work and that the rest of the car manufacturing industry are idiots.

Now you dare ask questions about the technical details.

Bat. Ball. We are going home!'

Macro, childish insults are not the way to discuss something. If you had a valid idea, we could easily discuss its merits, but the minute we look at the detail you change to another topic and ignore it.

As a gesture of peace, please let me know how your extra special airbag in a bumper bar is going to work?

Just this one. We can discuss just that idea first and then move onto others. Go on!

Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD, 6808 posts
8 Feb 2014 1:11PM
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FormulaNova said..

As a gesture of peace, please let me know how your extra special airbag in a bumper bar is going to work?


Haven't you ever seen our human space vehicle landing on another planets ?
Really?
Follow my advice and switch channel on your TV.

Maybe automobile is not about rocket science now, but one day will be and inventions in conquering the cosmos will be translated into our everyday life.

Battery operated drill you use everyday also cost few billion dollars to invent and develop ( as I byproduct of Apollo mission ).

ok few technical details. How it works already on this remote planets.

Proximity sensor detect approaching impact with ground on landing ( ledar or radar) and deploy over sized airbag that cushion the landing on this planet.
Similarly computer soon to be compulsory in all road vehicles ( already party implemented in stability control and engine , security etc) will detect inevitable crash
before it actually happen ( by calculation speed vectors, moments, distances and trajectories ) and deploy airbag in front of the vehicle.
Obviously not during your parking maneuver when you are using your bumper to move next vehicle but when at speed.

Now this extra 1 meter inflated bag in front of your vehicle could make this difference between death and life.

The lighter the vehicle the better results, so I will not be surprised if technology will be deployed first in bicycles and motorbikes.

BTW there is brilliant Aussie company, located in Brisbane that actually developing similar system for Remotely Operated Flying Vehicles or Autonomous so called Drones.
By using video cameras there are able to detect other flying objects and avoid collision (so much improvement over proposed by you accelerometers sensors - that require physical contacts of the objects)

FormulaNova

FormulaNova

WA, 14922 posts
8 Feb 2014 11:21AM
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Macroscien said..

FormulaNova said..

As a gesture of peace, please let me know how your extra special airbag in a bumper bar is going to work?


Haven't you ever seen our human space vehicle landing on another planets ?
Really?
Follow my advice and switch channel on your TV.

Maybe automobile is not about rocket science now, but one day will be and inventions in conquering the cosmos will be translated into our everyday life.

Battery operated drill you use everyday also cost few billion dollars to invent and develop ( as I byproduct of Apollo mission ).



So, you really don't know then? Okay, I will help you out.

Maybe I should stop understanding how things work and just make assumptions. Maybe I should watch science fiction shows instead.

Okay, here goes. Most people don't realise that they are about to have an accident. They just have them because something unexpected happens. This is not anyway like a probe landing on another planet, which is obviously planned.

In the case of an airbag my understanding is that a few accelerometers in the car detect that the car is slowing down dramatically, i.e. you have hit something hard and the car has already started compressing. It then ignites the charge in the airbag to inflate it so that the passenger hits it and their rate of deceleration is slowed and they don't hit the steering wheel or windscreen. The car is still going to decelerate at the same rate, but the passengers head is not going to. By venting the airbag, the person slows down instead of hitting the steering wheel with their skull.

So, what exactly is an airbag in the bumper of a car going to do? Is it going to shoot the whole car backwards after the impact? What's that going to do?

Is it going to blow up in front of the car to prevent the car from hitting the other object? It can't. The sensors haven't detected the deceleration yet, because nothing has hit.

So, is there something clever about this that I have missed?

Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD, 6808 posts
8 Feb 2014 1:33PM
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FormulaNova said..

So, is there something clever about this that I have missed?


Maybe yes, If you still have old vehicle that doesn't have parking sensor, you may missed to observe that ultrasonic detectors are common already.
You possibly could retrofit your car with one of those purchased on eBay.
Anyway cheap automobile version will not work well on Moonar lander due to lack of air ( needed for ultrasonic device to operate) or docking to ISS.

FormulaNova

FormulaNova

WA, 14922 posts
8 Feb 2014 11:34AM
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Hah ha... that's hilarious. You read my response and then go back and edit your posting. I guess you have invented time travel now.

How about you play fair and respond to the postings instead of reinvent them.

Okay, now tell me how much energy is required to inflate an airbag to slow down a vehicle sufficiently from 110kmh to prevent damage to it. Is it possible to do this?

Please note that you are doing nothing for the occupants if they don't also have airbags. You are just trying to protect the car from damage. At the moment in car designs, its this absorption of the impact that is protecting the occupants from serious damage. That's a heck of a lot of energy you are trying to absorb, and I really have my doubts this is possible.

FormulaNova

FormulaNova

WA, 14922 posts
8 Feb 2014 11:38AM
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Macroscien said..

FormulaNova said..

So, is there something clever about this that I have missed?


Maybe yes, If you still have old vehicle that doesn't have parking sensor, you may missed to observe that ultrasonic detectors are common already.
You possibly could retrofit your car with one of those purchased on eBay.
Anyway cheap automobile version will not work well on Moonar lander due to lack of air ( needed for ultrasonic device to operate) or docking to ISS.


There you go again, trying childish insults. I have a car that has been fitted with reversing sensors from the factory, I have fitted one with a kit from ebay, and about 10 years ago I have built a 'parking radar' from a kit. So, yes, I do have a little understanding of ultrasonic sensors.

Okay, in the interest of debating the science. Does an ultrasonic transducer have enough time to detect a target that is closing at 220kmh, but is still a few meters away?

Dezman

Dezman

NSW, 818 posts
8 Feb 2014 2:43PM
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You missed 'proximity detector' not deceleration Formulanova! 2cents worth.

FormulaNova

FormulaNova

WA, 14922 posts
8 Feb 2014 11:45AM
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Dezman said..

You missed 'proximity detector' not deceleration Formulanova! 2cents worth.



Dezman, your 'proximity detector' is going to trigger an airbag if your car is sitting behind another car at 100kmh. Is that what you really want?

What if a bird swoops infront of your car at 100kmh?

You have probably missed that Macro reedited his post after I replied, so hopefully you can forgive me for not addressing all his points

Dezman

Dezman

NSW, 818 posts
8 Feb 2014 2:48PM
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Now if we had an anchor in the boot and the wrap between the cheeks of the ass, could there be a enough time to unclench ones buttocks to release anchor to take hold and stop the car?
Now go to workshop and test idea.

FormulaNova

FormulaNova

WA, 14922 posts
8 Feb 2014 11:50AM
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Wow, Macro is still re-editing his original post.

I guess I should take the advice I have been given and go for a sail. Ciao!

Dezman

Dezman

NSW, 818 posts
8 Feb 2014 2:52PM
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FormulaNova said..

Dezman said..

You missed 'proximity detector' not deceleration Formulanova! 2cents worth.



Dezman, your 'proximity detector' is going to trigger an airbag if your car is sitting behind another car at 100kmh. Is that what you really want?

What if a bird swoops infront of your car at 100kmh?

You have probably missed that Macro reedited his post after I replied, so hopefully you can forgive me for not addressing all his points


Man imagine how scared that bird would be! And yes reedit is not fair for others who find the topic interesting too.
Can I point out that I think it would be very rare indeed to find an engineer who is an artist and free thinker, so it takes a team to really come up with something new.

Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD, 6808 posts
8 Feb 2014 1:56PM
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FormulaNova said..

Macroscien said..

FormulaNova said..

So, is there something clever about this that I have missed?


Maybe yes, If you still have old vehicle that doesn't have parking sensor, you may missed to observe that ultrasonic detectors are common already.
You possibly could retrofit your car with one of those purchased on eBay.
Anyway cheap automobile version will not work well on Moonar lander due to lack of air ( needed for ultrasonic device to operate) or docking to ISS.



Okay, in the interest of debating the science. Does an ultrasonic transducer have enough time to detect a target that is closing at 220kmh, but is still a few meters away?


First . If you employ me now online to resolve all technical issues associated with design all new vehicle- I am afraid that army of 5,000 engineers and technician could loose their jobs and prospect to earn real money.
We may produce plans here in details, draw sketches on paper handkerchief but I am affraid that I will not be able to mass produce this automobile in my shed.
Returning to energy of your speeding vehicle you could compute this:

E=mV*V/2 ( I still have problem with notation so I don't bother much about )

400 kg * 100km/h * 100km/h / 2 = 154 kJ

now substitute this in next equation to compress cubic meter of gases till the braking point of carbon fiber material of your airbag ....
serve yourself I am going out for sun now to expand my shed , just in the case....

by the way ,, on side of my handkerchif calculations I noticed that is exactly energy is required to boil half a liter of the water... So I may do myself a coffee brake ) in the case accident doesn't happen - but energy was absorbed and saved

Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD, 6808 posts
8 Feb 2014 2:13PM
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Dezman said..
Man imagine how scared that bird would be! .


Why restrict air bag deployment to birds strike only ? What about mosquito and fly?
Is Formula so naive to think that computer is unable to differentiate between Elephant and Flee ?

Dezman

Dezman

NSW, 818 posts
8 Feb 2014 3:34PM
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Macroscien said..

Dezman said..
Man imagine how scared that bird would be! .


Why restrict air bag deployment to birds strike only ? What about mosquito and fly?
Is Formula so naive to think that computer is unable to differentiate between Elephant and Flee ?


Metal or flesh too, but most find it hard to imagine how close technology is to mimicking life! As in seeing, hearing and etc.
If we can conceive it we can build it...the future is coming fast.

russh

russh

SA, 3025 posts
8 Feb 2014 5:45PM
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Its been done before


Roar

Roar

NSW, 471 posts
10 Feb 2014 10:36AM
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what you have all also failed to mention is that the big oil companys own most of the patents for electirc engines and buy pretty much anything that remotely competes with them. The legal minefield you would have to jump thru to build it would be insane.

just look what happened to the sarich orbital engine.

Ian K

Ian K

WA, 4122 posts
10 Feb 2014 8:23AM
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Roar said..

what you have all also failed to mention is that the big oil companys own most of the patents for electirc engines and buy pretty much anything that remotely competes with them. The legal minefield you would have to jump thru to build it would be insane.

just look what happened to the sarich orbital engine.


The Sarich engine was never going to work. Lets face it, if you're going to do internal combustion you can't beat pistons.

From Wikipeadia (You've got to believe Wikipeadia)

"
Technical Problems[edit]

The Sarich orbital engine has a number of fundamental unsolved problems that have kept it from becoming a usable engine. Some key components cannot be cooled and others cannot readily be lubricated, so it is very susceptible to overheating.[1] At one press conference at which Sarich presented the engine, automotive engineer Phil Irving (designer of the Vincent Motorcycle and Brabham Formula One engines) pointed out a number of technical difficulties. Some processes developed for the engine could be used for other engines, such as the Orbital Combustion Process, an air/fuel precompresser for injection."


Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD, 6808 posts
10 Feb 2014 10:50AM
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Ian K said..

Roar said..

what you have all also failed to mention is that the big oil companys own most of the patents for electirc engines and buy pretty much anything that remotely competes with them. The legal minefield you would have to jump thru to build it would be insane.

just look what happened to the sarich orbital engine.


The Sarich engine was never going to work. Lets face it, if you're going to do internal combustion you can't beat pistons.

From Wikipeadia (You've got to believe Wikipeadia)

"
Technical Problems[edit]

The Sarich orbital engine has a number of fundamental unsolved problems that have kept it from becoming a usable engine. Some key components cannot be cooled and others cannot readily be lubricated, so it is very susceptible to overheating.[1] At one press conference at which Sarich presented the engine, automotive engineer Phil Irving (designer of the Vincent Motorcycle and Brabham Formula One engines) pointed out a number of technical difficulties. Some processes developed for the engine could be used for other engines, such as the Orbital Combustion Process, an air/fuel precompresser for injection."



This may not not be entirely true . That was always the case with sealing rotating pistons in Wankel engine for example, but the latest progress seems to overcome this hurdle. ( Aussie company again !)
The revolution could even go as far as removing sealing rings from pistons in our traditional combustion engines all together.
But that improvement shouldn't distract us from right track to the Electric Vehicle replacing combustion one.
slashdot.org

sn

sn

WA, 2775 posts
10 Feb 2014 8:51AM
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Roar said..just look what happened to the sarich orbital engine.


What happened to the Sarich.........

It hit several engineering brick walls, but in solving many of the problems during its development, the Sarich engineers learnt a lot, and its main spin off was the fuel injection system which is [was?] being used by several companies.

But- the main problem was convincing the big automotive companies to change thier entrenched ideas and change over to a different type of engine and drivetrain [Sarich engineers also developed a different transmission to suit the engine.]

It was a lot easier [and still very profitable] to sell the emmissions reduction related intellectual property to automotive companies- as world wide the pressure is on to minimise thier pollution generation.

The engine itself never met expectations- but the expertise and skills attracted to, or developed in W.A. certainly didnt hurt local industry.

stephen

Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD, 6808 posts
10 Feb 2014 11:14AM
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Roar said..[/b]
just look what happened to the sarich orbital engine.

I have been thinking about Tesla Turbine converted into combustion engine....if it works ??
Suppose the combustion happen in the center and pressure released through turbine blades ( or opposite from outer diameter to the center....
With hypothetical high efficiency of Tesla Turbines up to 95% or even more, no sealing rings required, blades made of carbon grephene composites or titanium...
possibly too easy and as such should be already in use if really works....
just thinking a loud...

Ian K

Ian K

WA, 4122 posts
13 Feb 2014 10:55AM
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I've got it Macro, design and manufacture a quiet garbage truck and the world will beat a path to our door. Google tells me it's a world wide gripe. I'm sure it's technically possible, just no vehicle manufacturer has bothered to look into it. It's a huge market up for grabs.

Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD, 6808 posts
13 Feb 2014 2:02PM
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Ian K said..

I've got it Macro, design and manufacture a quiet garbage truck and the world will beat a path to our door. Google tells me it's a world wide gripe. I'm sure it's technically possible, just no vehicle manufacturer has bothered to look into it. It's a huge market up for grabs.


Maybe there is really something in it? Look, so much competition on small cars but not so much on trucks, buses. Few big companies and names survived all competition Caterpillar, John Deer, Volvo, PeterBuilt etc

Even machinery for our mining sites is all built overseas. But again there is a problem. There are so reliable so worth to spend extra.
Electric garbage truck could be one of those hits but I think that energy consumption for running hydraulic rams inside to compact stuff is quite high.
Mileage then to carry everything to dump land fill also everyday longer.
But again, the client is city council for buses and garbage trucks. Could easier to convince to implement greener technologies.
Specifically for them using in wheels electric motors shouldn't be a problem maneuverability when you have
4 wheels powered and steered at same times is just tremendous.

At this moment our garbage truck needs three attempts forwards/ backwards to access every bin at our cul de sac.

The question remain: Could our automobile plants could be converted to build buses and garbage trucks ?
With orders portfolio from our cities should be a problem with demand.


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"4 in 1 , 4 x 4" started by Macroscien



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