Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Killer Kids....WHY ?

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Created by j murray > 9 months ago, 10 May 2009
j murray
SA, 947 posts
22 May 2009 10:06AM
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Another four killed
This morning around 3/30am Ceduna S.A.
4 young local men killed when holden hits tree, wasted,
as info is released the pattern will be seen

easty
TAS, 2213 posts
22 May 2009 10:40AM
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Another 3 near Hobart late yesterday - seen doing around 100 in a 50 zone, left road and met trees. No info on ages yet, but I'd bet left testicle they were under 25. Waste.

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
22 May 2009 8:46AM
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Wannabe said...

noels said...

Sailhack said...

I blame the parents (as a parent myself I take responsibility!)

It comes down to one word...(Aretha Franklin sang it best!)

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

- for others
- for your elders
- for the law
- for your environment
- for your parents

and most importantly, the biggest one that is missing in this generation

- for yourself!

Too many kids are not taught that, and the role models they look up to are selling them short. Unfortunately the heroes these days are the ones that make the news for the wrong reasons...also, the kids don't have enough self-respect to seperate themselves from bad influences, which generally are the cause of these tragedies.


How can you possibly blame the parents?
I don't know how old your kids are, but my youngest is 24 and he thinks that he is bullet proof. It doesn't seem to matter what we say, because he always knows best. And yes, he has no respect for the law but that is not any fault of ours because we have taught our kids right from wrong. Maybe they shouldn't let people under 30 drive V'8s or V'6s but make them drive 4 cylinder cars until they learn how to handle a vehicle in a situation.


A lotus exige is a 4 cyl. There isnt much that'll give it a run for its money, less once you throw in a few corners.


Out of the price range of most but good point.

j murray
SA, 947 posts
22 May 2009 10:37AM
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Its happening....seems like, Thursday night, Everyones got money...lets, do it

j murray
SA, 947 posts
28 May 2009 1:16PM
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again......... last evening 19yo male into tree, lone occupant

j murray
SA, 947 posts
31 May 2009 6:09AM
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More needless carnage.....
Sat morning 1.30am a heap of young blokes entre a garage and take an old falcon being worked on. partying . fulla dutch courage and meybe some weed or other, feelum good time stuff. Speed ,alcohol, no lights, bad decisions, peer pressure. They wind it all around a powerpole. Two die almost imediately, other injury's. They were mates at a birthday party. Loss of life....LOL..LOL..not needed.

Also young 16 yo bloke out with young lady, manages to put car into big tree, young lady, her life is destroyed, fighting for just her life, in coma, if she comes out of it will she have a life as she was entitled too and expecting, wasted

Mobydisc
NSW, 9029 posts
31 May 2009 10:33AM
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I know you can make statistics to say anything but the stats in NSW tell us the following:

The number of road fatalities per 100,000 people has been below 10 since 1996.
Between 1951 and 1982 the number of fatalities per 100,000 people was over 20.

The number of road kills per 100,000 people peaked in 1978 and has been dropping since.

Its pretty unlikely human behaviour has changed all that much in the last 30 years. Old farts were complaining about how stupid and disrepectful kids were 3000 years ago.

What has changed are laws relating to seatbelts and drink driving, along with generally safer cars and roads.

There were killer kids back in the good old days as there will be killer kids in 100 years time.


j murray
SA, 947 posts
2 Jun 2009 9:36AM
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And another, 6.30 last evening, 19 yo male into a tree, deceased, major arterial straight access rd into Adelaide. I wonder if it were one of those kid racers who when you drive that road they weave in and out the lanes at about one third faster than the speed of the traffic flow.

Where are you going,young fella,
What,s going on in your head?
Is it a game that you play.
as you speed to your appointment with death.?

busterwa
3777 posts
2 Jun 2009 8:59AM
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Well if the old farts and slow drivers had respect and decided to get over in the old farts lane and not be so inconciderate mabe some drivers couyld even travel in a staight line with out flutuating there speed
/Whats the use of cruise control when the person in front cant drive
some people deserve to die on the roads.
There just as many dumb slow drivers as there is speeders.
some people are born dumb and they should drive slow so when they do hit somthn they dont die.
These drivers are dumb and will have accidents what ever the speed

firiebob
WA, 3145 posts
2 Jun 2009 10:32AM
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j murray said...

And another, 6.30 last evening, 19 yo male into a tree, deceased, major arterial straight access rd into Adelaide. I wonder if it were one of those kid racers who when you drive that road they weave in and out the lanes at about one third faster than the speed of the traffic flow.

Where are you going,young fella,
What,s going on in your head?
Is it a game that you play.
as you speed to your appointment with death.?


Give it a break, you wouldn't have a clue why that happened, give some respect to family and friends.
It's not just young fellas who hit trees and it can happen for lots of reasons.

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
2 Jun 2009 12:43PM
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Mobydisc said...
The number of road kills per 100,000 people peaked in 1978 and has been dropping since.


The reason for that:



j murray
SA, 947 posts
7 Jun 2009 8:57AM
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the next one has occurred in this state. Sadly the passenger was killed, his mate ,the driver shot thru. Three others injured

FormulaNova
WA, 14652 posts
7 Jun 2009 7:36AM
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j murray said...

the next one has occurred in this state. Sadly the passenger was killed, his mate ,the driver shot thru. Three others injured


Joe we appreciate you are concerned about the number of road deaths. I think most of the people on this forum understand that there are a lot, but a lot of people on this forum are unlikely to fall into that demographic.

The thing about windsurfing is you seem to give up a lot of other hobbies to go sailing instead. I don't think I can afford to spend money on cars after spending it on windsurfing gear! I think kiters fall into the same group in that their main sport is kiting and a car is just a way to get to the water.

Instead of giving a running tally, why do you think there are so many car accidents in SA with young kids? How would you solve the problem?

Gizmo
SA, 2865 posts
7 Jun 2009 10:50AM
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FormulaNova said...

Instead of giving a running tally, why do you think there are so many car accidents in SA with young kids? How would you solve the problem?



How to solve the problem?...."keep it in the faces of the community" untill it becomes uncomfortable, buy brushing it under the carpet and ignoring the problem doesn't stop it happening it just makes it "out of site out of mind"
Its going to take a serious "accident" involving a Snr. politicians family before things get done..

FormulaNova
WA, 14652 posts
7 Jun 2009 9:43AM
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Gizmo said...

FormulaNova said...

Instead of giving a running tally, why do you think there are so many car accidents in SA with young kids? How would you solve the problem?



How to slove the problem?...."keep it in the faces of the community" untill it becomes uncomfortable, buy brushing it under the carpet and ignoring the problem doesn't stop it happening it just makes it "out of site out of mind"
Its going to take a serious "accident" involving a Snr. politicians family before things get done..




Gizmo, when I was asking how to solve the problem, I was hoping for something more direct than letting someone else solve it by trying to put pressure on them. That is a good way to do nothing about it though.

I think it has been established that people go through different ways of thinking at different ages. I think this type of risk taking behavior is just a part of that age group.

I am not saying its acceptable, but I think the problem needs a more pragmatic solution than hoping someone takes notice.

Are there any common factors to these crashes? Is there a way to reduce these factors?



Gizmo
SA, 2865 posts
7 Jun 2009 11:58AM
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FormulaNova said...

Are there any common factors to these crashes? Is there a way to reduce these factors?


YES there are many common factors, and they are the age of the drivers, the speed of the cars, and the risky behaviour....

One person alone can't change the situation it takes a concerned community to change the mindset of those involved.....

j murray
SA, 947 posts
7 Jun 2009 2:05PM
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all involved here .this is a forum for discussion, sorta mens/womens business and i think that by keeping up with the problem, some , some people may find of benefit. Enough to give it a thought. Even us brash beachys have done some ill conceived things.
I don't wish to give a morbid count, i wish there were no count. I would have thought that some bright youngsters associated with these forums may have some interesting input into why. I think the discussion has been interesting up to this point.
The way i look at it is that if we [the people] are concerned and wondering what could be the problem, actual cause of this epidemic. It will show others who read and don't post and there could be string pullers doing this. that we , the beachy type of Aussie blokes and girls are concerned, so then the hidden readers and watchers may or may not discuss this with their circle of friends and acquaintances. Power to the forum !

farqua
QLD, 15 posts
7 Jun 2009 3:04PM
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Power to you Joe, put it in their face. I see too much of it in my job and anything that can be done to prevent it is all good! The evidence that I have seen has pointed to young (and sometimes old) drivers using our roads as a race track, laying their motorbikes over like Mick Doohan through the bends or drifting like they're in Tokyo. People need to learn that the roads are for everybody, show some R E S P E C T and use the roads for what they are intended - getting from A to B. I agree that parents teach respect and sometimes stupid breeds stupid.

j murray
SA, 947 posts
12 Jun 2009 11:08AM
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Is South Australia the state of Australia where you have the greatest chance of dying in a fatal traffic related incident? Stats that were added to last evening, 18yo. It would seem to indicate that this is a rising problem. Passengers in cars are suffering as much as the drivers. So are their friends. The death toll in S.A. is near double of this time last year. Be careful if you enter upon our roads here.
Should drivers of crashing cars be obliged to crash the drivers side of the vehicle into the stobie poles and trees instead of the passenger side. Could we make this legislation. Give the world your ideas thru this forum. The legislators are looking out for ideas from outside the circle, watching .

FormulaNova
WA, 14652 posts
12 Jun 2009 2:45PM
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j murray said...

Is South Australia the state of Australia where you have the greatest chance of dying in a fatal traffic related incident? Stats that were added to last evening, 18yo. It would seem to indicate that this is a rising problem. Passengers in cars are suffering as much as the drivers. So are their friends. The death toll in S.A. is near double of this time last year. Be careful if you enter upon our roads here.
Should drivers of crashing cars be obliged to crash the drivers side of the vehicle into the stobie poles and trees instead of the passenger side. Could we make this legislation. Give the world your ideas thru this forum. The legislators are looking out for ideas from outside the circle, watching .


I haven't seen any of SA other than a short trip to Adelaide, but you mentioned there was a fatality near Ceduna. Are the guys there just bored and the only thing for them to do that is interesting is to have a drink and go for a drive?

I think you realize that in a lot of accidents it is the passenger side of the car that fares worse just because it is closer to the side of the road and the driver has more tarmac on his side to get out of trouble if he strays across the road.

Unfortunately, the passengers have to accept that they are placing their trust in the driver and as such have to wear some of the responsibility.

If you wanted a direct answer to your question on how to try and resolve the problem, give young people low powered cars while they are in the years where risk taking is at its worst. Of course this doesn't help anyone that decides they want to drive something faster.

Give them all 2litre automatic econovans! With half a tonne of firewood in the back.

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
12 Jun 2009 2:59PM
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Kids will be kids good luck in changing that!!

cisco
QLD, 12325 posts
13 Jun 2009 2:21AM
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Let's all admit it folks. SPEEDING IS TOTAL FUN!!!

When I am screaming down a beach in my land yacht on the fine edge of control, and the slightest mistake means I can out big time, I am totally LOVING IT.

When a surfer catches a big wave and is screaming along the face of it on the fine edge of control, and knows the slightest mistake will mean a huge can out, he is totally LOVING IT.

Kite/wind surfing, stand up paddle, land kiting, sailing, car and motor bike racing, all of them are things we do to satisfy our "Need for Speed" and we all like to show off a bit, ie be the winner.

So let's all accept that the "Need for Speed" is a part of human nature and needs to have suitable outlets.

Public roads are obviously not a suitable outlet place.

Three concepts to consider:-
1. Provide suitable venues for the desired outlet activity.
2. Redirect the need into other activities.
3. Combine both of the previous.
Cheers Cisco.

Haircut
QLD, 6481 posts
13 Jun 2009 11:00AM
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SE queensland sure is a great place to live, but seems to be the redneck capital when it comes to road safety, or safety in general

if a native southeast queenslander drove in australia's far southern states the way they do in qld, they'd either be broke very quickly from fines, have black eyes from copping a 1 2 because they were tailgating or not indicating, or dead very quickly because of the terrible winter road conditions

the highly predictable and reliable weather here is probably what's balancing out the road statistics for qld

Jaydub
WA, 1 posts
13 Jun 2009 11:58AM
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Well sadly common sense ain't common, so trying to educate people is only going to have so much impact. So added to education, here's a few suggestions about how this waste and carnage could be cut back quite a bit:

1. Fit a speed immobiliser to existing cars and have the manufacturing industry make it standard in new cars, to ensure they don't go faster than 120km. That still gives a bit extra over the speed limit for overtaking, but will stop some of the horror high speed crashes.

2. Fit every car with a "blow-under-the-limit-or-it-won't-start" immobiliser. Yeah, I know, you can always get a sober person to blow, but it will help.

3. Take away anyone's license caught DUI for good - that might be a bit more a preventative than what is currently being dished out as punishment. Ok, maybe give it back when that person reaches 30 if they are younger than 25 - we are all supposed, after all, to learn from our mistakes. The older ones should've known better though - sucked in.

4. Get rid of all the distractions in cars: simplify ipod docking thingos and other music gizmos in cars - on/off/next/back and that's it, no searching through a digital screen for your favourite song instead of watching the road...;
dvd movies (??? how the hell did our parents entertain us...oh yeah, that's right, they didn't, we entertained ourselves...);
fit "mobile phone blockers" into the car body somehow, texting and driving should NEVER be allowed to happen! To all you knockers of not having the luxury of your mobile in the car, or passengers losing their right to use their phone...get over it. We used to use phone boxes or wait till we got home... There's still the option to pull over and get out anyway.

I could probably think up more, but I'm off outside now to breathe a bit of fresh air and enjoy the slow life :) Will be interesting to come back and see what people think...



Danger Mouse
WA, 592 posts
15 Jun 2009 1:32PM
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555 said...

The V8/V6 idea is irrelevant.

We mostly see Japanese cars here.. almost all 4 cylinders. Many of them (even bog standard) are capable of cleaning up an aussie V8 - especially if you put some decent corners into the equation. Most of the 'lads' aren't even interested in the sixes or eights. Too heavy, too thirsty, and to be frank, without some serious money on suspension, they handle like a boat.

By the time you have a 2 litre engine, and some testosterone, you have a problem.

A solution posed here (and immediately shouted down) was to restrict young drivers to non-turbo engines of two litres or less.

Personally, I think it's all about having an outlet, and a sense of community. Young men have a need to get their energy out/adrenaline fix. Without the need to hunt, fight, or perform physical work to survive, that energy goes miss-directed.

That's where sport is meant to come into it.. but with all the P.C. namby pamby cotton-wool BS that goes on these days, it's no wonder the lads are finding their own amusement. It's going to get worse before the penny drops unfortunately.


I'd say the last bit of your post is SPOT ON 555, I think the fact that the V8s don't handle as well would exacerbate the problem though. I own a VY SS Ute and in the wrong hands (an adrenaline-flooded teen), especially with a bit of rain added to the equasion it would simply be a matter of time before it all ended in tears. Not saying that them driving a 4 fixes the problem, but I do think it lessens it even if only maginally.

D

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
15 Jun 2009 3:55PM
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Darwins theory of natural selection is at work here I think. The week die and the stronger well get stronger. Or the smart ones live the dumb ones die, its quiet simple really!!

Danger Mouse
WA, 592 posts
15 Jun 2009 4:17PM
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doggie said...

Darwins theory of natural selection is at work here I think. The week die and the stronger well get stronger. Or the smart ones live the dumb ones die, its quiet simple really!!


Somewhat yes, the part that I have the biggest problem with is when someone else ends up dying or having to live the rest of thier life suffering due to the actions of some little inconsiderate pr**k. It's even worse when they get off with a slap on the wrists for it too. I think stiffer penalties (be it car crushing or whatever) need to be implemented. The justice system here has gone soft along with a the greater part of society with it's "I don't want to get involved because it's not affecting me at the moment" attitude. If a dog pees in the house and it gets it's nose rubbed in it and told off a few times, the dog associates peeing in the house with unpleasantness and a bad outcome for itself and the average dog is as intelligent as a what, 2-3 year old child? Of course if the adolescents in our society don't have anything bad (or bad enough to change thier minds) happen to them as a result of thier unacceptable actions, then they aren't going to have the motivation to change thier behaviour are they? Many parents today have a lot to answer for too in my mind with them expecting the idiot box and school teachers to raise thier kids for them because they are too busy doing what they want in life. If people don't want to take the time to raise thier kids properly don't have them (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone that's made a previous post on this topic here just for reference).

Rant over,

D

FormulaNova
WA, 14652 posts
15 Jun 2009 4:40PM
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doggie said...

Darwins theory of natural selection is at work here I think. The week die and the stronger well get stronger. Or the smart ones live the dumb ones die, its quiet simple really!!


The only problem with your suggestion is that the same people that take high risks with driving might just be the same as those that are taking a lot of risks in other areas and you don't need to be a genius to have kids.

It's not so simple when you look at it. Maybe the 'dumb ones' are having many more kids and will result in a larger 'dumb' population?

doggie
WA, 15849 posts
15 Jun 2009 5:10PM
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It wasnt a sugestion its fact...

FormulaNova
WA, 14652 posts
15 Jun 2009 5:17PM
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doggie said...

It wasnt a sugestion its fact...


That's the great thing about facts; someone has to look at the logic and work out how something has happened.

I think your 'fact' has a few holes in it's application.



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"Killer Kids....WHY ?" started by j murray