Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Another one of those hopeful topics that die with

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Created by NotWal > 9 months ago, 22 Sep 2009
Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
2 Oct 2009 5:14PM
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Notwal I have answers but am tired of this thread. I think we all are.
Or would we like to do age of the earth research now

Gestalt
QLD, 14428 posts
2 Oct 2009 7:39PM
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Mark _australia said...

Notwal I have answers but am tired of this thread. I think we all are.
Or would we like to do age of the earth research now


no because we will just end up talking about religion again.

lets talk about aliens.

Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
2 Oct 2009 6:25PM
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No that is still religion..... evolution / Big Bang etc predicts existence of aliens, creation pretty muchs rules them out.

BTW I don't remember us talking abotu religion in this thread at all?

Gestalt
QLD, 14428 posts
2 Oct 2009 8:28PM
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creationism was mentioned a few times.

but ultimately it was sausage that mentioned nuns.

problem is now i can't think about aliens without thinking about robby williams.

Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
2 Oct 2009 6:33PM
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Creationism was not mentioned in a religion sense by me: it was referring the scientific data that is contrary to accepted 'fact' or doctrine or theories etc.

I can't think of aliens without thinking of the hot one in Galaxy Quest, and how the guy ended up with her and got it on with her, but she was in fact an octopus looking thing that just had a humanoid appearance due to some electronic appearance-changing device

NotWal
QLD, 7428 posts
2 Oct 2009 9:08PM
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No don't want to talk about that.

Can anyone explain the Twins Paradox?

The classic paradox in a nutshell :-
A pair of clever twins called Gloria and Jeffrey grow up, get their doctorates and go and work for Star Fleet Command. Gloria gets a job at HQ and Jeffrey gets a job crewing on an old impulse drive space craft and they head off to Alpha Centauri. They stay in touch through the marvel of sub-space communication (a theoretically impossible form of instantaneous communication). Jeffrey accelerates up to ~90% light speed.

When Jeffrey talks to Gloria on the subspace videocom Gloria appears very slow. In fact her time has slowed in accordance with special relativity. At the same time Jeffrey appears slow to Gloria.

They continue on like this chatting occasionally for 10 years, the time for an entire round trip. For the entire time they experience this mutual time discrepancy. However when Jeffrey gets back he's a couple of years younger than Gloria.
How can this be ? Surely they should be mutually affected (although how they could be younger than each other is another conundrum.)

Why is it so?

NotWal
QLD, 7428 posts
2 Oct 2009 9:14PM
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Mark _australia said...

Creationism was not mentioned in a religion sense by me: it was referring the scientific data that is contrary to accepted 'fact' or doctrine or theories etc.

I can't think of aliens without thinking of the hot one in Galaxy Quest, and how the guy ended up with her and got it on with her, but she was in fact an octopus looking thing that just had a humanoid appearance due to some electronic appearance-changing device


An octopus has some limbic appeal I think. Spiders on the other hand... ooooh.

Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
2 Oct 2009 7:23PM
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Frame of reference: he appears younger upon return to earth as he is the one who was travelling (ie time chnaged for him)

If he returned to earth and then you transported both of them instantaneously to Alpha Centauri, then she'd appear younger.

NotWal
QLD, 7428 posts
2 Oct 2009 9:46PM
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Mark _australia said...

Frame of reference: he appears younger upon return to earth as he is the one who was travelling (ie time chnaged for him)

If he returned to earth and then you transported both of them instantaneously to Alpha Centauri, then she'd appear younger.




They are both travelling relative to each other. The "Relativity Principle" says there are no special cases.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
2 Oct 2009 7:50PM
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NotWal said...

No don't want to talk about that.

Can anyone explain the Twins Paradox?

The classic paradox in a nutshell :-
A pair of clever twins called Gloria and Jeffrey grow up, get their doctorates and go and work for Star Fleet Command. Gloria gets a job at HQ and Jeffrey gets a job crewing on an old impulse drive space craft and they head off to Alpha Centauri. They stay in touch through the marvel of sub-space communication (a theoretically impossible form of instantaneous communication). Jeffrey accelerates up to ~90% light speed.

When Jeffrey talks to Gloria on the subspace videocom Gloria appears very slow. In fact her time has slowed in accordance with special relativity. At the same time Jeffrey appears slow to Gloria.

They continue on like this chatting occasionally for 10 years, the time for an entire round trip. For the entire time they experience this mutual time discrepancy. However when Jeffrey gets back he's a couple of years younger than Gloria.
How can this be ? Surely they should be mutually affected (although how they could be younger than each other is another conundrum.)

Why is it so?



When they talk on the phone, shouldn't one twin appear fast, while the other one appears slow?

I don't get it.

Back on earth, if one person takes speed, and the other person is straight, the person on speed appears fast, while the straight person appears slow...

Errr... I don't know how I know this...

Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
2 Oct 2009 8:03PM
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So NotWal is aging slower than me cos he's closer to the equator and moving faster?

Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
2 Oct 2009 8:09PM
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NotWal said...

Mark _australia said...

Frame of reference: he appears younger upon return to earth as he is the one who was travelling (ie time chnaged for him)

If he returned to earth and then you transported both of them instantaneously to Alpha Centauri, then she'd appear younger.




They are both travelling relative to each other. The "Relativity Principle" says there are no special cases.


Noooooo.

The first part (they both appear different to each other (faster / slower) ) is because they are both travelling (relativity as you stated)

But as soon as he returns to earth it is as if he travelled and she did not so he is changed but she is not.

NotWal
QLD, 7428 posts
2 Oct 2009 10:34PM
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Well ... I don't get it. Relative to each other they each have the same experience except that Jeffrey accelerates and turns around.

Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
2 Oct 2009 8:52PM
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Exactly. They have different experiences and age differently so where is the paradox?

Makes sense - people who run down the street and then run back home live longer .... cos they have aged less than the person who stays home (where is the tongue in cheek smiley face?)

NotWal
QLD, 7428 posts
2 Oct 2009 11:32PM
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Went to Wikipedia and saw a page full of maths. Its high school stuff but I don't remember it. Time for a maths update.

All right then. Tell us about the young Earth. I'd be very much surprised if I need maths for that :)

Gestalt
QLD, 14428 posts
2 Oct 2009 11:53PM
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they both age the same amount but the one traveling the speed of light ages slower relative to the one not travelling the speed of light.

because as you approach the speed of light time slows down.

time dialation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity

edit,

the paradox is that if you went back in time and killed your father you would not be born.

solution is as you have been born there must be another version of your father in a paralell timeline.

Gestalt
QLD, 14428 posts
2 Oct 2009 11:56PM
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Mark _australia said...

Creationism was not mentioned in a religion sense by me: it was referring the scientific data that is contrary to accepted 'fact' or doctrine or theories etc.



no worries.

NotWal
QLD, 7428 posts
3 Oct 2009 12:17AM
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Gestalt said...

they both age the same amount but the one traveling the speed of light ages slower relative to the one not travelling the speed of light.

because as you approach the speed of light time slows down.

time dialation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity

edit,

the paradox is that if you went back in time and killed your father you would not be born.

solution is as you have been born there must be another version of your father in a paralell timeline.


Or I am my father's father. I dunno but its all about rellos isn't it. That must be where Evolution comes in.

Mark _australia
WA, 22521 posts
2 Oct 2009 10:19PM
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NotWal said...

Went to Wikipedia and saw a page full of maths. Its high school stuff but I don't remember it. Time for a maths update.

All right then. Tell us about the young Earth. I'd be very much surprised if I need maths for that :)


I just had a look at it and it is interesting until the maths is presented

Young earth? OK at risk of being labelled a stirrer here are calculated maximum ages for the earth based on measurements (warning- long)


1. Receding Moon
750 m.y.a. max

2. Oil Pressure
5,000 - 10,000 years

3. The Sun
1,000,000 years max

4. The Oldest Living Thing
4,900 years max

5. Helium in the Atmosphere
1,750,000 years max

6. Short Period Comets
5,000 - 10,000 years

7. The Earth's Magnetic Field
10,000 years max

8. C-14 Dating of Dino Bones
10,000 - 50,000 years

9A. Dinosaur Blood and Ancient DNA
5,000 - 50,000 years

9B. Unfossilized Dinosaur Bones 5,000 - 50,000 years
9C. 165 Million Year Old Ligaments 5,000 - 50,000 years
10. Axel Heiberg Island
5,000 - 10,000 years

11. Carbon-14 in Atmosphere
10,000 years max

12. The Dead Sea
13,000 years max

13. Niagara Falls
5,000 - 8,800 years max

14. Historical Records
5,000 years max

15. The San Andreas Fault
5,000 - 10,000 years

16. Mitochondrial Eve
6,500 years

17. Population Growth
10,000 years max

18. Minerals in the Oceans Various (mostly young) Ages
19. Rapid Mountain Uplift Less than 10 million years
20. Carbon 14 from "Old" Sources 10,000 to 50,000 years
21. Dark Matter and Spiral Galaxies 100 - 500 million years (max)
22. Helium and lead in Zircons 6,000 years


Read all the explanation at www.earthage.org/youngearthev/evidence_for_a_young_earth.htm
just ignore soem of the God stuff at the beginning and read the science.

Gestalt
QLD, 14428 posts
3 Oct 2009 12:25AM
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nope it's about aliens.

NotWal said...

Gestalt said...

they both age the same amount but the one traveling the speed of light ages slower relative to the one not travelling the speed of light.

because as you approach the speed of light time slows down.

time dialation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity

edit,

the paradox is that if you went back in time and killed your father you would not be born.

solution is as you have been born there must be another version of your father in a paralell timeline.


Or I am my father's father. I dunno but its all about rellos isn't it. That must be where Evolution comes in.



Gestalt
QLD, 14428 posts
3 Oct 2009 12:27AM
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must be the mormans again.

Mark _australia said...

NotWal said...

Went to Wikipedia and saw a page full of maths. Its high school stuff but I don't remember it. Time for a maths update.

All right then. Tell us about the young Earth. I'd be very much surprised if I need maths for that :)


I just had a look at it and it is interesting until the maths is presented

Young earth? OK at risk of being labelled a stirrer here are calculated maximum ages for the earth based on measurements (warning- long)


1. Receding Moon
750 m.y.a. max

2. Oil Pressure
5,000 - 10,000 years

3. The Sun
1,000,000 years max

4. The Oldest Living Thing
4,900 years max

5. Helium in the Atmosphere
1,750,000 years max

6. Short Period Comets
5,000 - 10,000 years

7. The Earth's Magnetic Field
10,000 years max

8. C-14 Dating of Dino Bones
10,000 - 50,000 years

9A. Dinosaur Blood and Ancient DNA
5,000 - 50,000 years

9B. Unfossilized Dinosaur Bones 5,000 - 50,000 years
9C. 165 Million Year Old Ligaments 5,000 - 50,000 years
10. Axel Heiberg Island
5,000 - 10,000 years

11. Carbon-14 in Atmosphere
10,000 years max

12. The Dead Sea
13,000 years max

13. Niagara Falls
5,000 - 8,800 years max

14. Historical Records
5,000 years max

15. The San Andreas Fault
5,000 - 10,000 years

16. Mitochondrial Eve
6,500 years

17. Population Growth
10,000 years max

18. Minerals in the Oceans Various (mostly young) Ages
19. Rapid Mountain Uplift Less than 10 million years
20. Carbon 14 from "Old" Sources 10,000 to 50,000 years
21. Dark Matter and Spiral Galaxies 100 - 500 million years (max)
22. Helium and lead in Zircons 6,000 years


Read all the explanation at www.earthage.org/youngearthev/evidence_for_a_young_earth.htm
just ignore soem of the God stuff at the beginning and read the science.




Gestalt
QLD, 14428 posts
3 Oct 2009 12:28AM
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i just figured out why speed sailors are so happy,

as they are travelling faster than all of us they are infact slowing down time and therefore an hour for us on the water is actually 3 hours for them;.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
3 Oct 2009 1:08AM
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Mark _australia said...



2. Oil Pressure
5,000 - 10,000 years



When oil wells are drilled, the oil is almost always found to be under great pressure. This presents a problem for those who claim "millions of years" for the age of oil, simply because rocks are porous. In other words, as time goes by the oil should seep into tiny pores in the surrounding rock, and, over time, reduce the pressure. However, for some reason it doesn't. Perhaps that's because all of our oil deposits were created as a result of Noah's Flood, about 4600 years ago? Some scientists say that after about 10,000 years little pressure should be left.

Are you sure this wasn't posted on rense.com?

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
3 Oct 2009 9:59AM
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Mark _australia said...
Read all the explanation at www.earthage.org/youngearthev/evidence_for_a_young_earth.htm
just ignore soem of the God stuff at the beginning and read the science.




I actually ignored all of the god stuff and couldn't find anything else to read.

That has to be the biggest load of codswallop* I have ever wasted my time reading. 22 "clocks" (indicators) that irrefutably confirm the age of the earth between 10000 to 6000 y.o. Sorry, but anyone who believes that's science, probably believes the earth is still flat and has more than one wife.

*had to use old timer's language here

Gestalt
QLD, 14428 posts
3 Oct 2009 10:26AM
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sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
3 Oct 2009 10:42AM
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^^ Do you eat bananas? - now that's scientific proof we evolved from monkeys. Very similar to the logic of the Young Earth proponents.

Gestalt
QLD, 14428 posts
3 Oct 2009 10:52AM
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ali g is gold

this one is a little more topical. bill hicks is the master.

is the world 10000 years old?



do aliens exist?



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Another one of those hopeful topics that die with" started by NotWal