^^^ 'big bang' always said it was one spinning mass - a singularity.
after it rapidly expanded, bodies clumped together and because they flew off the same single spinning mass they MUST all spin the same way.
now IanK postulates two spinning masses that hit each other?
and 'panda says the laws of physics did not exist back then?
prove it.
The laws of physics were radically different, if they existed at all.
edit: they (the laws) break down in the same way a black hole breaks them down. Black holes, once a theoretical postulation, not hard to come by with only a little imagination, definitely exist (we now know). It's all a bit divide by zero.
How can it spin if it occupies no space? From what I understand of the model, which is vague, I can't understand how it could possibly spin, as that requires space, which didn't exist.
I think you're mistaken.
P.S. Up late? how's it goin'? 
I admit, entropy is bleak. A bit like The Road, by Cormac McCarthy. Why the characters didn't all kill themselves is beyond me. It is the most horrific story I've ever read. By far.
I suggested the movie to my dad earlier tonight as "the funniest movie of the decade. (my wife) was rolling on the floor." I hope he gets the joke before it's too late. I just mentioned it to her earlier tonight and she became somewhat despondent, and cursed me for ever suggesting we watch it. I have to agree with her.
...that may take a while.
In the meantime surely red shift is explained most easily by an expanding universe? I don't think anyone says this is 100% fact, as we obviously can't know for sure with all our current technology and data. The theory is simply the most probable.
An expanding universe would create a red shift in both light and energy. Which is what we observe. Cosmologists are simply drawn to its simplicity.
In laymans' terms; what's an alternate theory? I don't pretend to understand anything in the above link.
Ok I am a little bit thirsty so I will have that v-beer for myself....
Now is time to reveal to receipt how to build The Time Machine.
I will be surprised its there is only one way that Time Machine works so I will disclose the simplest one:
Remember that cat sitting in the box?
We don't know dead or alive? ?
How to predict outcome?
Well, nothing easier then create conditions that cat must be dead anyway.
Translate to the science bit: 
For supposedly random quantum status in sequential order that result follow the cause not otherwise we create condition for preferential treatment of desired result in order to enforce cause to comply.
Don't worry guys if you don't have a clue what I am talking about... this message was for that guy 300 years younger then you now...
Now what ? Just wait few centuries to see the seed growing...
but obviously I am open for critic , because if something if fundamentally wrong, will not germinate...and we just waste next few hundred years....
throw any equation to prove me wrong or shut up....
^^^^
Bloody hell, now we are back to page 2 or something.
The (maybe) observed change in c - ignored by most so maybe it is not true. But you are unaware of it?? And argue so strongly for it being constant ...?
www.newscientist.com/article/dn6092-speed-of-light-may-have-changed-recently/?ignored=irrelevant
opfocus.org/index.php?topic=story&v=8&s=4
Sh!t, it goes on and on. But hey, if you think it "must be creationist claptrap" you won't read it.
Go back to the 33 really damn smart people arguing their contrary research is ignored. That should surely be enough for you fellas to at least read a BIT of it.
Dark matter is necessary as a rapid expansion and many years REQUIRES and almost even disperion of matter. The "clumps" and everythign observed requires more mass than there really is.
So somebody proposed "dark matter" and it was LATCHED ONTO BY ALL.
If I said the sky appears blue because I have a handful of sh!t you can't see, you would say I am crazy. But you are happy to believe red shift is caused by expansion, which can only be AS WE SEE IT NOW if we have imaginary dark matter.
Hmmm.
"The mark of an educated mind is to entertain a theory without accepting it"
-Aristotle
EDIT: yes, rense.com is full of all kinds of sh!te.
It is very telling that an article and letter, published in a MAJOR scientifiec publication ONLY 8 YRS AGO can now only be found online at rense.com.
And you reckon contrary theories are not buried? This is 33 of the best and brightest making a verifiable peer-reviewed claim and only 8yrs later it is buried. 
The Big Bang Theory is the current, most likely theory. All the maybes and so forth fit in perfectly with it being the most likely. There are plenty of theories that are simply the best ones we have, and fit some of the gaps in our knowledge. There is even some overlap.
However, there is no unified theory. i.e. the final answer =
It's really that boring.
If it is endless
and it is expanding...
what is it expanding into....?
just wondering.
And if red shift is the only reason we reckon it is getting bigger, well fk me that is just dumb. Truly.
OK that is me being abrasive deliberately but it does highlight how cosmology and theoretical physics is maybe about faith, religion and hypothesis more than empirical observation ... well, more than (pretty much) every other field of science is.
If my surgeon last month ascribed to the priinciples of "science" as practiced by cosmologists, he'd have not got near me with a blade !!!!
Well, well ,well. Guess what we are going to learn today?
We are going to learn today why the BIGBANG is the biggest hoax ever ?!!!
Why?
Bacause never actually exploded. It is sill still strong and massive big lead leaden ball that never did exploded.
Seems solid, but super liquid same time like a mercury drop.
What just only happen some time ago, lets say 14 billions to be accurate, when our universe developed ?
Tiny , softy spot inside and since then starts molding and rotting from inside.
What we think is hard and strong is actually weak and soft in this solid structure.
What you think is the force the keep all our staff together is actually the repealing force from the structure that are squeeze us and what to rid off, one may say...
Did you ever windsurf or kite surf for example?
You know that the faster you go the bigger resistance your fin has to cut the water. Same here.
The faster you go throught this “ supposedly” empty cosmos, because you are cutting though this solid, immense dense structure.
So Einstein did said.
The faster you go the more difficult it is.
At some stage and speed you need to drag all this solid ball with you which means infinite energy (almost) .
Scientist scratch for years why gravity force is so different to other forces.
Easy like that.
Since some forces are pulling things together, gravity actually is external force the repeal this think from outside...
Imagine such nice appetite Nectarine.
But there are two mold spots inside, they grow and they collapse into bigger niche. Even light will drop to soft spot.
Mold inside our Big steel solid ball is growing so our Universe ...and we with our Sun just a small bubbles inside in this journey from the center to the ball surface.
The closest to surface the pressure inside that mercury drop drops and our bubbles getting bigger by day.
Everything they told you at school is just opposite.
What is solid and heavy is actually empty inside. What seems to be empty is full of stuff.
Crap... one day we could reach that surface..
.I don't even want to think about that....unless there will some fresh air to breathe.
...
*
Attempt 1 *
When you look at creationism at the time it was invented it looks very workable for us from nowadays perspective.
All this primitive humans perceive was: blue sky above, shiny water and green grass around, reasonable size creatures jumping around, few plants for the background.
Take some CGI and you could crate whole world like that in no time at all.
As we keep growing our knowledge so our universe is growing.
Now you have to replicate everything in deep details. Down to the microbe and virus level, go to the single atom and below..... Fortunately that is where CGI processing power breaks down. Get a quantum and computer is stack....
Same in another direction, go beyond horizon, leave the planet, go beyond and read the letters on the universe walls... and bump there is the processing border...nothing beyond 15 billion years and nothing beyond the further galactic....
Till the creator upgrade chipset in his computer we are safe here don't have to be bothered to try to understand what is beyond.....
So everything looks easy and quite probable so far.
Until we hit that real solid wall.
If The Big Programmers inbuilt the artificial limit on what their creation is able to perceive and understand about them self and surroundings....
If we are pre-programmed to limit level of our understanding or conscience we could always try old good method..... try to hack it .....
* to prove creationism
Attempt 2.
Now The Creator has Two methods to implement and control his experiments.
1) He could listen, watch and feel of every aspect of of his creation;
Ie he could sense and enjoy the thrill you have surfing the shiny surface of liquid oxygen and hydrogen mix (he created),
He could feel the excitement of that young girl sitting on the beach watching you surfing in the light of last photon of the thermonuclear reactor over horizon..(he created)...
Down to the level of sensation of happiness and fulfilment of small protozoa digesting a piece of protein in your guts
He could sense, feel and understand every single creature
OR
2) He just created a big Petri dish and just sit and watch that mold growing.
He could zoom his microscope to watch that microbes and smack them from time to time with his laser gun in order to clean the colony of the nastiness.
All we could do is pray that he misses us in the process.
You know what ......
I would do with Petri Dish Nr Earh01
if I was The Creator ? *
Foremost I will cover it with double thick glass to separate it from the rest of the cosmos.
To make sure that infection doesn't spread....
This small creatures living on this wonderful, unique Petri dish do nothing esle almost all the time but killing themselves, eating resources as there is no tomorrow, and poisoning their Petri dish in uncomparable rate.....
Simply not the model that we what to spread across the Universe.
There is no guarantie that this small nastiest will treat any other civilization in other way they treat them self 
So do you:
- allow them to get a trip to nearest Andromeda people only to learn half a century later the this Humans killed 90 % of Andromeda population already, eaten most of their Planto-animals , and then dumped here toxic waste from their own planet
-or rather you will smack the first human interplanetary effort in half way with you laser gun and jamm the radio communication to external world till
-the humanoid civilization miraculously ( and fast) mutate them self to the one that could sustain their own existence in first place ?
Without the need to sacrifice virgin intergalactic lands
disclaimer
* which one I am obviously not
