Select to expand quotejapie said..
Hey Macro watch this lecture by Jacques Fresco and his missus. In my opinion one of the worlds greatest thinkers who proposes real solutions to the worlds problems:
A great thinker indeed.
Capitalism, politicians and the Disney crap will become extinct too. Only a matter of time.
One more about world without the money Fresco imagined.
www.thevenusproject.com/meet-the-venus-project-people-preparing-for-the-day-when-money-will-be-meaningless/?fbclid=IwAR2bTEDW84wJSDjn_svNvqrPuEPRvPEsz7go838ND1tKgOWJWWrvQQx4jUI
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..japie said..
Hey Macro watch this lecture by Jacques Fresco and his missus. In my opinion one of the worlds greatest thinkers who proposes real solutions to the worlds problems:
Hey Japie.
I did watch the lot,
and have now to say only. I could not agree....
more.
The guy is right.
But that truth hurts and most on people couldn't stand it. Even if he( others like him) succeed in Venus project somewhere , all the rest of the world will conspire to build the biggest atom bomb ever and wipe utopian society of the Earth ( or Mars) surface.
We have as small test here on SB.
One can not stand a fact that others had some ideas on another nothing at all.
Lets look how the world works , right now.
If USA is loosing on all fronts right now: education, access to social services, manufacturing, public safety, food production, energy sector against China, Sweden, Brasil Russia even Australia and NZ - their main goal is not to improve himself, increase competitiveness, restore balance- but rather sanction competition overseas, bomb nations to the dust, spray viruses over, corrupt elite politician at any nation to corroborate, or just turn others against each other. To ruin competition, not to rise over it.
Even if AI from Franchesqui utopian world come to fruition- they will be used not to create and magege perfect society but subdue existing one and most likely ensure control of the few over the rest.
As a test of concept we could look at Israel.
Country/nation by design.
They should/ could achieve everything having unlimited financial resources, very smart people indeed and hard working. Somehow serve as a failed state example- maybe due to not only internal matters but external brainless opposition.
But the biggest test of Francesco ideas is coming.
Elon Musk is going to build new society on the Mars. Beside technical aspect , how to get people there ( which seems to be relatively easy problem to resolve) we don't have the slightest idea How Elon Martians is going to organize themselves ?! If Elon becomes a King or what level of democracy is planned? What currency they will use? How soon Earth forces will attempt to bomb Martian bunkers forcing them to protect themselves in return? How to force people to work?
If we eliminate money , everything is available for free. How to force people to work or do something useful at all?
Well , maybe work as a privilege not obligation? If anything , everything could be done by machines , why not to create situation where doing something more or less prosaic will be desirable variety for bored citizens? If you allow somebody to swipe to footpath? In clean city there is very limited amount of dust , rubbish, empty bottles on the street.
This precious activity may not be available for everybody and for a long.
Want to cut a tree or dig a trench with shovel? Need a special permit and work can be awarded for good behaviour only.Love firefighting in the place where nothing is burning spontaneously? Prison guard or policeman job ?
In this perfect society you may watch movies or play endlessly video games for free, But to do something for real will be hard to get your hands on.
I enjoy that amazon prime series ... expanse.
I find it very tangible in that we will just take our human dysfunctions into space and the inevitable war, poverty etc etc.
Select to expand quoteholy guacamole said..
Capitalism [..] will become extinct too. Only a matter of time.
To be replaced by ... what? Or are you being sarcastic?
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
One more about world without the money Fresco imagined.
www.thevenusproject.com/meet-the-venus-project-people-preparing-for-the-day-when-money-will-be-meaningless/?fbclid=IwAR2bTEDW84wJSDjn_svNvqrPuEPRvPEsz7go838ND1tKgOWJWWrvQQx4jUI
That's a great example of how you can look at a problem and see completely the wrong thing /rolleyes
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..To be replaced by ... what? Or are you being sarcastic?holy guacamole said..
Capitalism [..] will become extinct too. Only a matter of time.
You didn't listen to the lecture or bother to research further did you?
Replaced by a modern version of how humans lived for tens of thousands of years but with free technology and resources managed and shared by all.
Capitalism and communism are the flip sides of the same evil coin. One turns every human into a mindless consumer jealous of everyone who has more consumables than they do, and the other into a mindless labourer who doesn't know any better and is taught to hate the capitalist. High knowledge is a secret held close by the totalitarian state in the communist system and by the corrupt corporate entities and the military industrial complex in the capitalist system. Both evil systems claim "national security" to justify the maintenance of their most secretive knowledge, power and privilege.
Belief that the current system of capitalism will last forever is nuts. Nothing lasts. Humans will evolve beyond the stupidity of capitalism, either out of necessity, through economic collapse or environmental catastrophe. Capitalists believe the world's resources are infinite, which is quackery and that patented and trademarked technology will save us from any problem.
This is total stupidity, since the earth is clearly a finite resource and technology alone cannot save us from any problem. If it could, there wouldn't be wars, starving children, disease and religion etc.
Capitalism is here to stay
I'll borrow the words of the greatest leader of all time: Australia "will never be a socialist country"
Jealously is your problem, not mine
Solar Vs nuclear, do you want the lights on at night, then neclear is the only technology that can deliver this
Select to expand quoteTonyAbbott said..
Capitalism is here to stay
I'll borrow the words of the greatest leader of all time: Australia "will never be a socialist country"
Jealously is your problem, not mine
The subject of the thesis we're discussing is not socialism. Obviously you didn't spend more then five seconds on it either. 
As for you absolute gospel certainty about capitalism and so called "jealousy", good luck with that. 
Nothing lasts. NOTHING
Hi Little Jon, from a residential perspective
We took a punt & put the max. solar on the roof 4-5 years ago, the decision was purely financial & nothing to do with politics or attempted environmentalism. By all accounts the install paid for itself 6mnths ago. We have and will continue to spend approx $150 on maintenance, cleaning etc... every 18mnths. With 3, occasionally up to 6, adults with AC but no pool, our last power bill was $8.39 with a 10% pay on time discount, no subsidies involved (missed that boat) and credits from pumping into the grid. Financially it has been a very good decision to reduce our household budget.
Keeping the lights on at night? Interestingly as result of having solar we have changed our habits over time. We now don't watch much TV, do chores or even cook at night now. We have started to eat twice a day, usually not cooking or eating much after 3-4pm, night time is mainly reading and getting together with neighbors, family, friends etc... so very light electrical usage and mostly use a few wind-up lights. One of the house sized batteries maybe an option but I'm not convinced about the end of life safety or secondary use of big batteries. As for an old solar system, I believe it will have a lesser effect on the environment than spent nuclear rods. At this stage chatting & reading by candle light is kinda cool (no idea about the emissions as a result!) only mod-con issue is the fridge. Am working on that with the idea of solar/daytime driven ice production & making a quality cold box. After all, gotta have cold beverage in the twilight hours!
Obviously the above scenario doesn't scale up for a metropolis or big industry/business at present. But if houses could be using the sun for a good portion of their power & reduce their long term financial expenditure surely its a win win that everyday people can take advantage of during the transition forward.
Select to expand quoteholy guacamole said..
You didn't listen to the lecture or bother to research further did you?
free technology and resources managed and shared by all
No I asked what YOU thought.
Oh so it's a Star Trek fantasy world.
I'm sure you indisputable sources to back up those claims about human thinking and behavior, but I just can't get past the fantasy bit...
Select to expand quoteholy guacamole said..
The subject of the thesis we're discussing is not socialism.
"resources managed and shared by all"
Sure sounds like you're discussing Socialism.
Select to expand quoteLittle Jon said..
Solar Vs nuclear, do you want the lights on at night, then neclear is the only technology that can deliver this
Battery are getting bigger and cheaper. Hydro also always can do the same. Look how things can be done now arranged to have the price right and don't worry about storage too.Should we learn now from India?
reneweconomy.com.au/bad-news-for-coal-india-lands-worlds-largest-super-cheap-solar-and-storage-tender-80682/?fbclid=IwAR3HfufuRKPNgbrnPUCtEhP23MWIE4o1eLmYHk9vr6S_xPlq87gCQTtmdZ8
Obviously that is bad news for our coal industry in Australia, but maybe also time to weak up!
One more to consider. If India can, why not we here in Australia where the Sun is brighter and land more abundant?Maybe that explanation is the in some countries money must change hands/ pockets before big deal is made. India did open auction - the cheaper bidder wins- not much room for corruption left.But for Nuclear in Australia future is blik without money changing hands. In the absence of general public acceptance the only way is to find rigth person at the helm that could pump some public money into nuclear river, while accepting some gratification on the side/ under the desk.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..holy guacamole said..
The subject of the thesis we're discussing is not socialism.
"resources managed and shared by all"
Sure sounds like you're discussing Socialism.
By that faulty logic, anything requiring sharing must be socialism. That makes the Sunday Roast or a sailing club socialist. I see your logic now.
Select to expand quoteBrent in Qld said..
Hi Little Jon, from a residential perspective
We took a punt & put the max. solar on the roof 4-5 years ago, the decision was purely financial & nothing to do with politics or attempted environmentalism. By all accounts the install paid for itself 6mnths ago. We have and will continue to spend approx $150 on maintenance, cleaning etc... every 18mnths. With 3, occasionally up to 6, adults with AC but no pool, our last power bill was $8.39 with a 10% pay on time discount, no subsidies involved (missed that boat) and credits from pumping into the grid. Financially it has been a very good decision to reduce our household budget.
Keeping the lights on at night? Interestingly as result of having solar we have changed our habits over time. We now don't watch much TV, do chores or even cook at night now. We have started to eat twice a day, usually not cooking or eating much after 3-4pm, night time is mainly reading and getting together with neighbors, family, friends etc... so very light electrical usage and mostly use a few wind-up lights. One of the house sized batteries maybe an option but I'm not convinced about the end of life safety or secondary use of big batteries. As for an old solar system, I believe it will have a lesser effect on the environment than spent nuclear rods. At this stage chatting & reading by candle light is kinda cool (no idea about the emissions as a result!) only mod-con issue is the fridge. Am working on that with the idea of solar/daytime driven ice production & making a quality cold box. After all, gotta have cold beverage in the twilight hours!
Obviously the above scenario doesn't scale up for a metropolis or big industry/business at present. But if houses could be using the sun for a good portion of their power & reduce their long term financial expenditure surely its a win win that everyday people can take advantage of during the transition forward.
It does scale up. That's what makes solar so flexible. Just look at Westfield, who will be carbon neutral very soon, mainly due to rooftop solar. For example:
www.todaesolar.com.au/resources/news/portfolio-tag/mw-solar/
