Select to expand quotepweedas said..Macroscien said..pweedas said..
If you are cutting jarrah then it's a fact of life that it is hard on chains, specially if the jarrah is old and dry and even more so if the jarrah is old and dry with white ants and thus sand in it. If this is the case you have to accept that the chain is a consumable item.
However the chain life can be made reasonable if you get a number of things right. I cut a whole years firewood on one chain and I use a lot of it. Literally tons of it.
I mostly cut old fallen jarrah for firewood because it burns all night, it makes lots of heat and it makes almost no ash.
But because it is all fallen timber on the ground it usually has some degree of ants and sand in it. I don't like to waste it so I just count the cost of a chain each year as a consumable item.
Stihl are reasonably good chain saws, even the cheaper ones, so the chain saw is probably not the problem, so,.. a bit of advice that might help;
If you are cutting hardwood, sharpen the chain regularly. I've seen people cutting jarrah and it appears they think it works like an angle grinder and you just smoke your way through a log with lots of high revs and bar pressure.
I've seen a chain literally smoking its way through a log.
If the chain is smoking then it is hot enough to wreck the tempering on the teeth. The teeth will then not hold a sharpen. If it starts smoking STOP cutting. Check for sharpness and chain oil. I carry an oil squirter and sometimes give the chain and end roller a small squirt if think it looks to be getting a bit too warm. Old knotty jarrah can be as hard as stone but it burns a right treat so I use it.
Keep the chain SHARP, and I do mean sharp. Give it a regular quick lick with the right size file for the chain. Every 15 minutes of cutting it gets a quick lick. Two or three licks on each tooth are enough if you do it regularly and it only takes about 10 minutes total, even when you do it slowly like I do it.
File the angle correct and consistent on all teeth and also on each side, left cutting teeth and then right cutting teeth. A consistent angle is probably more important than the exact correct angle.
To help with this, do all the left cutting teeth and then do another lap of the chain and do all the right cutting teeth, or the other way around if you prefer. That way the angle will be easier to keep constant. Use leather gloves to pull the chain through.
Sharpened teeth will cut a nice groove in your hand if it slips when pulling the chain through so BE CAREFUL. The chain is oily so very easy to slip in your hand.
If you do each side differently the cut will tend to drift one way or the other so use a file guard which has angle markings and then USE THE SAME ANGLE on every tooth, both left and right. Even if the angle is wrong it is more important to make them wrong all the same.
Make sure you are clear on the point on the chain where you start. Don't do one and a half laps of the chain,.. one is enough. One tooth too many is not required.
I always start at the part of the chain which has two teeth the same way, that is two left teeth or two right teeth. Most chains have this to stop resonant chain vibrations while cutting so look for it and start there.
You can use a marker if you prefer but then you don't always have a marker, but the 'two teeth together' point is always there.
After sharpening, you should be able to feel a razor like edge on the teeth as you slide your finger lightly over them. I said,. LIGHTLY! 
Even a dull chain will still feel a little bit sharp because your fingers are a lot softer than jarrah, but it wont cut hardwood. You need it razor sharp so that you can feel it bight at your finger when you test it.
You can tell if the chain is sharp by the size of the sawdust it throws out the back. The sawdust out the back of the chain saw with properly sharp teeth will be sizeable shreds of wood, not just a fine sand sized dust.
Keep an eye on what's coming out the back of the saw. It will indicate the condition of the chain. If you want a takeaway sample you can usually find it in your socks. 
If it's a fine dust then either the teeth are blunt, or if it is an old chain then possibly the depth links between the teeth are too high. If so then file them down. MAKE THEM ALL THE SAME.
For hardwood like jarrah, I file them down a bit too far, about 1mm. The wood is too hard to allow the chain to bight in excessively so shorter depth links make it easier to saw with a light bar pressure.
If you are sawing softwood like pine or banksia then stick to the recommended depth, otherwise, the chain tends to bight in too deep and load up the chainsaw excessively.
Make sure the oil feed is working properly, and by that I mean that the oil should need filling after about half an hour of cutting. That's 'cutting', not just standing there thinking about it. If the oil is flowing too slow then you can use a lighter oil. Ordinary 30 grade engine oil is fine.
Most of the cheaper electric chainsaws have a foam filter which restrict the oil flow too much so use the thinner oil. Thinner oil s better than no oil. A more permanent solution is to remove the foam plug in the oil feed line at the bottom of the oil tank, but be aware that if you get sawdust in the oil tank (but then why would you) then the oil feed can be blocked off.
MAKE SURE YOU KEEP THE CHAIN TIGHT, not slopping and slapping around in the chain bar grove. I prefer it a bit overtight than loose. A sloppy chain seems to wear out much faster than a tight chain and it flogs out the bar much faster.
And a loose chain is harder to do a straight cut. Not that it matters much with firewood but get in the habit of cutting straight so you can do it when you need to.
Make sure the chain bar lock is done up really tight otherwise when the chain chatters it will flog out the chain tension mechanism.
The tension mechanism is for ADJUSTING the chain tension. It's not meant to be the primary means of keeping the chain tight.
Set the chain tension and then do up the bar lock tight!
And now for OHS,
Wear leather gloves while cutting and for sharpening the chain.
Wear some sort of eye protection. The sawdust can get thrown in your face. A woodchip in the eye is no fun. They are quite gritty.
Don't hold your face over the chain bar in line with the chain. Always have it to one side. A serious kickback can happen much faster than you can move your face. Yes I know, modern saws have a kickback lockout but it can still happen.
Don't hold your leg under the cutting line where the chain is going to drop out of the cut when it's finished.
If it's an electric chainsaw, don't have the power cord trailing under the work area. Run it in from behind you and to one side
If the saw consumes its own power cord you can get electroluxed, specially on wet grass
There is no 'Esc' or 'Replay' key. Whatever happens is it !
All obvious stuff but easy to get wrong if you're not thinking.
In summary, DON'T USE A CHAIN SAW IF YOU ARE NATURALLY ACCIDENT PRONE. (Yes, you know who you are. 
)
This all sounds like an awful lot but it's like most other things in life, if you get in the habit of doing it right then it eventually it happens without thinking about it and the job goes predictably well.
If you keep doing it wrong then it usually ends up being a mammoth task each time and really annoying dealing with the consequences.
Interesting reading.
one more question.
How long file last? or how many chains can sharpen?
I have standard Stihl file and found that recently I need to push , press more and more.
Maybe file is too worn out or chain too long in use between sharpening? Is it worth to invest in electric sharpener? I am afraid that electric could cut too much and too quickly trough chains.How long chain last and when do you know that need new one? I went through a dozen chains already
Files are dirt cheap so one file per chain is reasonable. You can make them last much longer than that. It just depends on how much time you want to waste rasping away with a blunt file. If you have to press really hard on the file then get a new file.
Buy a chain plus the file to suit, i.e the right diameter. You only need to buy the file and fit it to the guide you bought years ago.
Don't bother with an electric sharpener. I bought one many years ago but I only used it for one season. It was far too slow to set it all up each time and was no use out in the paddocks. It was only some use if the teeth got all uneven due to sloppy sharpening; that is, by ignoring all that I said previously.
Get used to sharpening the chain out in the paddock rather than swapping chains or taking it back to the shed to set it all up in a vice or other fancy stuff. It's not needed.
I Just put a small piece of plywood over the corner of the trailer and use that as a bench top. Use a short stick or cut off branch to fit the gap between the chain and the bench to help keep the chain bar from moving around when you file it. Hold the chain with one hand firmly just behind the link you want to sharpen and then with the other hand, file two or three light licks across the tooth.
Make sure the file is contacting the whole cutting profile of the tooth, not just one part of it. I use a pair of 'coke bottle' glasses so I can see the file contacting the cutting face. (If you're not blind as a worm then you won't need these.) If you keep the correct angle or at least a uniform angle then this will happen automatically.
Drag the chain to the next tooth of the same side (which means every second tooth), then file that one, then same again,.. and again until you come back to the starting point.
By doing this, the tooth you are working on is always in the same relative position to you which makes it much easier to file each tooth with some sort of uniformity, which is a major point of the exercise; uniformity of cutting teeth.
If the file skates a bit on a particular tooth then give it a bit extra. The idea is to remove a similar amount of metal from each tooth.
It is much faster to do all this than it is to explain it. Each side takes about three minutes tops. i.e one lap of the chain takes three minutes. Then another three minutes to moan about your sore back from leaning over the saw.
Then another three minutes for another lap of the chain to repeat the procedure for the other side teeth.
You can use the same chain until there is no more tooth to file away, just so long as the tooth still has a complete cutting profile. That is, the top cutting edge of the tooth has to be the complete width of the chain. Once this cannot be maintained then the chain is officially dead.
I just buy cheap chains. The expensive ones are better but since I cut in dirt quite a bit I prefer the cheap chains.
By using cheap chains it improves my day by not having to stress every time I see a stream of sparks coming out the back of the saw when I run into a white ant trail in the log being cut.
I bought a whole lot for about $25 each some years ago and am still chewing my way through them.
Unless you are using the saw a huge amount, like all day every weekend,.. a single chain should last a year or more, unless you are constantly running the chain in the dirt or something equally abusive. I treat my chains with very little respect and they typically last at least a year. When the teeth are three quarters worn then I use that saw for all the really crappy jobs which I know are going to wreck the chain. It's surprising even then how long they carry on.
One chain bar is good for about three chains. Eventually the chain guide groove wears so wide that it's impossible to saw a straight cut. That is mostly due to cutting dirty wood. If the wood was always clean a bar should last many years.
I suppose I should add that sharpening the chain while still on the chain bar contributes to the demise of the chain bar because some of the filings inevitably end up in the chain bar groove and that can't be good for it. I have no idea how much longer the bar would last if the chain was removed from the bar before sharpening because I've never done it that way. If someone knows, then they can make a comment.
Great instruction. One more question.
What about the filing with flat file to adjust height? Any practical tips? To be fair I did never file that one yet. Just found that sharpening chain does't help at some stage and needed to get new one. This way I may have abut 10 chains that possibly still are usable,as have plenty of teeth left. But somehow I found not cutting into wood well - making big sacrifice to chainsaw motor - which need now to work few minuted on small tree to fall instead od 30 seconds. I usually fall trees up to 20 -25 cm diameter to clean paths in bushes. Some are gum but some ironbark. I found that cutting something laying on the ground is very taxing for the chain. I could work whole day on fresh trees but few runs to clear laying down and chain is done, blunt completely. Even without any sand.
Completely another part of the job is cleaning bushes with chainsaw.
Lantana is easy but another type is very hard and springy. Usually few minutes and get chain of the bar, even if taking utmost care.
Sill I found chainsaw the most efficient and fastest to clean brushes. After trying all sorts of circular and triangular blades to trimmers- chainsaw is the best .I wish somebody will design , invent a chainsaw, bar combination without chain falling off constantly. I have even some idea. If we could do a bar with "closed" groove , instead open C then chain on straight line will be prevented from falling off .Maybe this bar is not needed for falling trees but for clearing bushes will be ideal. Very similar problem I have with chainsaw attachment to the trimmers. chain is falling off constantly and more then 50% of the time takes chain fitting instead of work done.
I use small Stihl 180 that already exceed all my expectations. Lightweight and powerful enough to do all work I need . Can go sometimes thought almost a meter of diameter trunk with easy ( I use new chain for such occasions) .
Hi i'm probably going to get smashed for this but i use my file in a cordless drill because the tang snapped off using the file guide. I find i'm getting a really good result with it compared to hand filling admittedly it is my chainsaw filling so could be aweful.
any masive problems with this that any one can see? i obviousley use a drawing action and don't leave it one spot I'm actually aircraft structures by trade so filling is second nature to me and i can almost estimate filling angles with both eye's closed.
I can't believe how useful this thread has been to amatuer arborists.
One-handed filing! Even the pros use vices. ~ 7 minutes.
Macro - the more questions you pose the more I get scared for your wellbeing using a saw.
Its clear from your description that you are not filing the raker tooth down (using a flat file) so the cutting tooth never engages with the wood. Ask for a raker gauge at your local shop and a quality flat file. Don't take the raker down too far as its the raker that reduces kickback and reducing the raker depth too far causes increased kickback and additional vibration. I have seen exhaust holding studs rattle loose dropping the hot arrestor screen onto the chassis and burning a hole into the Bar lube chamber - twice - same operator taking rakers down too far for "efficiency"
Using a cordy to sharpen ....ingenious if your angles are good.....horrendous if they are not
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
Lantana is easy but another type is very hard and springy. Usually few minutes and get chain of the bar, even if taking utmost care.
Sill I found chainsaw the most efficient and fastest to clean brushes. After trying all sorts of circular and triangular blades to trimmers- chainsaw is the best .I wish somebody will design , invent a chainsaw, bar combination without chain falling off constantly. I have even some idea. If we could do a bar with "closed" groove , instead open C then chain on straight line will be prevented from falling off .Maybe this bar is not needed for falling trees but for clearing bushes will be ideal. Very similar problem I have with chainsaw attachment to the trimmers. chain is falling off constantly and more then 50% of the time takes chain fitting instead of work done.
I use small Stihl 180 that already exceed all my expectations. Lightweight and powerful enough to do all work I need . Can go sometimes thought almost a meter of diameter trunk with easy ( I use new chain for such occasions) .
Lantana! I've chainsawed acres of that. You keep thinking this is the wrong tool for the job. You need the horsepower of the smallest saw combined with the cutter bar of the longest. I used a husky 435 with a 17 inch bar. Small stems taken at an angle are the worst for flipping chains. And then the runners get burred, filing them smooth takes far longer than sharpening a chain.
Select to expand quoteIan K said..
One-handed filing! Even the pros use vices. ~ 7 minutes.
After a while you can judge how deep the file should sit in the gullet and adjust the up/down component of pressure if necessary. The chain should stay put on friction while filing. Not that I'm a tooth tuning expert. Wasn't consistently working with large diameter logs to become one. New chains do go sweetly - until you hit the first brick and chip a few teeth. Taking all teeth back to the same size isn't an option for some of us. I guess in small diameter cuts where only a couple of teeth are cutting it's not so important. A gappy chain still works OK on large diameter stems but never quite like a new one.
great stuff,
raker, that it is ,
now I know what to do with this.
need to buy this raker guage first
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..pweedas said..Macroscien said..pweedas said..
If you are cutting jarrah then it's a fact of life that it is hard on chains, specially if the jarrah is old and dry and even more so if the jarrah is old and dry with white ants and thus sand in it. If this is the case you have to accept that the chain is a consumable item.
However the chain life can be made reasonable if you get a number of things right. I cut a whole years firewood on one chain and I use a lot of it. Literally tons of it.
I mostly cut old fallen jarrah for firewood because it burns all night, it makes lots of heat and it makes almost no ash.
But because it is all fallen timber on the ground it usually has some degree of ants and sand in it. I don't like to waste it so I just count the cost of a chain each year as a consumable item.
Stihl are reasonably good chain saws, even the cheaper ones, so the chain saw is probably not the problem, so,.. a bit of advice that might help;
If you are cutting hardwood, sharpen the chain regularly. I've seen people cutting jarrah and it appears they think it works like an angle grinder and you just smoke your way through a log with lots of high revs and bar pressure.
I've seen a chain literally smoking its way through a log.
If the chain is smoking then it is hot enough to wreck the tempering on the teeth. The teeth will then not hold a sharpen. If it starts smoking STOP cutting. Check for sharpness and chain oil. I carry an oil squirter and sometimes give the chain and end roller a small squirt if think it looks to be getting a bit too warm. Old knotty jarrah can be as hard as stone but it burns a right treat so I use it.
Keep the chain SHARP, and I do mean sharp. Give it a regular quick lick with the right size file for the chain. Every 15 minutes of cutting it gets a quick lick. Two or three licks on each tooth are enough if you do it regularly and it only takes about 10 minutes total, even when you do it slowly like I do it.
File the angle correct and consistent on all teeth and also on each side, left cutting teeth and then right cutting teeth. A consistent angle is probably more important than the exact correct angle.
To help with this, do all the left cutting teeth and then do another lap of the chain and do all the right cutting teeth, or the other way around if you prefer. That way the angle will be easier to keep constant. Use leather gloves to pull the chain through.
Sharpened teeth will cut a nice groove in your hand if it slips when pulling the chain through so BE CAREFUL. The chain is oily so very easy to slip in your hand.
If you do each side differently the cut will tend to drift one way or the other so use a file guard which has angle markings and then USE THE SAME ANGLE on every tooth, both left and right. Even if the angle is wrong it is more important to make them wrong all the same.
Make sure you are clear on the point on the chain where you start. Don't do one and a half laps of the chain,.. one is enough. One tooth too many is not required.
I always start at the part of the chain which has two teeth the same way, that is two left teeth or two right teeth. Most chains have this to stop resonant chain vibrations while cutting so look for it and start there.
You can use a marker if you prefer but then you don't always have a marker, but the 'two teeth together' point is always there.
After sharpening, you should be able to feel a razor like edge on the teeth as you slide your finger lightly over them. I said,. LIGHTLY!
Even a dull chain will still feel a little bit sharp because your fingers are a lot softer than jarrah, but it wont cut hardwood. You need it razor sharp so that you can feel it bight at your finger when you test it.
You can tell if the chain is sharp by the size of the sawdust it throws out the back. The sawdust out the back of the chain saw with properly sharp teeth will be sizeable shreds of wood, not just a fine sand sized dust.
Keep an eye on what's coming out the back of the saw. It will indicate the condition of the chain. If you want a takeaway sample you can usually find it in your socks. If it's a fine dust then either the teeth are blunt, or if it is an old chain then possibly the depth links between the teeth are too high. If so then file them down. MAKE THEM ALL THE SAME.
For hardwood like jarrah, I file them down a bit too far, about 1mm. The wood is too hard to allow the chain to bight in excessively so shorter depth links make it easier to saw with a light bar pressure.
If you are sawing softwood like pine or banksia then stick to the recommended depth, otherwise, the chain tends to bight in too deep and load up the chainsaw excessively.
Make sure the oil feed is working properly, and by that I mean that the oil should need filling after about half an hour of cutting. That's 'cutting', not just standing there thinking about it. If the oil is flowing too slow then you can use a lighter oil. Ordinary 30 grade engine oil is fine.
Most of the cheaper electric chainsaws have a foam filter which restrict the oil flow too much so use the thinner oil. Thinner oil s better than no oil. A more permanent solution is to remove the foam plug in the oil feed line at the bottom of the oil tank, but be aware that if you get sawdust in the oil tank (but then why would you) then the oil feed can be blocked off.
MAKE SURE YOU KEEP THE CHAIN TIGHT, not slopping and slapping around in the chain bar grove. I prefer it a bit overtight than loose. A sloppy chain seems to wear out much faster than a tight chain and it flogs out the bar much faster.
And a loose chain is harder to do a straight cut. Not that it matters much with firewood but get in the habit of cutting straight so you can do it when you need to.
Make sure the chain bar lock is done up really tight otherwise when the chain chatters it will flog out the chain tension mechanism.
The tension mechanism is for ADJUSTING the chain tension. It's not meant to be the primary means of keeping the chain tight.
Set the chain tension and then do up the bar lock tight!
And now for OHS,
Wear leather gloves while cutting and for sharpening the chain.
Wear some sort of eye protection. The sawdust can get thrown in your face. A woodchip in the eye is no fun. They are quite gritty.
Don't hold your face over the chain bar in line with the chain. Always have it to one side. A serious kickback can happen much faster than you can move your face. Yes I know, modern saws have a kickback lockout but it can still happen.
Don't hold your leg under the cutting line where the chain is going to drop out of the cut when it's finished.
If it's an electric chainsaw, don't have the power cord trailing under the work area. Run it in from behind you and to one side
If the saw consumes its own power cord you can get electroluxed, specially on wet grass
There is no 'Esc' or 'Replay' key. Whatever happens is it !
All obvious stuff but easy to get wrong if you're not thinking.
In summary, DON'T USE A CHAIN SAW IF YOU ARE NATURALLY ACCIDENT PRONE. (Yes, you know who you are. )
This all sounds like an awful lot but it's like most other things in life, if you get in the habit of doing it right then it eventually it happens without thinking about it and the job goes predictably well.
If you keep doing it wrong then it usually ends up being a mammoth task each time and really annoying dealing with the consequences.
Interesting reading.
one more question.
How long file last? or how many chains can sharpen?
I have standard Stihl file and found that recently I need to push , press more and more.
Maybe file is too worn out or chain too long in use between sharpening? Is it worth to invest in electric sharpener? I am afraid that electric could cut too much and too quickly trough chains.How long chain last and when do you know that need new one? I went through a dozen chains already
Files are dirt cheap so one file per chain is reasonable. You can make them last much longer than that. It just depends on how much time you want to waste rasping away with a blunt file. If you have to press really hard on the file then get a new file.
Buy a chain plus the file to suit, i.e the right diameter. You only need to buy the file and fit it to the guide you bought years ago.
Don't bother with an electric sharpener. I bought one many years ago but I only used it for one season. It was far too slow to set it all up each time and was no use out in the paddocks. It was only some use if the teeth got all uneven due to sloppy sharpening; that is, by ignoring all that I said previously.
Get used to sharpening the chain out in the paddock rather than swapping chains or taking it back to the shed to set it all up in a vice or other fancy stuff. It's not needed.
I Just put a small piece of plywood over the corner of the trailer and use that as a bench top. Use a short stick or cut off branch to fit the gap between the chain and the bench to help keep the chain bar from moving around when you file it. Hold the chain with one hand firmly just behind the link you want to sharpen and then with the other hand, file two or three light licks across the tooth.
Make sure the file is contacting the whole cutting profile of the tooth, not just one part of it. I use a pair of 'coke bottle' glasses so I can see the file contacting the cutting face. (If you're not blind as a worm then you won't need these.) If you keep the correct angle or at least a uniform angle then this will happen automatically.
Drag the chain to the next tooth of the same side (which means every second tooth), then file that one, then same again,.. and again until you come back to the starting point.
By doing this, the tooth you are working on is always in the same relative position to you which makes it much easier to file each tooth with some sort of uniformity, which is a major point of the exercise; uniformity of cutting teeth.
If the file skates a bit on a particular tooth then give it a bit extra. The idea is to remove a similar amount of metal from each tooth.
It is much faster to do all this than it is to explain it. Each side takes about three minutes tops. i.e one lap of the chain takes three minutes. Then another three minutes to moan about your sore back from leaning over the saw.
Then another three minutes for another lap of the chain to repeat the procedure for the other side teeth.
You can use the same chain until there is no more tooth to file away, just so long as the tooth still has a complete cutting profile. That is, the top cutting edge of the tooth has to be the complete width of the chain. Once this cannot be maintained then the chain is officially dead.
I just buy cheap chains. The expensive ones are better but since I cut in dirt quite a bit I prefer the cheap chains.
By using cheap chains it improves my day by not having to stress every time I see a stream of sparks coming out the back of the saw when I run into a white ant trail in the log being cut.
I bought a whole lot for about $25 each some years ago and am still chewing my way through them.
Unless you are using the saw a huge amount, like all day every weekend,.. a single chain should last a year or more, unless you are constantly running the chain in the dirt or something equally abusive. I treat my chains with very little respect and they typically last at least a year. When the teeth are three quarters worn then I use that saw for all the really crappy jobs which I know are going to wreck the chain. It's surprising even then how long they carry on.
One chain bar is good for about three chains. Eventually the chain guide groove wears so wide that it's impossible to saw a straight cut. That is mostly due to cutting dirty wood. If the wood was always clean a bar should last many years.
I suppose I should add that sharpening the chain while still on the chain bar contributes to the demise of the chain bar because some of the filings inevitably end up in the chain bar groove and that can't be good for it. I have no idea how much longer the bar would last if the chain was removed from the bar before sharpening because I've never done it that way. If someone knows, then they can make a comment.
Great instruction. One more question.
What about the filing with flat file to adjust height? Any practical tips? To be fair I did never file that one yet. Just found that sharpening chain does't help at some stage and needed to get new one. This way I may have abut 10 chains that possibly still are usable,as have plenty of teeth left. But somehow I found not cutting into wood well - making big sacrifice to chainsaw motor - which need now to work few minuted on small tree to fall instead of 30 seconds. I usually fall trees up to 20 -25 cm diameter to clean paths in bushes. Some are gum but some ironbark. I found that cutting something laying on the ground is very taxing for the chain. I could work whole day on fresh trees but few runs to clear laying down and chain is done, blunt completely. Even without any sand.
Completely another part of the job is cleaning bushes with chainsaw.
Lantana is easy but another type is very hard and springy. Usually few minutes and get chain of the bar, even if taking utmost care.
Sill I found chainsaw the most efficient and fastest to clean brushes. After trying all sorts of circular and triangular blades to trimmers- chainsaw is the best .I wish somebody will design , invent a chainsaw, bar combination without chain falling off constantly. I have even some idea. If we could do a bar with "closed" groove , instead open C then chain on straight line will be prevented from falling off .Maybe this bar is not needed for falling trees but for clearing bushes will be ideal. Very similar problem I have with chainsaw attachment to the trimmers. chain is falling off constantly and more then 50% of the time takes chain fitting instead of work done.
I use small Stihl 180 that already exceed all my expectations. Lightweight and powerful enough to do all work I need . Can go sometimes thought almost a meter of diameter trunk with easy ( I use new chain for such occasions) .
Re;
"Usually few minutes and get chain of the bar, even if taking utmost care."
Chain falling off constantly is always because the chain is too loose. Read my first post where I mentioned a number of times to make sure the chain is tight. A loose chain will always drop off the drive sprocket when the chain starts to rattle or flog around.
Providing the chain oil system is working properly a tight chain will last very much longer than a loose chain falling off all the time. If the oil feed is not working properly then it shouldn't be used at all.
Also ,again,..keep the bar locked tight. If it is loose then you will flog out the chain tension mechanism. Read first post reply.
Plus,.. If it is loose then the oil feed does not get forced into the chain groove. It just runs over the outside of the chain bar.
Added in EDIT cos I forgot to mention it earlier,..
To check if the oil feed is working, when you first start the saw for the day and before your first cut, put the nose of the blade about 10cm from a clean surface, clean log or fence post, and rev the saw for about 20 to 30 seconds and you should see an intermittent spray of oil from the front of the chain onto whatever you are aiming at. Sometimes it takes a bit longer if the oil system is not primed. Just keep going until you see the oil spray. It is intermittent because the oil pump works that way, about one pump every 3 or 4 seconds. It doesn't spray much oil so look closely. You can see it easily on a clean log. If there is no oil visible after a minute or two then don't just use it anyway in the belief that it will save you time to look at it later. It will cost you lots of time later plus a new chain plus a lot of annoyance. If you want to be sure then check it all out before you leave the shed.
When it is all set up right it 'makes your day' to see everything going like it should.
Now,.. does any of this sound familiar to windsurfing and taking the time to setting up your sail right BEFORE you go out on the water?
The exact same principle applies.
Re;
"To be fair I did never file that one yet. Just found that sharpening chain doesn't help at some stage and needed to get new one."
Yes,, I think you have a shed full of near new chains just waiting for a bit of maintenance. 
If they have teeth then they are still good. You can send them to me if you are intent on throwing them out. 
If you look closely at the cutting teeth, the top surface is angled downwards towards the rear, i.e the trailing edge is lower than the leading edge. Therefore, as you sharpen the tooth more and more times, the tooth gets lower and lower. If you don't file the depth gauge links (rakers) down then eventually the chain will just ride along on them rather than the cutting teeth. I mentioned this in my first post on this subject.
I like to file them down too much because it makes it easier to run the saw through hardwood. The only down side is that in softwood the chain can dig in too much and overload or stall the motor. That's easy to avoid once you get used to it and with a bit of practice you can drive the cut through with the motor perfectly loaded. Since I mostly use an electric for logs up to 40cm stalling is not a problem. Just back off the cut and the motor immediately runs up again.
Re;
"I wish somebody will design , invent a chainsaw, bar combination without chain falling off constantly."
Maaaaaate,.. they've done it already ,.. and you've got one right there,.. but you have to set it up properly.
Select to expand quotepweedas said..
Re;
"I wish somebody will design , invent a chainsaw, bar combination without chain falling off constantly."
Maaaaaate,.. they've done it already ,.. and you've got one right there,.. but you have to set it up properly.
With all respect, this time that dropping chain is regardless how much tension is on.
Cutting trough thin but hard bushes cause sometimes strong lateral force that pull the chain off that bar.
you run chainsaw in horizontal position to cut bunch of thin , springy bunch and one of those sticks is taking chain off the bar.
We may need completely new mechanism to run chain on the track instead of the grove to absolutely prevent such accident.
Possibly already done , made somewhere as most of the things that I do invent myself. But never saw such bars or chains on the market.
It could be promoted as special bar, chain to cut trough bushes rather then tree trunks. Few minutes swap and a lot of time and nerves saved.
this is how I do imagine cross section of bush capable chainsaw bar
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
With all respect, this time that dropping chain is regardless how much tension is on.
Cutting trough thin but hard bushes cause sometimes strong lateral force that pull the chain off that bar.
you run chainsaw in horizontal position to cut bunch of thin , springy bunch and one of those sticks is taking chain off the bar.
We may need completely new mechanism to run chain on the track instead of the grove to absolutely prevent such accident.
Possibly already done , made somewhere as most of the things that I do invent myself. But never saw such bars or chains on the market.
It could be promoted as special bar, chain to cut trough bushes rather then tree trunks. Few minutes swap and a lot of time and nerves saved.
this is how I do imagine cross section of bush capable chainsaw bar
That's what we found. A tighter chain is the first thing you think of, but nah doesn't help. Chainsaws weren't designed for cutting through a tangle of small stems but of all the alternatives they are best. Getting the revs up before hitting the tangle seems to help. The tooth being wider than the depth gauge might cause them to catch on a narrow stem taken at an angle. Wider depth gauges?
A properly adjusted chain doesn't just fall off from hitting a springy twig. Things to be mindful of are stretched chain from being used dull or / and worn drive sprocket just like a motorcycle drive chain gets tight and loose when turned by hand when stretched, these chains tend to fall off. Also oiling regimes more in heavy dirty work not so much doodling around in little branches, if you have an unajustable oiling system have a oil can handy. Sometimes you can run so many chains over the same bar it might need to be closed up a bit or more likely dressed square, turn the bar over regularly and clean it out when you do. if you don't torment a bar with blunt/ poorly sharpened chains it will last a long time. In short blunt chains burn bars, screw drive sprockets and don't cut. If you where to use such a chain on big saws it's possible to break the chain and depending on your sawing position it could be very ugly.
This has become a chainsaw maintenance thread, so I will now show my ignorance. I use those pole-pruner attachments, and have taken them further than they are meant to go, and still have all fingers and toes intact. So far...
Is it normal practice to put chains on, run them for a while and then tighten them up again or am I doing something wrong? My impression is that the initiall running of them stretches them and heats them, and then after this a proper tightening then sets it to go. Is that normal?
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
This has become a chainsaw maintenance thread, so I will now show my ignorance. I use those pole-pruner attachments, and have taken them further than they are meant to go, and still have all fingers and toes intact. So far...
Is it normal practice to put chains on, run them for a while and then tighten them up again or am I doing something wrong? My impression is that the initiall running of them stretches them and heats them, and then after this a proper tightening then sets it to go. Is that normal?
It's a weird thing to be talking about on SB. But yeh saw chain stretches a bit at first after that it's all down to use and abuse
This is example , proof of what I suspected.Electric sharpener is maybe quick and easy but take too much of the tooth.
I look closely on the video and it seems that grinder take almost 1/4 or the each tooth.
It could be also operator inexperience, but anyway hand file will be much safer for chain, to last longer.
Select to expand quoteIan K said..Macroscien said..
With all respect, this time that dropping chain is regardless how much tension is on.
Cutting trough thin but hard bushes cause sometimes strong lateral force that pull the chain off that bar.
you run chainsaw in horizontal position to cut bunch of thin , springy bunch and one of those sticks is taking chain off the bar.
We may need completely new mechanism to run chain on the track instead of the grove to absolutely prevent such accident.
Possibly already done , made somewhere as most of the things that I do invent myself. But never saw such bars or chains on the market.
It could be promoted as special bar, chain to cut trough bushes rather then tree trunks. Few minutes swap and a lot of time and nerves saved.
this is how I do imagine cross section of bush capable chainsaw bar
That's what we found. A tighter chain is the first thing you think of, but nah doesn't help. Chainsaws weren't designed for cutting through a tangle of small stems but of all the alternatives they are best. Getting the revs up before hitting the tangle seems to help. The tooth being wider than the depth gauge might cause them to catch on a narrow stem taken at an angle. Wider depth gauges?
Yes , agree completely. High speed revs helps a bit. Most common culprit could be lowering revs when sill cutting through bushes. But again , high revs also do not guarantee success all the time. Problem is that any lateral movement could take chain off the bar. But sometimes that is not my fault because in whole bunch, some twigh in different direction and under some stress already,
One may say that chainsaw never have been designed to use like machete, but for me it is still the most effective tool to cut few km truck through bushes along the old fences.
Dense bush could be untouched by 20 years or more and now fence need fixing all the way.
So maybe we should call my bar/chain design Power Machete?
I know guys that can use those electric types, bench mounted or not, sharpeners and even the ones used in a drill. But I've never had any luck. They take too much off and for me find it very hard to make sure all every tooth is the same length, same angle, same curve hence curved cuts and or quick blunting of the blade let the saw do the work, don't force it
I also know guys who just use a simple file with success. But they tend to be cutting wood all the time and have developed the "knack" and a good "eye".so cant discount any method really
took me literally years to work out KISS on chain saw sharpening
I mark the smallest tooth on the chain then on one side at a time start there. Use the jig and a file in a file guide (as shown before) and the distance between the tooth and the file then remains pretty much constant, making sure each tooth is roughly the same size, curve and angle.
but I do this at home in a vice. Rather do a quick chain changeover (and roughly clean the chainsaw, especially the oil dispenser hole - and quickly lube the sprocket and bar) than piss about sharpening the chain in the bush. Takes less time for me to chain a chain that to sharpen the damn thing. You just end up having your chain go blunt half way through the next tank.
I actually run 4 chains overall to be honest same 4 chains for last 6 years. Just keep rotating them
rather grab (As Ben said) some beers and do it at home gotta clean the chain saw anyway.
thanks for the tip on keeping oil off the file Ben and also doing your rakers first (which what the flat file is for above 
). Always did the rakers last, but ya right if they are too high and uneven it's gonna affect the jig.
as far as chains falling off ... only happens if I've left it too loose. I always let the saw run, check the oil is lubing it up, then once the chain is heated up, tighten it up not too tight though, shouldn't be able to the underside of the chain much pass the bar groove - if it all. Plenty of YouTube clips on all of this. New chains might need tightening up a few times on their first use as well.
of course I have had the occasional chain catch and fall off if I haven't been concentrating and cut at a stupid angle, or it gets pinched on a big log if I haven't wedged it properly.
always scary when you feel your saw getting pinched in between a log weighing 500kg each side
i run a husky pro XP (can't rmeber the model right now), costly but you wanna hear the revs on this baby. She screams. And has lasted the distance with next to little maintenance. Personally don't think you should go cheap on a saw. They take a hammering.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..pweedas said..
Re;
"I wish somebody will design , invent a chainsaw, bar combination without chain falling off constantly."
Maaaaaate,.. they've done it already ,.. and you've got one right there,.. but you have to set it up properly.
With all respect, this time that dropping chain is regardless how much tension is on.
Cutting trough thin but hard bushes cause sometimes strong lateral force that pull the chain off that bar.
you run chainsaw in horizontal position to cut bunch of thin , springy bunch and one of those sticks is taking chain off the bar.
We may need completely new mechanism to run chain on the track instead of the grove to absolutely prevent such accident.
Possibly already done , made somewhere as most of the things that I do invent myself. But never saw such bars or chains on the market.
It could be promoted as special bar, chain to cut trough bushes rather then tree trunks. Few minutes swap and a lot of time and nerves saved.
this is how I do imagine cross section of bush capable chainsaw bar
You don't need to design anything new. You are not doing anything that lots of other people including me do often and are doing it successfully. The saw works on any angle, sideways this way or that way,.. only if you have it sideways then make sure the oil is full. The pickup is at the bottom of the tank so if there is any inverted angle then the oil will not pick up. But then who saws anything upside down?
The design already works but you have to keep it set up correctly.
You are just creating a distraction in trying to design a new wheel when the wheel has been well tested by long use.
I think you are not tightening up the bar lock properly. IT HAS TO BE LOCKED TIGHT.
The chain simply cannot jump out of the groove on the bar unless the chain stretches or the bar pulls in to allow enough slop for the chain to jump out of the groove. If the chain stretches it is a permanent stretch and will soon be wrecked. Do you have any chains that have stretched so long that you cannot adjust them tight on the bar? No? Then they are not stretching,.. the bar is rattling in,.. from not being locked tight enough.
A chain stretch is extremely unlikely. It would be wrecked in a day if this is what's happening and a tooth could not grip into a stick with enough force to do this. If you hit a steel bolt or something it might happen but otherwise not.
They will slowly wear with use but not in a day or a week. If the chain is continually coming loose it is not wear or stretching. It is the bar creeping in. KEEP THE BAR LOCKED TIGHT and keep an eye on it that it remains tight. Almost certainly that it the problem.
I think you are tightening the chain up ok but not locking the bar securely. The chatter on the chain while cutting small scrub and sticks quickly chatters the bar back in allowing the chain to drop off.
Keep in mind the bar is well oiled and is only held in position by the friction between two smooth oiled surfaces. You need the bar lock very tight!
All this assumes that you have checked that the oil feed is working.
Oh,. and did I mention,.. KEEP THE BAR LOCKED TIGHT and,.. ummm oh yes,.. IT HAS TO BE LOCKED TIGHT.
When tightening the chain or sharpening it, turn the chainsaw upside down and put on a flat surface to do the work, when you tighten up the bar like that, it will keep the chain tighter and at the tension you want for longer.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
This is example , proof of what I suspected.Electric sharpener is maybe quick and easy but take too much of the tooth.
I look closely on the video and it seems that grinder take almost 1/4 or the each tooth.
It could be also operator inexperience, but anyway hand file will be much safer for chain, to last longer.
so this one seems to be resonable purchase for me
or electric but made by Stihl that have quite good review
did anybody try this one Quick or Super Sharp?
the 2 in 0ne files are really good for constant sharpening between fuel up. not convinced on the little electric unit as the files blunt really fast . the bench unit pictured at top are awesome for correcting daily filing and resetting angles. you can take off the tinniest bit to correct the tooth .if its taking too much off you are f=doing it wrong!!!!. It doesn't do the depth guides so you have to do them separately
Select to expand quotemyusernam said..
just watched that video to see why and how. its not just the sharpener, ya gotta have the bar and the different type of chain. . interesting that they only showed small saws cutting tiny bits of softwood. since oregon started selling through cheaper quality outlets and products the quality of their bars and chains has really gone down, so it would be an interesting exercise to do a decent comparative test with this setup on some nice soft jarrah
Oregon Power sharp is a different type of chain and only sharpens the top of the tooth, no good for hard wood. Also you need the special bar as well. The Stihl 2 in 1 files are good as you file the depth gauge at the same time. Quick sharp are ok as long as you don't over heat the teeth when using it. The normal files with the metal holder do a good job. Tungsten are very good for dirty timber with abrasive crap in them but they have to be sharpened with the correct disc on a grinder. The teeth are more brittle than normal chain and can break. People tend to sharpen the teeth and don't look at the depth gauge which can cause the saw to cut at an angle if the lengths of the teeth vary a lot.
Reading this thread got me. 2 chainsaws and a polesaw currently getting heavy use.
After the huge storm Tuesday night in WA, lost a big part of the roof, and couple of trees down and huge Gum and various other massive limbs snapped off like toothpicks everywhere.
Many, many years ago I worked for an Arborist company, undertaking many huge jobs. I never climbed, stuff that. But I loved the lightweight climbing saws. I learnt all the normal discipline things and we sharpened every tank. No matter what the saw.
I just normally use a hand file without a guide, have even used the cordless drill method as SailingCorey said with success. When it works for the lightweight work I do it seems to work fine.
But come today, getting ready for more cleanup after reading this thread, I spent a bit of time thinking about my angles and rakes and perfect tension. It kept raining on me but it was going well and Then I tried a few smaller different sized gum limbs at the same time and somehow jumped the chain off.
This burred/damaged two of the bottom chain drive links, that I had to remove the chain and file the burrs back so it moved smoothly in the bar again.
Then I somehow managed to tangle the bloody chain, seeming like a bloody Rubiks cube puzzle to untangle. I hate when that happens.
Got it untangled dripping wet from rain, put back on and away we go.
It cut very poorly and I spent 5-10 seconds trying. Then I looked at the chain.
I put the chain on backwards.
Select to expand quoteWindpasser said..
Reading this thread got me. 2 chainsaws and a polesaw currently getting heavy use.
After the huge storm Tuesday night in WA, lost a big part of the roof, and couple of trees down and huge Gum and various other massive limbs snapped off like toothpicks everywhere.
Many, many years ago I worked for an Arborist company, undertaking many huge jobs. I never climbed, stuff that. But I loved the lightweight climbing saws. I learnt all the normal discipline things and we sharpened every tank. No matter what the saw.
I just normally use a hand file without a guide, have even used the cordless drill method as SailingCorey said with success. When it works for the lightweight work I do it seems to work fine.
But come today, getting ready for more cleanup after reading this thread, I spent a bit of time thinking about my angles and rakes and perfect tension. It kept raining on me but it was going well and Then I tried a few smaller different sized gum limbs at the same time and somehow jumped the chain off.
This burred/damaged two of the bottom chain drive links, that I had to remove the chain and file the burrs back so it moved smoothly in the bar again.
Then I somehow managed to tangle the bloody chain, seeming like a bloody Rubiks cube puzzle to untangle. I hate when that happens.
Got it untangled dripping wet from rain, put back on and away we go.
It cut very poorly and I spent 5-10 seconds trying. Then I looked at the chain.
I put the chain on backwards.
I like this part with tangled chain.
I wonder if some people have already such perfect skills to untangle , like a Rubik cube.
It takes me always quite a bit to untangle, making try and mistakes , getting even more knots every time. It must be somewhere good tip how to untangle in the easiest way, what to look at....
When I have frequently dropping chain while cutting bushes- this tangles take the most precious time. One may think that doing so hundred times should come with some procedure , but not, always the same quesiing and trying. I am telling - the gybing is easier then resolving knots on the chain.
The chain can make or break you. I was told to never tangle the chain.
Happens in seconds with no effort.
Please tell me an easy way to untangle it too. It only takes 1 second and you are ****ed.
It almost broke me today, then I put the chain on backwards in frustration.
I blame the rain and the workload.
ok im convinced. for an amatuer muppet like myself the sthil 2 in 1 looks like the easiest solution.
i think this guy got the wrong pitch angle read the comments
I'd like to thank all the positive response above.
it has been great reading.
I even sharpened my first chain, worked out I need a new file.
Thanks
Select to expand quotemyusernam said..
ok im convinced. for an amatuer muppet like myself the sthil 2 in 1 looks like the easiest solution.
i think this guy got the wrong pitch angle read the comments
This video is really strange.
At time 3.17 he shows a close up of the tooth on the chain he is about to sharpen.
It is clearly a square cut tooth, not a round cut. A square cut tooth has to be sharpened with a square file or on a machine.
He then sharpens the chain with his magical 2 in one sharpener.
At time 9.32 he then shows a close up of the sharpened chain and it can clearly be seen that it has been converted to a round undercut tooth.
And yet he fails to mention this? Or notice it maybe?
And more strangely, it can be seen that the depth guages have been cut downabout 2 mm . Compare the two time frames. 3.17 and 9.32
I cut them down to 1mm and most people say it's too much. But 2mm?? I think I would probably say that's too much.
I tend to think that's why the saw cuts so much faster than it did before. With a 2mm raker depth the chain will be as hungry as a wolf.
I don't have one of these sharpeners so I can't say why it ripped the rakers down so low but probably there is more to setting it up than first thought. Maybe the wrong set of files?
If you get one then check closely after you file the first tooth to see that it cuts it to the proper requirements.
Depending on how I was to use the chain I would only file the rakers maybe 2 or 3 times in the life of the chain, and again the same amount of passes with the file on each raker, one side then the other just like the cutter teeth
Select to expand quotepweedas said..myusernam said..
ok im convinced. for an amatuer muppet like myself the sthil 2 in 1 looks like the easiest solution.
i think this guy got the wrong pitch angle read the comments
This video is really strange.
At time 3.17 he shows a close up of the tooth on the chain he is about to sharpen.
It is clearly a square cut tooth, not a round cut. A square cut tooth has to be sharpened with a square file or on a machine.
He then sharpens the chain with his magical 2 in one sharpener.
At time 9.32 he then shows a close up of the sharpened chain and it can clearly be seen that it has been converted to a round undercut tooth.
And yet he fails to mention this? Or notice it maybe?
And more strangely, it can be seen that the depth guages have been cut downabout 2 mm . Compare the two time frames. 3.17 and 9.32
I cut them down to 1mm and most people say it's too much. But 2mm?? I think I would probably say that's too much.
I tend to think that's why the saw cuts so much faster than it did before. With a 2mm raker depth the chain will be as hungry as a wolf.
I don't have one of these sharpeners so I can't say why it ripped the rakers down so low but probably there is more to setting it up than first thought. Maybe the wrong set of files?
If you get one then check closely after you file the first tooth to see that it cuts it to the proper requirements.
Will be interesting to see if my small MS180 could handle 2mm depth on iron bark hard wood I have (?)
Also kick back chance will increase significantly with deeper then prescribed manufactured depth.
Then the chance of taking the chain of the bar also may increase while cutting wigs and bushes...
Select to expand quotewoko said..
Depending on how I was to use the chain I would only file the rakers maybe 2 or 3 times in the life of the chain, and again the same amount of passes with the file on each raker, one side then the other just like the cutter teeth
Yes,. me too,.. but that's because I rip them right down from the very first time. . That way I don't need to fiddle around with them every time I sharpen the chain.
